Better than living next to a golf course (DLiaQP Reviews)

[tonetripper]

No need to be sorry mate. That's what makes these boards special. Ambiguity of taste and how translation creates knee jerk reaction. All is good.

[tonetripper]

Hey,
Sorry all about my late reviews. Got some computer issues that are impeding my ability to do proper reviews. So sorry about that all. Promise I'll try to get it done either way before the next fight. Lots of great tunes.

Pablo

[Leaf]

ok. I finished my reviews. Max the Cat, I liked that!

[Ross]

Ok, so I’m finally reviewing the fight I’m in this week.

I will not be reviewing production

Poor June – I like your delivery and the repeated rhythm work here. I don’t’ quite buy the transition from the verse to chorus – it’s a bit abrupt for me, but I like the contrasting styles. I don’t by the combinatorics of the verse and chorus. The layering sounds to me like an interesting idea that does not pay off especially effectively artistically. Title note: Slightly perturbed that you changed “Devils” plural to “Devil” singular – I think it would change the way one would write a song for the title. I have decided to be a title purist, so as far as voting, this is a strike – as far as art……

Kamakura – Tune same as bass line – not an especially strong approach. I am a fan of changes that involve sustenance of one element (chords) as another changes (bass). Pretty nice harmonic build out of first verse (up to contrast with down), but then it doesn’t arrive anywhere – a little like I’ve always felt about Bruckner. I think that’s how I sort of feel about the whole composition – doesn’t ever “arrive.”

Draft – The title/theme(?) is interjected as if a “non-sequiter.” As interesting as the changes are, the tune seems to be fairly uneventful except for sort of vocal ”improv” at the ends of lines. Lots of instrumental breaks for me to review the song – how good of a song is “Walkin’” for instance – depends who’s playing the solos. I like the imagery in the song, the rain asking the bartender for a drink – almost Dylanesque in a sort of early 70’s Joni Mitchell idiom. A nice song, but for the title (which is my mindset/bias at this point in this exercise) I’m not sure I am struck.

Charcoal – I think you’d find many people agree that the purpose of song is to create an emotional response – effective opening, but the tune seems pedantic compared. Lyrically I like your take, that the quiet pond is a person with a devil within – but the musical aspect of the verse doesn’t work for me. The chorus works pretty well along this line, though (thanks for posting the lyrics) and I think your structural choice to bookend the song is a good one. So far, probably leading for overall take and structure.

Max the Cat – cool groove. I like your work on repeating the last line of the first verse. I like where you go with the words – from ducks to folks. I have to admit I am a little thrown how to get from “wrapped in flags” to mafia street. I think you and I are the only ones who went for a social reference. We should have a beer some time. I like the irony of your musical choice with your lyrical content. CONTENDER.

The Special Relatives – Ah this reminds me of Harry Partch – I think the atonality serves the devil theme well. Somehow the vocal entry seems not as sophisticated as your tuning choice. Yeah, the lyrics don’t either. I would like to review the lyrics more, but I can’t hear them all. Are you saying “Devils live in a quiet Town?” That’s not the title. Hmm.

Ross Durand (me) – Ok, I like my song. Interesting note. I wrote the choruse to rhyme with the title “Devils live in a quiet pool.” The day before the submission deadline I visited the site and saw that I was mistaken. So I had to rewrite the last two lines (I already had the vocal recorded). It’s a better song the other way. I have chosen solo-acoustic (what you folks call boy-with-guitar) as my primary idiom. So I am having a good time working with different idioms here. I write a lot of folk Ballad form songs, so choruses are not my forte, but I think I did an ok job here.

x-tokyo-river-god – songs are to be sung (my new bias, based on the dictionary). You use “pond” plural where the title was singular (I have also chosen to have a title bias). This is more appropriate for a poetry contest at your local coffee house. In that context, not altogether uninteresting.

Cri Du Chat – I really like that you contrast devils with angels here…duh...why didn’t we all come up with that. For some reason you’re reminding me of a band called the waxing poetics on the chorus. I basically like this, but it doesn’t quite go anywhere.

The BeWells - I'm a fan of the folk ballad – so you got me a little there. Pretty interesting story for the title, but even for the idiom it takes awhile to develop for me, perhaps that’s due to the instrumental breaks or the lukewarm vocal performance. Prob’ly second for me right now.

The Unstoppable Mr. Mint – As good as a lot of metal songs I think (but I’m not really a metal fan). Yngwie wrote some friggin’ crappy lyrics (I am a Viking?)! The transition from chorus to second verse is not clear. I think the ghost story angle is interesting, although I’m not sure how that relates to the “hell is what you make of it” part.

Farmenther Roundtable – not a fan of title in the first line (but I love “Yesterday”…go figger). After the first chorus I’m still trying to figure out what devils have to do with it. So swimmers are lured..ok so what?..what’s the big surprise? Just ok, I guess. I like the “living hell” line. But overall I guess I just don’t get it.

C. Layne – I like your opening tune/motif – pretty foreboding. The frst song seems just a bit cheesy to me (sorry). Iliek how melodic the tune is, especially for this idiom. I like the boat metaphor. Interesting musical transition after second verse, but I think the musical variety comes a little too late. A bit too long for what it accomplishes.

So if it ain’t me (I have a competitive spirit) I think that Max the Cat is the only real standout as far as the merit of the song goes. Pretty strong fight, though. A lot of interesting angles.

[bwell]

I finally made it back through all the songs to give them a closer listen.

The BeWells - This was mine. On the positive side I think I made some improvements with the stereo micing, cleaner vocals than some previous efforts, and the bass part was planned out a little more than before to match the lyrical content. It was also fun to finally break out the bouzouki...it had almost been five years since the last time I used it in a recording. On the negative side I think the song could have made better use of dynamics, more structure and planning for fitting everything together (the guitar and mandolin in particular), and I still need to work on vocal recording (I've done much worse but didn't leave myself much room this time around).

Charcoal - Very nice atmosphere starting the song. The vocal delivery kind of detracts from that mood, but the lyrics fit well. The build up going into the second half of the song is a nice change, but the distorted vocal feels a bit over the top. The backing music in general sets the tone well. I think this would come off a little better if the melody were a bit more pronounced and maybe haunting or simply pitched up a little higher.

C. Layne - Overall the song is a little long, but the good moments are really nice and the length didn't get into a bad sort of dragging on. This one gets into a nice somewhat slow groove and I particularly like the vocal tone...kind of an effortless sound with good clarity that cuts through on those higher parts. Nothing in particular jumps out at me with the instrumentation and playing which is probably a good thing for this sort of mood. The subdued feeling of the song and the vocals put this into my top three for this title.

Cri Du Chat - There are some nice things going on in this song. I like the dark tone with the industrial kind of tones used here. The vocal delivery on the verses has a nice feel, but does lose a bit going into the chorus there along with maybe a bit too much reverb. I think my only complaint with the accompaniment is that the repetitive beat gets to be a bit much by the end of the song.

Draft - I think I would mostly reiterate what others have said on this one...excellent job. I generally love the instruments...great sax, drums, with tasteful keys and guitar thrown in. The sound of the recording is also nicely done. The only distraction for me is that I prefer a different sort of vocal for this type of jazz. The voice sounds good, but fits better for me in other songs. This definitely made it into my top three.

Farmenther Roundtable - This song has a nice sound, but kind of lacks that something extra to draw me into the song. I like the guitar sound and the playing in the chorus in particular. It might be the laid back vocals that take a bit too much edge off the song.

Kamakura - The mellow keyboards make for a nice break in the song flow at this point. I think the sparse arrangement works for this one, giving a dark, empty feel to match the lyrics. The vocals fit nicely, but sometimes feel a bit too low (reminded me a little of The Pawnbrokers Stepdaughter in that regard). Otherwise, this is nice mellow song that sits nicely.

Max the Cat - I'm not sure that I like the song as a whole as much as I love the individual parts. That being said, I do like the song, but there are so many wonderful things going on in this song that I tend to lose sight of the overall song. That "devils live" repetitive chorus was stuck in my head throughout the week. The light guitar and drums instrumentation fits perfectly and there are some nice riffs there. The highlight of this song for me is the vocal delivery. There's a great balance to this with plenty of variety with the singing, talky bits, higher and lower, etc. I'm still loving this one and it easily makes it into my top three.

Poor June - There's something I like about the rhythm on the verse parts. The tuning of the guitar is a bit off, but there's a nice play between the arpeggiated guitar and the rap-like delivery. I think the two parts feel a bit disjointed going into the chorus. The chorus isn't bad, but it needs to be tightened up. I can almost hear a polished up version of this being pretty good. As others had mentioned it kind of falls apart a bit when the two sections mix together. Overall, there are some good ideas here shining through a performance that's a tad too rough for me.

Ross Durand - This one starts out a little weak, but then the chorus kicks in and I was pretty much hooked on the guitar parts. It definitely sounds like there are some Beatle-esque moments going on there...which sits perfectly fine with me. This song fell right outside my top three, as it felt like everything could have been produced a touch better to give it more life. I think all of the elements are there and simply need to be refined...good song.

The Special Relatives - I think this one is a bit too odd for my tastes. It certainly makes for an interesting listen and the vocals are rather fitting with that accompaniment. This isn't bad and for the style isn't offputting...simply not the type of thing I'd give too many listens.

The Unstoppable Mr. Mint - This one was a bit too quiet to get a good feel for it. There is probably more falsetto going on there than fits with my tastes. And with the sound that low it's hard to tell if the guitar tone fits well enough.

x-tokyo-river-god - This is great. I'm not sure I'd rank it high in terms of a song...but for what it is it works well. Great feel and the whispered voice adds a lot to these potentially eerie titles. Nice work on using the backing sounds to set that mood.

Having at last made it through all the songs, I think Max the Cat pulls to the front of this fight to get my vote. Overall, this was a good set of songs.

[c.låyne]

now, the moment you've all been waiting for........ reviews

bewells
reminds me of: love. the band, that is.
makes me want to: sit by a fire in a log cabin in the middle of winter. or dress in animal skins and wander the misty mountains.
what i dig about this: the genral irish-folk feeling of the whole thing, and the production is fantastic.
what i wish were different: nothing comes to mind

charcoal
reminds me of: death in june. very atmospheric.
makes me want to: sit an watch tv in a psychiatric ward. or go spelunking.
what i dig about this: it's very moody. i can't really understand the lyrics, but i rarely listen to lyrics on the first go-thru of a song. i love the dynamics. the ambient intro was very well done. seems a little short for this type of song.
what i wish were different: nothing comes to mind

c.layne
reminds me of: dead meadow, mostly because i was trying to sound like them.. sort of.
makes me want to: take some pain killers, sit in my big chair with nothing but red lights on, and die.
what i dig about this: this was fun for me to do. i rarely ever use distortion, and i wanted to try direct-mic'ing the amp. i got the fuzziness i was looking for, and the slow droning. i couldn't get the vocals buried like i had envisioned, but it still turned out alright for my tastes. weee!
what i wish were different: i don't have a voice that was made for rock. but i would only change it for this song.

cri du chat
reminds me of: i'm not familiar with any bands in particular that do stuff like this. it just reminds me of 80's british new wave.
makes me want to: do nothing in particular. maybe drive around a city at night.
what i dig about this: the dark mood. the guitar riff during the chorus adds a strange quality that i really like.
what i wish were different: i wish the drums were a little clearer, or a little more up-front. as they stand, they kind of muffle into each other. that's it, though. this was a very interesting track.

draft
reminds me of: i don't know!! some lounge band.
makes me want to: drink.
what i like about this: singing really matches the flavor. production is stellar, like always whenever you fools are involved. great guitar tone.
what i wish were different: this is solely my taste, not a comment on the songwriting or production. i don't know why, but i hate the way saxophones sound. i wish it had been replaced with the vocal stylings of a soulful black woman. but i'm guessing you don't have one at your disposal.

farmenther roundtable
reminds me of: some band i would see at a county fair, and walk past.
makes me want to: listen to something else.
what i like about this: the guitar sounds good, if a little dry.
what i wish were different: the song, in general. that's not very nice of me. i'm sorry. but this is pretty bland.

kamakura
reminds me of: hmmm.. it reminds me of kamakura, i guess!
makes me want to: put some reverb on your voice and sink it in the mix a bit.
what i like about this: i really like the piano part, and the overall slow, dragging pace. with better production, i think this could be my favorite track of yours that i've heard.
what i wish was different: more reverb! all around. the drums sound very keyboardish, there's just no bottom end to them.

max the cat
reminds me of: hippies.
makes me want to: kill hippies.
what i like about this: guitar is very well played, and the recording of it is great.
what i wish was different: the vocals. i'm personally not much for talky vocals. plus, they're very dry, and overpower everything.

poor june
reminds me of: there's no mistaking this for anyone else, and that's a good thing. but if i had to choose something, it would be slint.
makes me want to: see this performed in a dimly lit coffee house.
what i like about this: the verse, and the guitar parts.
what i wish were different: the chorus isn't grabbing me. i'm not a 'title purist', so that doesn't bother me. it might be more endearing if it had some percussion, even if it's just some clappin' and knee slappin'.

rdurand
apply the review for farmenther roundtable. except, in this instance, the vocals are too dry instead of the guitar

special relatives
reminds me of: no one thing in particular. it's like if you took jeremy enigk's 'return of the frog queen', mixed it with equal parts blur's '13' and modest mouse's 'the moon and antarctica'... and then mixed it with LSD.
makes me want to: hide.
what i like about this: it's really fucking bizarre. i would have to be in the right mood to listen to this, but i can definitely appreciate it.
what i wish were different: i can't think of anything.

unstoppable mr mint
i have nothing to say about this. sounds like annoying neighbors playing in their basement way too loud while you're trying to sleep. or something.

xtokyorivergod
reminds me of: boards of canada after they watched some mindfuck movie.
makes me want to: run away very quickly from whatever that is whispering.
what i like about this: extremely creepy. the sparseness lets you really concentrate on the voice, and you get very claustrophobic.
what i wish were different: i wish this weren't the last song in the playlist, because now i'm scared.

[tonetripper]

The BeWells - There is very little that I don't love about this song. From the moment that I heard the vocal come in over the mimicing lead line of the twelve string I was overwhelmed at how much you nailed the energy of the title with such celtic voicings. A la Loreena McKennit (sp), Jethro Tull etc. the song is wonderfully produced and excellently executed. Bravo. This one could easily get my vote. Excellent work in bringing the story to life in a genre that is nice to hear on Songfight.

Charcoal - There are some interesting textures in this song, but the general feel from my perspective is that the song doesn't really fit the title although there are pitter patters of the use of the title in the lyrical concept. More visceral from a musical standpoint than anything else to define the title. Reminds me of Helios Creed.

C. Layne - I think one thing that distracts in the song for me is the distance of the vocal. I wish it was a little more present in the mix and I also hear a little bit of encoding in the mix. Not enough to distract, but I know how good you can sound. Sounds like some de-noiser plug-in working overtime. The guitar work is very cool and I dig the general tone. Drums rock, but where is the bass (as in guitar)? If ever you need some bass, I'd be glad to accomodate you mon frere. Big C. Layne fan. This is one of those songs that grows on me with more listens (but then that is the case with most of C. Layne work ). The breakdown with the multiple voices and sonic dissonant guitar work is awesomely cool. Nice. Possible vote.

Sparks - Holy Bottom end batman. Kinda cool, but eats up an awful lot of sonic space in the mix. I think in this industrial tone, that you've created, I feel that you could have been a little more creative in the sonic nature or production of the vocal. Not bad. Not my fave.

Draft (Us) - I've said enough about this one. I love the sounds and was very pleased with the micing of the instruments. Wishin' I had more time to get into the vocal and lyrics. The musicians who played on it rock. Thanks goes out to them for their time. Thanks for all the comments. I agree with most of them.

Farmenther Roundtable - There is a very Dire Straits feel in this version of the title. Sounds don't really move me and the arrangement sounds pretty straight up Country Rock. Pretty cool production at points. Reminds me of Tom Petty a bit. No vote.

Kamakura - I think my general complaint of your vocal styling is, and I don't want you to take this the wrong way, is that you are too present with the microphone in most of your submissions. Either back off or give a little rev, but I hear the proximity effect pushing the bottom end up on the vocal. It tends to put the vocal out of the sonic space of the mix. As a song I could take it or leave it for the title.

Max the Cat - Sometimes you remind me in the best kind of way of Doctor John in your vocal delivery. The guitar work is excellent in this song and the drum programming (if it is) fits nicely in the mix. I feel you and I share a similar affinity to the rambling nature of the title in our songs (for this title I mean) and lyrical content. "Burger Clowns and Talking Lizards" is a great line. Great use of the title. Possible vote and keeper.

Poor June - The production keeps getting better on your submissions and I am happy of that cuz your ideas are always innovative in a PJ kind of way. I don't like one point where your voice gets a little Eddie Vedder build like. That doesn't sound good. The rapping melodramatic guitar work doesn't quite work for me and in general this tune never really sells me the title. No vote.

Ross Durand - I guess my major complaint is that the songwriting is a little too plain as day for the title. Meaning I find the lyrical content doesn't seem to really stretch my imagination much. I also find the vocal performance could have used a couple more passes to really nail the production in reference to the pretty well performed other parts. However, it gets a little loose at the guitar solo section. Good use of the title in terms of the hooky chorus breakdown. Watch that digital distortion when recording the vocals. Started to break up a bit at the loud points. No vote.

The Special Relatives - I love this song for the title. It's just so warped that I feel the title almost more than the other submissions. Kind of like LSD peaked frog blues. I feel the moonlight stillness refracting off the calmness of the water as the world gears up for the release of the demons. I visualize this frog getting down with the lizards on the lillypads jamming to the essence of that release. Very cool. Possible vote.

Unstoppable Mr. Mint - Sounds like you had the microphone in the next country and the pitchiness is atrocious. Ater a while I skipped it.

XTokyoRiverGod - Eerie backwards energy, but seems like a sequel to the last submission. Heroin game boy music for some game called 'Hellseeker'. No vote.

So my vote was between The BeWells and The Special Relatives. Due to the dark nature of the title and the interesting concept that The Special Relatives introduced in reference to the title my vote goes to them.

Top Five:
1) Special Relatives
2) The BeWells
3) Max the Cat
4) C. Layne
5) Draft

Awesome fight everybody. Great diversity of music for a very cool title. One of my favourite fights.

[c.låyne]

C. Layne - Drums rock, but where is the bass (as in guitar)? If ever you need some bass, I'd be glad to accomodate you mon frere. Big C. Layne fan.

yeah, i don't have one. i may have to hit you up on that sometime

[tonetripper]

Anytime dude. Anytime.

[Me$$iah]

Okay Black fight reviews
Man Im on one this week Ive reviewed all four fights
but only cos of the huge long deadline, I usually mean to do it then next thing i know its new fight week, Oh well I did it this time- an I voted to
(hear that jb, i voted in all 4 fights. cor Im good me)


BeWells---------great intro with ace chords. excellent song, really folky and nice. Top draw, well done

Charcoal---------boring, the voice is too muddy for me to hear it properly then it goes heavier and just muddier- spend time on the mix theres potential there

C.Layne---------good riff and drums, voice is slightly muggy here too- good song tho but at over 6'n'half mins it may be a little overlong, not special enough to warrant all the time

Criduchat---------too much vox this time, turn the music up a little. this is the opposite of the last one.hehehe. The loop could change a little too. Not bad

Draft---------What can I say- you know how good this is- Jazzy par excellance---Awesome-O

Farm..table---------I like this. the lead sound aint great but it aint bad, a bit gnarly for me, could double it make it fuller. good job.

Kamakura---------Nice, its mellow i really like the piano part, and the lowness rocks. good build up to 1:46 and again at the end, which resloves beautifully. top draw

MaxtheCat---------up to the usual Max standard, greta snare sound and the accoustic riffing rocks. the harmonics are great. top draw

PoorJune---------nice to hear PJ again,its been a while. the cahnge from verse to ch is a bit disjointed. interesting vox style. I miss your piano playing. the melody is held better on this, best vox perfomance from you. nice guit licks.Not bad

rdurand---------Good. nice melody and the guit part is sweet. good intro which opens up nice. not too keen onthe solo up to 2:30ish, its just not there . good lyric, nice mix. good job

SpecRel---------nice wierd intro, strange voice. great musicvox a little quiet in the mix . good but dont do nuthin or go nowhere.interesting idea thats needs developing or as an intro to sumthing else

Unstoppable---------Really quiet. awful recording, shame cos it could be a reasonable song with work. Needs to filled out with other inst. not bad

xtoyko---------NEXT!!!!

oh that was the last. oh ok well I think that this was a good fight with some real corkers and not a huge amount of crap- so well done everyome

top three in reverse order

3Max the Cat
2Karmakura
1Draft

Awsome-O

[sparks]

Cri Du Chat – I really like that you contrast devils with angels here…duh...why didn’t we all come up with that.

I'm reading over your other posts as I type to see if you're being witty, here. You can never tell on the internet--not because text doesn't transfer sarcasm, but because some people might actually say that in earnest on the internet.

If you were being facetious, as I suspect you were, I will humbly cower at this point, because I just"got served". I liked my lyrics, thought they were trite, sometimes in tasteless ways you can only see accurately a week or two later.


Back to the topic, I'll be disappointed to see Draft win this, no personal offense meant to the artists (though plenty will soon be conveyed regardless). Maybe it's just me, but I have this terrible itching, drowning sensation whenever I am confronted with that particular brand of cheese. Allergies, probably. I have a syringe pen in here somewhere. It's like you've got Kenny G on sax and Jamiroquai on vocals, with a handful of Vegas lounge regulars in the back each playing a different song they learned in the mid-80s, that year they were lucky enough to play behind both Wayne Newton and Pat Boone. What's the very worst is that it comes out sounding good. Polished. But really dead. Elevator-dead, grocery-store-dead. Hence the hives.

But it's very well produced, and you perform... accurately.

If I'm wrong, and the BeWells take this fight, count me a silly, absolutely pleased putz, but I see with my infinite wisdom and really big purple turban that Draft will take this. But I call this kind of thing wrong all the time and am proven an aimless whiner, so we'll see.

Apologies again for my arrogance, but I do have to let it out for a walk sometimes. If you want constructive criticism, I say mix it up a bit. Don't wallow in such a tight-knit "genre" pattern, especially as you are utterly talented musicians. I know "jazzers" *think* they're mixing it up when they do this, but holy god guys, you aren't! Don't feel too bad that I'm singling you out--it's mostly because I suspect that you've got a lot of people voting for you, which is probably a good thing. Consider this an extended review, if you want. Maybe the slightest change of style would have brought me in to this full-speed, but I don't think so. It's like listening to my old high school marching band play jazz--really competently, sure, but the effect doesn't go away.

Pompeii is just lucky I haven't given them the same treatment, yet. Those guys need a good talking-to after Glass Eye! Ugh. Classic rockers!

[Ross]

I wrote:
Cri Du Chat – I really like that you contrast devils with angels here…duh...why didn’t we all come up with that.

Sparks replied:
I'm reading over your other posts as I type to see if you're being witty, here. You can never tell on the internet--not because text doesn't transfer sarcasm, but because some people might actually say that in earnest on the internet.

Actually no, I was not being facetious. I think that that contrast is an excellent example of good song writing - seriously. Generating lyrics in a week is an interesting exercise for me. I tend to let songs germinate in my mind for months before I write them, but contrast seems like an excellent poetic device to run in lyric idea generation.

By the way, I agree with you on Draft - I think it will win, too, and will also be disappointed. I didn't chime in earlier when the debate was happening, but I get the feeling that the fact that it is slick jazz will attract focus away from whether it is the best song or not. I want to be on the record, though, as saying that I don't think the players were used as a bid for votes and that an earlier post which was taken to have that implication may not have meant that either, but seemed to me to be a comment on how the votes (and reviews) often seem heavily based on production/performance. I, for one, appreciate the reviews that comment on the content of the song (good or bad) rather than on personal style preferences or whether a keyboard is panned too far right. All things being equal, should the better "sounding" song win? Sure, but I guess I figure the song is what is underneath the performance, not the performance itself.

[tonetripper]

Back to the topic, I'll be disappointed to see Draft win this, no personal offense meant to the artists (though plenty will soon be conveyed regardless). Maybe it's just me, but I have this terrible itching, drowning sensation whenever I am confronted with that particular brand of cheese. Allergies, probably. I have a syringe pen in here somewhere. It's like you've got Kenny G on sax and Jamiroquai on vocals, with a handful of Vegas lounge regulars in the back each playing a different song they learned in the mid-80s, that year they were lucky enough to play behind both Wayne Newton and Pat Boone. What's the very worst is that it comes out sounding good. Polished. But really dead. Elevator-dead, grocery-store-dead. Hence the hives.

But it's very well produced, and you perform... accurately.

If I'm wrong, and the BeWells take this fight, count me a silly, absolutely pleased putz, but I see with my infinite wisdom and really big purple turban that Draft will take this. But I call this kind of thing wrong all the time and am proven an aimless whiner, so we'll see.

Apologies again for my arrogance, but I do have to let it out for a walk sometimes. If you want constructive criticism, I say mix it up a bit. Don't wallow in such a tight-knit "genre" pattern, especially as you are utterly talented musicians. I know "jazzers" *think* they're mixing it up when they do this, but holy god guys, you aren't! Don't feel too bad that I'm singling you out--it's mostly because I suspect that you've got a lot of people voting for you, which is probably a good thing. Consider this an extended review, if you want. Maybe the slightest change of style would have brought me in to this full-speed, but I don't think so. It's like listening to my old high school marching band play jazz--really competently, sure, but the effect doesn't go away.

Pompeii is just lucky I haven't given them the same treatment, yet. Those guys need a good talking-to after Glass Eye! Ugh. Classic rockers!

I'm not going to disagree with your feelings about our submission as it is your feelings, but please keep in the back-burner of your mind that with each submission to SF my intention is not to win as much as it is to explore recording and songwriting techniques. Personally the BeWells kicked our ass in the songwriting dept. That was a well crafted song for the title. For that matter my personal favourite was The Special Relatives for the title.

Regardless of the beigeness that you say we ascribed to, be aware that if you think it's beige someone else might not. Jazz is difficult to manage in a popular music capacity and I think I managed it pretty good in manifesting the parts so as to translate into a title. Sure it's genre specific, but at least it's something. And if it's jazz and perhaps a little too plain jazz I dig your need to debase it. But honestly your rant seems to me to be short-sighted. I wrote in this review board that the players came after the song was built a la Bed tracks, so whatever jazzers brought to the table was from their arsenal of licks that they have grown into over time. These are pros we're talking about here who involved themselves in Draft. They are not regular participants of my SF explorations, nor have they ever once gotten into the universe that is SF to define, perhaps, their need to be different. Personally their arsenal was to my liking and I feel that we nailed a genre that we were somewhat looking for. The same could be said of the BeWells song. The genre that was put forward is one I've heard umpteen times in my life. That genre bias bullshit doesn't wash well with me. You either like it or your don't. I find genre specific people boring and closed-minded.

I guess I'm not miffed at your need to debase the song. I feel the same in many regards. As it was, it was an exercise. Nothing more. If the voting sways to Draft then so be it. I felt everything I did and I'm sure the players involved did as well, although I never asked. There is more feeling in that track than many other submissions in the fight.

Oh and to define the players as Kenny G on sax and Jamiroquai on vocals is, albeit, nice on some kind of sarcastic insult level, but totally narrow-minded and dumb. I guess from your perspective anyone who plays a sax is Kenny G, although he's famous for playing the soprano sax and not the alto. And although the Jamiroquai reference is nice (as he is a good singer), I'll never believe for a minute that my vocal sounds like his does as it is in the Draft submission. I guess I kind of think your extended review is kinda dumb and short-sighted, but then if you spent more time on your own submission and less time writing stupid extended reviews, maybe your song might sound half as good even with the genre specific Depeche Mode vibe you had going. Ugh.

[Ross]

Tonetripper wrote:

I guess from your perspective anyone who plays a sax is Kenny G, although he's famous for playing the clarinet

I believe its a soprano saxophone.

[tonetripper]

I edited my last post. Thanks for the info.

[sparks]

Oh, no, I'm not that concerned with the win. If I have any enthusiasm for the winning of the fight it's mostly play and show. But I like to get all excited and pissy about how the opinions of the masses differ from my own. Like I said, don't worry too much about me, I'm just a flea. Keep playing.

As for my Kenny G comparisons and the like, I was more focused on the style of play. Maybe those aren't accurate portrayals, but I thought the sarcasm made its point for me--I was commenting on the degree of schmooze, the mood of the playing, and maybe the generally imitative sound I seemed to hear. The annoyance at obvious imitation was especially what I meant by the Jamiroquai bit. I think he's a hell of a vocalist too, if that's of any use to you, though highly imitative.

And though a lot of -time- went into Cri du Chat, I admit fully that a lot of skill didn't. I get almost as much enjoyment out of berating popular entries I dislike for whatever reason as I do from playing and listening to music. It's a personal fault! I really do hope you guys had fun, and that the fun I get in being pointlessly sour didn't spoil too much of it.

For the record, I've never owned a Depeche album, so I'd have to say it's mostly unconscious imitation. Was always more of a Morrissey dweeb. I do whatever comes to my head, and usually that results in music after a few days' playing, replaying, and mixing, with focus on the replaying to account for a general inability to play the keyboard in time. Sometimes the result is slightly less than music, but hopefully it amuses all the same. No hard feelings, guys--I won't delete my rant, mostly because I spent so many late-night minutes composing my masterpiece, but I will temper it with my mid-day attitude, if it's all the same. Don't be afraid to pull out the punches on my entries, if one ever is worthy of the attention and complaint.

[erik]

I guess I kind of think your extended review is kinda dumb and short-sighted, but then if you spent more time on your own submission and less time writing stupid extended reviews, maybe your song might sound half as good even with the genre specific Depeche Mode vibe you had going. Ugh.

Yeah sparks, that'll show you to have an opinion. And the wrong one, to boot.

I remember why I don't like doing reviews now.

[Poor June]

yea not that i agree or disagree entirely with spark...
the entry was done perfect... i couldn't find anything wrong with it if i tried
besides it not havin' the title in it... which i really don't care too much
i think the only thing that bothered me... is it sounded
a little too generic... it sounded like somethin' that i had heard before
but... the vocals were fantastic... you did an amazin' job...
i still kinda think you sounded more like that davin degrath or whatever dude haha... (i can't ever remember his name)

[erik]

yea not that i agree or disagree entirely with spark... the entry was done perfect... i couldn't find anything wrong with it if i tried besides it not havin' the title in it... which i really don't care too much i think the only thing that bothered me... is it sounded a little too generic...

Being too generic would be something that's wrong with it.

[/standard erik disclaimer]

[tonetripper]

besides it not havin' the title in it...

You obviously never really listened to the submission if you never heard the title in the song. It's pretty obvious. As far as the generic nature of the song, I guess it's failing point is that it's jazz and has jazzers pulling out their tricks. Even jazzers will tell you that some of their phrasing is borrowed from predecessors and may tell you that they wish they didn't do the same things all the time even though I marvel at their talent.

And for the record Sparks I got a little worked up, cuz my pal and I did spend time writing that song for the title. The feel of the music was something we were shooting for in keeping with the title. I was feeling a very Tom Waits type vibe, but got caught up in singing it. Maybe not for everyone, but the song, from my perspective, does elucidate the title for me and now listening to it a week later or so it definitely gives me more of an indication of the title. then when it was first conceived. No harm meant on the Depeche Mode thing.... I got defensive..... sorry. I never meant to shoot you down about your music and your confrontational approach on the boards is something I can appreciate. Flame wars are fun.

[sparks]

I guess I kind of think your extended review is kinda dumb and short-sighted, but then if you spent more time on your own submission and less time writing stupid extended reviews, maybe your song might sound half as good even with the genre specific Depeche Mode vibe you had going. Ugh.

Yeah sparks, that'll show you to have an opinion. And the wrong one, to boot.

I remember why I don't like doing reviews now.

Now, now, Erik, down! I was bored and so unnecessarily... enthusiastic. I don't dislike you fighting back, tonetripper, and have no special pride in my music. I didn't feel any special problem with the writing or the lyrics, as far as fitting in with the feel of the title--people go kind of crazy with that aspect sometimes, as far as reviews go.

Really, now, let's all hold hands!

[blue]

I remember why I don't like doing reviews now.

BECAUSE YOU ARE A LAZY SLUT.