Nur Ein III- Round 5

[Ross]

Ross wrote:

Oooh, I’m a bio teacher - “the fish becomes a whale” - ouch

We had a discussion within the band about this. I didn't write the lyric, but I think it's a great one, and I'll defend it. 1st of all the sentence is "...as a fish BECOMES a whale." We're well aware of the phylum violation, we know whales are mammals, however this is a metaphor for something small becoming very large. (and the 2nd & 3rd times it's a simile "LIKE a fish..... ")

I understand that it's a metaphor, and figured you guys know the difference, I guess I was just saying that from a scienc-ey point of view, not a poetic one, I don't think its a very good metaphor. Still a good song, though! Funny to find this- I was logging in to comment on your reviews - seriously (see next post).

[Billy's Little Trip]

Ross wrote:

Oooh, I’m a bio teacher - “the fish becomes a whale” - ouch

We had a discussion within the band about this. I didn't write the lyric, but I think it's a great one, and I'll defend it. 1st of all the sentence is "...as a fish BECOMES a whale." We're well aware of the phylum violation, we know whales are mammals, however this is a metaphor for something small becoming very large. (and the 2nd & 3rd times it's a simile "LIKE a fish..... ")

It just doesn't quite roll off the tongue saying, the calf becomes a whale.
Then Ross would say, I'm a bi teacher and the calf is already a whale - oucheeez
Just goofin' with ya Rossterz.

[Ross]

Ross Durand- Did you really tune those glasses? A couple of them sound flat to me.

I hear what you're hearing, and yes, I did my best to tune them. I think this has to do in part with my choice of glass, a tall drinking glass instead of something like a wine glass. The overtones were very complex, I'd tune the thing like crazy to D and then as I played it realize it was really much more an A and have to go back. I also found that these glasses had a strange reaction to the amount of water I was adding or taking away that didn't seem to be very linear (or even a smooth curve), I would add a lot with very little change and then - boom- one spoonful would change it a bunch, almost like they had frets The water sloshing around after each hit seemed to effect them a little bit, too, in both pitch and resonance, as did the exact spot in which they were hit.

But I liked the clanky sound of the glass over a ringy sound - wanting to evoke ship equipment being tossed around in the wind and such - so in the end I think they turned out quite effectively. And I give myself points for being (as far as I can tell) the only one who used my kitchen items as a melodic instrument - they even get the solo!

[Nigel (spOOn) Clements]

Two days of solid listening to these six songs, I've made my decision made known to the rest of the panel, and will post some notes later, but I just wanted to say that whatever happens, no matter who goes through and who gets cut, you guys have created some EBFM (Exceptionally Bloody Fabulous Music) this week !

Thank you!

[Ross]

It just doesn't quite roll off the tongue saying, the calf becomes a whale.
Then Ross would say, I'm a bi teacher and the calf is already a whale - oucheeez
Just goofin' with ya Rossterz.

Right well, I couldn't really suggest a better metaphor exactly - but why would I? this is a contest after all!

how about, "...the shore foraging wolf or cow like proto-cetacean becomes the Whale?"

[Billy's Little Trip]

how about, "...the shore foraging wolf or cow like proto-cetacean becomes the Whale?"

...now you're just making up words

[Rabid Garfunkel]

"...the shore foraging wolf or cow like proto-cetacean becomes the Whale?"

Oh good grief, I've been reading that (your post) as "...the SHOE foraging wolf..."

To further muddy the metaphor, "blowhole drives the sail"? Heh.

[glennny]

I understand that it's a metaphor, and figured you guys know the difference, I guess I was just saying that from a scienc-ey point of view, not a poetic one, I don't think its a very good metaphor.

What good metaphor, or any metaphor for that matter makes good scientific sense? Doesn't it cease to be a metaphor and become a description at that point?

"I'm a gazelle" is a metaphor for me being fast. As a biology teacher, would you really pipe in"Hey you're not a gazelle, you're a human!"

I really like the lyric. "little fish" is a phrase I often use for little problem. At my job, which is mostly R&D we are constantly weighing "little fish" against "bigger fish to fry". Of course "whale" is often used for something large: "whale of a problem".

As far as the glasses went, for our track a spent a good hour tuning 4 different shaped glasses, though all of them were concentric. I adjusted the levels of water, and was surprised to find the more water I had in the glass the lower the pitch. I had assumed the opposite based on blowing air across the top of a bottle of pop, the lower the liquid level the lower the pitch. The wine glass only had a range of about 2 steps from full to empty Bb to D. So with the 4 notes and the help of a couple more hands (my friend Swillington) we were able to create chords and small melodies.

Anyway, I'll be happy to geek out about science any time. (although I'm really more of a Physics guy than Biology, hit up The Prisoner for Chemistry)

[frankie big face]

So, the competitor in me is rearing his ugly head and I am now making my solemn appeal to the judges re: the challenge.

1) I thought I came up with a clever way to incorporate the challenge, even if I did get the challenge somewhat wrong.
2) I served up TWO songs for the price of one, an unprecedented Nur Ein feat (I think), and should get bonus points (assuming you actually liked the songs).
3) If I had simply banged a pot or dinged a few glasses during the course of the song, would you have let me advance based on the quality of my song?
4) Spud said it was good enough for him and he's Spud! A fightmaster!!

Obviously, I'm nervous about the outcome based on my honest mistake of reading the challenge and then, over the course of time, omitting the last three words "as an instrument" from my recollection. I hate the idea of being DQ'd by the challenge. But either way, I'm happy with my song and I'm impressed by all the others, so I guess if I'm out, I can live with it.

Wow, I think I just went through the five stages of grief all in one post. How delightfully therapeutic!

[Ross]

What good metaphor, or any metaphor for that matter makes good scientific sense? Doesn't it cease to be a metaphor and become a description at that point?

"I'm a gazelle" is a metaphor for me being fast. As a biology teacher, would you really pipe in"Hey you're not a gazelle, you're a human!")

yes, but gazelles really are fast so the metaphor is between you and a gazelle. Fish don't really become whales, and your metaphor was not supposed to be between a fish and a whale, right?

Just fun banter!

I had the same surprise with the glasses and the pitch/water relationship. Sorry I could not tune them better for you - I'll do better next time

EDIT: by "concentri" do you mean sort of globe shaped as opposed to the cylindrical ones I used?

[jb]

I am now going to speculate on the water-glass-pitch thing without looking it up.

Sound waves are generated by matter vibrating in a medium (glass and air in this case). The speed of vibration (frequency) determines the pitch. The speed of vibration can be altered by increasing/decreasing the object's mass. When you add water to a glass, you intuitively think the pitch should go up because for some reason we associate the amount of "unfilled" glass with the tone being generated-- as if the water is a perfect muting substance. But in reality, the water controls the pitch by adding mass to the glass and making it vibrate more slowly-- lowering the pitch when struck or stroked.

This is based on one acoustics class I took in college. I look forward to someone actually looking this up and telling me if I'm correct.

JB

[Steve Durand]

You are correct jb!

The vibrations are slower as you fill the glass because of the increased mass.

[Caravan Ray]

It just doesn't quite roll off the tongue saying, the calf becomes a whale.
Then Ross would say, I'm a bi teacher and the calf is already a whale - oucheeez
Just goofin' with ya Rossterz.

Right well, I couldn't really suggest a better metaphor exactly - but why would I? this is a contest after all!

how about, "...the shore foraging wolf or cow like proto-cetacean becomes the Whale?"

I think, "the fish becomes a considerably larger fish" would work.

[glennny]

It seems as though for some reason Ross and company want to ignore the operative word "becomes" and apply some kind of boundaries to fish and whales becoming anything. This is science fiction, art, poetry, rock lyrics, there's no need to apply this logic. In the cliche "mountain out of a mole hill", would you assert that a mole hill couldn't possibly be 2000 feet above sea level? With the power of the word "becomes" one can say " a worm becomes a Studebaker", or "a plectrum becomes a gorilla". Besides when you say "a calve becomes a whale" you keep the small to big aspect of the meaning, but you lose the reference to problems or issues, that both little fish and whales share.

Listen, I'm the son of an English teacher, I spend my life telling people they meant to say "Jibe" not "Jive", as an engineer/physicist I explain to people that there's no such thing as centrifugal force, it's just inertia (gravitational and electromagnetic forces are truly forces). It is fun to feel smarter than people, but you jumped the gun on this one. (that doesn't mean that there was a gun and you jumped over it, this is a reference to a race, most likely a human foot race, and I don't need to assume you're human with feet, I've seen photos and met you in person, I'm pretty sure you have feet. When a contestant has a start where he began running before the gun was shot indicating it was indeed time to run, this is known as "jumping the gun". )

[erik]

If someone thinks that a lyric in your song is weird, do you want them to tell you?

[glennny]

Erik said:

If someone thinks that a lyric in your song is weird, do you want them to tell you?

Yes! that's what I love about Song Fight, the criticism. I also like criticizing the criticism. I tell people when I hear a weird note, I get told about many a production flaw etc. It's what it's all about. I hope I didn't come off as defensive, I was just engaging in a dialog with a well respected lyricist.

[Billy's Little Trip]

Besides when you say "a calve becomes a whale"
Listen, I'm the son of an English teacher, I spend my life telling people they meant
It is fun to feel smarter than people

That would be calf, you jibe turkey. Calve is a verb.
You can tune drinking glasses, but you can't tune a fish. ayyyy ohhh!

I'm the son of a mechanical engineer. Don't even get me started on your comment "there's no such thing as centrifugal force". Sure, it's a pseudo force and doesn't obey Newton's third law. But it is a term used to describe the replication of a real force, thus making centrifugal force a real thing, the same way that cubic zirconium are real synthetic gem stones, or pseudo diamonds. So there.

I'm sure that Ray and John will enjoy discrediting my example, lol.

[Rabid Garfunkel]

Waiting on the final tally for this round, judgerly-wise. So here's another unwelcome peek through my ears, heh.

Notes, round 5. Lyrics have been added as another metric, since a) there was the big froofraw about the importance of lyrics; b) previously they were spread across all three of my judging categories; and c) I needed more points to help spread out my rankings. On with the show.

Frankie Big Face
Had to go to lyric thread to make out words. Not what I'd thought. Gimmick/framing device doesn't work on all systems (dead air). Buzzcock's "Orgasm Addict". Where'd the diners go? Variety in music? "EEEs" in second half peaking on lesser systems. Lyrics not saying much.
Performance 3; Production 4; Pleasure 2; Lyrics 2

Glenn & Rachael
I'm having a 3 minute seizure. Relentless driving beat. Snare's got jackboots, a riding crop, and monocle on. Not a lot of contrast to itself (song). "Washed to shore" way awkward. Sounds (mix) crowded. Lesser systems lose flavor of mix.
Performance 3; Production 3; Pleasure 3; Lyrics 3

Ken Mahru
RHCP, that "Leaving the Girl" song. Melodica and glock (?). Pulling out all the SF stops, eh? Acoustic's string clicketys cancelling out drums, and making kitchen perc. big finish sound... off. What a heroic, noble fucking song.
Performance 4; Production 3; Pleasure 3; Lyrics 4

Paco del Stinko
Peter Pan goes skinny dipping. Chromatic kitchen & half step progression in bridgeys nicely trippy. Vox "Legends of yore, &c." blows on lesser systems (losing lows & mids(?) not good for yr. falsetto). Drums pretty weak under "WHAAAALE!" Pathos ≠ clean meekness.
Performance 4; Production 4; Pleasure 4; Lyrics 3

Ross Durand
Jim Croce goes to Deadwood. Hey, a story/vignette that I don't have to struggle with to make out. Thundery electric (guitar) accents/emphases could come up, lost on lesser systems. Tambourine? Sigh. /bias Backing "harmony" vox makes me wonder where the fiddle is. Mix clear -- the essential bits -- on systems of all qualities. Nice moral, even if narrator doesn't get it.
Performance 4; Production 4; Pleasure 5; Lyrics 5

The Worldly Self Assurance
Would've been nice to have the lyrics posted. Fighting the song to make them out, and make sense of them. Seems (lyrics) all over the map. Tea's up. Nice musical swelling in end, but to the same lyrics as the earlier tripping through the tulips? Seems like you're sabotaging whatever you're trying to say with the song by doing that. Music pleasant.
Performance 3; Production 4; Pleasure 3; Lyrics 2

[glennny]

Some sandwich said:

I'm the son of a mechanical engineer. Don't even get me started on your comment "there's no such thing as centrifugal force". Sure, it's a pseudo force and doesn't obey Newton's third law. But it is a term used to describe the replication of a real force, thus making centrifugal force a real thing, the same way that cubic zirconium are real synthetic gem stones, or pseudo diamonds. So there.

It's not a force! It's a real phenomenon, but "force" is a misnomer.

[glennny]

That would be calf, you jibe turkey. Calve is a verb.
You can tune drinking glasses, but you can't tune a fish. ayyyy ohhh!

Damn it! Where's my editor? He should have caught that.

[Billy's Little Trip]

Some sandwich said:

I'm the son of a mechanical engineer. Don't even get me started on your comment "there's no such thing as centrifugal force". Sure, it's a pseudo force and doesn't obey Newton's third law. But it is a term used to describe the replication of a real force, thus making centrifugal force a real thing, the same way that cubic zirconium are real synthetic gem stones, or pseudo diamonds. So there.

It's not a force! It's a real phenomenon, but "force" is a misnomer.

This is true. So I won't bother debating that fact.
.......and that's Mr. Sandwich too you! But you can call me Reuben. HaHa, a little sangwich humor there.

[Nigel (spOOn) Clements]

Thoughts and Stuff... No Offense Meant!

Frankie Big Face: The faux live stuff gets very irritating really quickly, though having read your explanation, it falls into one of those two steps back one forward kind of things, I understand why, but I still don't like it... sorry! the style of the 'first' song is very very 'Ookla the Mok' I kept wanting to sing out... "and we had sex", song 'two' is much better (musically) than the first but nowhere near as enjoyable, a genuine paradox!!! also for some reason part of my brain kept screaming 'Sex Pistols' to me (I know not why), overall this'd be a really good song without the spoken intro and middle part, with just a two beat pause between songs (I feel!).

Paco del Stinko: Beautiful story about one boy and his whale! in a couple of places you let yourself down lyrically.... but goddam you, you get away with it! that echoey ghostly noise is fabulous, I've been chanting this track all week and the demented 'whale song' outro is near perfect! Any chance of providing a tab for this? (exclude the outro though, I'll never be that good!) Release the Whale!

Glenn & Rachael: For me I found this difficult, everything was there, near perfect harmonies, great driving rhythm, excellent tale of 'tall tales'.... but for some reason, to me, it all gets a little samey!, probably if it had just opened up about three quarters through with I dunno a nice little acapella breakdown, or something else just to break up the relentlessness, though the pots n pans outro is excellent, makes the track sound a bit like a train hitting a restaurant (maybe the one Frankie was playing in?!?)

Ross Durand: Smash hit release from the much sought after album 'Ross Durand's Tales of Salty Seamen' (sorry couldn't resist!), fabulous folky sea shanty rock style, that you make seem effortless, the whole idea of slaughtering a whale to get the money to buy the ring to win the girl, but failing to kill the whale and losing the girl is just brilliant, yes this sounds familiar, this is a well trodden theme, but by christ you do it so well, you convey the tale as if it had really happened, gorgeous track.

The Worldly Self-Assurance: This was the track that started badly and grew for me, I had a difficult time really feeling the song, but I kept coming back to the outro, it's an excellent piece of work and I'm going to have to type 'Whale Song' again, after that the puzzle slotted, or should that be 'floated' together, one simple question for you guys.... Are you placing subliminal messages within these tracks?

Ken Mahru: --- Ken Vs Paco --- I never noticed it before this 'Nur Ein' (probably to my shame, because I hadn't listened much to Ken before), but you guys really sound similar, you could be the new 'Simon and Garfunkel' or should that be 'Garfunkel and Garfunkel', Such an easy to sing-a-long to song, probably because it's a touch lyrically repetative, but you pull it off majestically, kitchen utensils challenge is excellent!