Long fights

Use this forum for title suggestions, bitching at moderators, whining about phpBB, and grand ideas that will solve all of Song Fight's problems.
User avatar
jb
Hot for Teacher
Posts: 4159
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 10:12 am
Instruments: Guitar, Cello, Keys, Uke, Vox, Perc
Recording Method: Logic X
Submitting as: The John Benjamin Band
Pronouns: he/him
Location: WASHINGTON, DC
Contact:

Post by jb »

king_arthur wrote:If a quarterly, three-week-long fight is not added to the format, then people who are considering participating will continue to be turned off by the one-week timeline, coming back with things like "Oh, well our band doesn't meet often enough to enable us to really put anything together in a week, but sounds fun. Oh well."
Songfight requires a modicum of resourcefulness. :)
blippity blop ya don’t stop heyyyyyyyyy
Eric Y.
Ice Cream Man
Posts: 1797
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2004 12:36 pm

Post by Eric Y. »

king_arthur wrote: the one-week deadline favors those who take shortcuts, like drum machines, MIDI horns ...
so why are you complaining? :D
User avatar
bz£
Panama
Posts: 946
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 10:50 am
Location: boston ma

Post by bz£ »

Here is a fun thing you can try if you want occasional long fights for whatever reason. It requires some resourcefulness, but that's okay, because I am supplying it right now for the good of the community.

Next week sometime, one or more new song titles will be posted. They will have due dates of approximately November eighth. Pick one and say "I will do this song in three weeks, instead of one." Then spend three weeks on it and put it on somesongs.

Everybody wins! If lots of people do this (unlikely) then you can even make a competition out of it and see whose song gets the highest rating. Incidentally that will also address the common complaint that the songfight! voting system should be changed for some reason or other.
User avatar
Jim of Seattle
Ice Cream Man
Posts: 1360
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 11:33 am
Instruments: Keyboards
Recording Method: Cakewalk, EastWest Play, Adobe Audition, Windows
Submitting as: Jim of Seattle, Ants (Invisible), Madi Singer/Songwriter, Restless Events
Contact:

Post by Jim of Seattle »

Well, why don't I just ,ake up my own title and take as long as I want to finish it and submit it to somesongs? Because that's not Songfight, and neither is your solution. The whole point is to enable more people to participate.

KA's comments are right on target. This is an idea that would get more people to play. It's only good for SF.

And many people have already decided not to enter because they couldn't meet the deadline. I have yet to work on a collab that didn't end up getting cut short due to the 1-week deadline.

You may be right, whoever said the FM's don't change things about the fight process. This seems close to zero impact and all good.
User avatar
Jim of Seattle
Ice Cream Man
Posts: 1360
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 11:33 am
Instruments: Keyboards
Recording Method: Cakewalk, EastWest Play, Adobe Audition, Windows
Submitting as: Jim of Seattle, Ants (Invisible), Madi Singer/Songwriter, Restless Events
Contact:

Post by Jim of Seattle »

Well, why don't I just ,ake up my own title and take as long as I want to finish it and submit it to somesongs? Because that's not Songfight, and neither is your solution. The whole point is to enable more people to participate.

KA's comments are right on target. This is an idea that would get more people to play. It's only good for SF.

And many people have already decided not to enter because they couldn't meet the deadline. I have yet to work on a collab that didn't end up getting cut short due to the 1-week deadline.

You may be right, whoever said the FM's don't change things about the fight process. This seems close to zero impact and all good.
User avatar
Leaf
Jump
Posts: 2438
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 2:19 pm
Instruments: Drums, guitar, bass, vocals.
Recording Method: Cubase
Submitting as: Leaf 62, Gert, Boon Liver, Leaf and Twig, Tom Skillman, A bunch of other stuff.
Location: Campbell River, B.C.
Contact:

Post by Leaf »

Jimmy two two and the posted tang strikes again!!
User avatar
Phil. Redmon.
Mean Street
Posts: 517
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 3:28 pm
Instruments: guitars
Recording Method: Reaper
Submitting as: Abominominous, The Hell Yeahs, Spy Vs. Pie
Location: W. Sac, Cal.
Contact:

Post by Phil. Redmon. »

A longer fight just means a longer wait for the last minute.
User avatar
erik
Jump
Posts: 2341
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 11:06 am
Submitting as: 15-16 puzzle
Location: Austin
Contact:

Post by erik »

Jim of Seattle wrote:KA's comments are right on target. This is an idea that would get more people to play. It's only good for SF.
Why would getting more people to play be better for Songfight?
Hoblit
Hot for Teacher
Posts: 3669
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 12:48 pm
Pronouns: Dude or GURRRLLLL!
Location: Charlotte, NC ... A big city on its first day at the new job.
Contact:

Post by Hoblit »

15-16 puzzle wrote:
Jim of Seattle wrote:KA's comments are right on target. This is an idea that would get more people to play. It's only good for SF.
Why would getting more people to play be better for Songfight?
because we are a large community that continues to grow. This may lead to some more exposure...which can lead to employment options and success to those who take this thing seriously.

Also, because it's fun to have more folks listening and participating in this great thing we have.

I don't have an opinion on this subject either way though. There was a time when I could spare more time to create songs in under a week. That time is gone for now. However, it's because of work hours,events in my life, and my inability to make songfight! more of a priority.

It's like asking the grocery store to stay open later because you can't get there sooner. There might be other people who will benifit...the store employees might need the money(time)...or...they might not and want to go home(keep it fast paced with more updates and results). Managment and ownership (Fightmaster, FMjr) would also have to profit or at least break even. So bottom line is that it has to be 'worth it' to all parties involved.

So my opinion is that it is at least worth talking about anyways :-)
User avatar
jack
Hot for Teacher
Posts: 3820
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 10:41 am
Recording Method: ProTools, Logic, Garageband
Submitting as: brody, Jack Shite, Johnny in the Corner, Bloody Hams, lots more
Location: santa cruz, ca.

Post by jack »

Phil. Redmon. wrote:A longer fight just means a longer wait for the last minute.
truer words were never spoken.
Hi!
User avatar
roymond
Beat It
Posts: 5188
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 3:42 pm
Instruments: Guitars, Bass, Vocals, Logic
Recording Method: Logic X, MacBookPro, Focusrite Scarlett 2i2
Submitting as: roymond, Dangerous Croutons, Intentionally Left Bank, Moody Vermin
Pronouns: he/him
Location: brooklyn
Contact:

Post by roymond »

One week deadlines have kept me from participating lately [edit - my life is the keeping me from participating in the one week format]. But I've produced three other songs on the side, each of which required no more actual effort or time than I usually spend on songfight songs (one or two nights) but without the constraint i was free to do as I pleased. There are about a dozen unfinished songfight songs taking up space on my drive, and I'm not terribly motivated to "finish" them because the inspiration is gone.

I would welcome the extended deadline concept since it would keep me in touch with this community, but I don't need it. I think the collaboration angle is pretty compelling as well.

I also accept that this comment contributes little to the discussion.
roymond.com | songfights | covers
"Any more chromaticism and you'll have to change your last name to Wagner!" - Frankie Big Face
tonetripper
Mean Street
Posts: 705
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 10:58 am
Instruments: Bass, Vocals, Guitar, Drums, Sitar, Theremin, Lap Steel, Djembe
Recording Method: Cubase 6, Live 7, Reason 5, UAD 2, MOTU Ultralite, Mackie 1620i onyx
Submitting as: tonetripper, redcar, gert, draft and others
Location: Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Post by tonetripper »

What about the concept of having a fight that is just built on collaborations, once in a while. Namely ones where you don't live in the same city and can't work in the same room. All of Redcar's submissions were all done in a week and neither of us are in the same city. I tend to lean both ways with the concept. As people grow older the function of living gets in the way of artistic endeavours (unless you make money at it) especially for SF. One week seems like a rushed hour in the grand scheme of things sometimes.

I don't think it's such a bad idea, but Phil Redmon is pretty much on the money. Although Redcar lives in different cities (some of us in different provinces with different time zones) we have done a little last minute louie deals with some of the tracks, mostly cuz of familial obligations. So squeezing it in in the last minute is kind of the thing that hurts it at points. But with Leaf's lack of high speed internet service where he lives, the weekdays are all we have to get the tracks from him to work on. Two weeks would definitely make Redcar's tracks better. Either that or the cram would come in. I would welcome the concept only if it involved the concept of collaboration. That would make sense.

Most of Sober's tunes are done with little time to spare, so a week seems aight to me in a solo sense..... still nice to shake it up a bit. And would be interesting to hear what people would do with the songwriting process along with the production process in a two week span instead of one. Just my two cents. I know Redcar could use the extra week with certain submission, if we all don't procrastinate - Leaf?!! :)
Image
User avatar
Jim of Seattle
Ice Cream Man
Posts: 1360
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 11:33 am
Instruments: Keyboards
Recording Method: Cakewalk, EastWest Play, Adobe Audition, Windows
Submitting as: Jim of Seattle, Ants (Invisible), Madi Singer/Songwriter, Restless Events
Contact:

Post by Jim of Seattle »

OK everyone, put yourself in the shoes of someone who, week after week, wants to play but can't, because their lives are busy. The whole reason I came to Songfight in the first place was to give my music an outlet even though I have other commitments in my life. I read every board post, I review most fights, I check for the new titles every ten minutes on deadline day, and I have great ideas for sometimes more than one title per week. Then I think about my week ahead and realize I won't have time to participate. And I'm not like a super-duper busy person. I only have one kid. But I work full time and blah blah blah...

On the weeks where I can't help myself and decide to squeeze it in anyway, it means some big sacrifices for family, late nights, etc. It's not good.

Having exclusively one-week fights favors people with a lot of discretionary time. Younger people, most likely; single people; people without kids.

The whole idea of the "challenge" of doing the whole song in a week is an important aspect of the fights. I understand that. I'm only suggesting longer fights every so often, announced in advance. Not a big major change to anything.
User avatar
Jim of Seattle
Ice Cream Man
Posts: 1360
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 11:33 am
Instruments: Keyboards
Recording Method: Cakewalk, EastWest Play, Adobe Audition, Windows
Submitting as: Jim of Seattle, Ants (Invisible), Madi Singer/Songwriter, Restless Events
Contact:

Post by Jim of Seattle »

OK everyone, put yourself in the shoes of someone who, week after week, wants to play but can't, because their lives are busy. The whole reason I came to Songfight in the first place was to give my music an outlet even though I have other commitments in my life. I read every board post, I review most fights, I check for the new titles every ten minutes on deadline day, and I have great ideas for sometimes more than one title per week. Then I think about my week ahead and realize I won't have time to participate. And I'm not like a super-duper busy person. I only have one kid. But I work full time and blah blah blah...

On the weeks where I can't help myself and decide to squeeze it in anyway, it means some big sacrifices for family, late nights, etc. It's not good.

Having exclusively one-week fights favors people with a lot of discretionary time. Younger people, most likely; single people; people without kids.

The whole idea of the "challenge" of doing the whole song in a week is an important aspect of the fights. I understand that. I'm only suggesting longer fights every so often, announced in advance. Not a big major change to anything.
User avatar
jack
Hot for Teacher
Posts: 3820
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 10:41 am
Recording Method: ProTools, Logic, Garageband
Submitting as: brody, Jack Shite, Johnny in the Corner, Bloody Hams, lots more
Location: santa cruz, ca.

Post by jack »

jim, you're just talking double talk now.... :lol:
Hi!
User avatar
Jim of Seattle
Ice Cream Man
Posts: 1360
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 11:33 am
Instruments: Keyboards
Recording Method: Cakewalk, EastWest Play, Adobe Audition, Windows
Submitting as: Jim of Seattle, Ants (Invisible), Madi Singer/Songwriter, Restless Events
Contact:

Post by Jim of Seattle »

jack shite wrote:
Phil. Redmon. wrote:A longer fight just means a longer wait for the last minute.
truer words were never spoken.
Oh yes they were. That's entirely beside the point. So w at if people still do it at the last minute? The point is that other people would benefit.

Whatever. Frankly, this thread is pissing me off. I'm basically expressing frustration because I can't play very often, and assuming others have a similar problem on occasion, and offering a solution which would negatively affect NO ONE.
User avatar
jack
Hot for Teacher
Posts: 3820
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 10:41 am
Recording Method: ProTools, Logic, Garageband
Submitting as: brody, Jack Shite, Johnny in the Corner, Bloody Hams, lots more
Location: santa cruz, ca.

Post by jack »

just because YOU can't finish a song in a week, every week, and YOU expect the format to change to accomodate your wishes?

cmon jim, you've been around this place long enough to know how it works here. if it's not broken, don't expect anything to get fixed quickly.

go start your own site with all your grandiose ideas....
Hi!
User avatar
erik
Jump
Posts: 2341
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 11:06 am
Submitting as: 15-16 puzzle
Location: Austin
Contact:

Post by erik »

Jim of Seattle wrote:Anyone else think this is a good idea, like once every 3-4 months?
Don't ask for people's opinions and then get frustrated when they give them to you. If you really meant "Here is what I want, I can't believe that anyone could possibly have a different opinion", then say (or type) that at the start, to set the tone more properly.

No one's opinion on this matters, with the exception of two people who will do what they do, regardless of what other people think is a good idea.
tonetripper
Mean Street
Posts: 705
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 10:58 am
Instruments: Bass, Vocals, Guitar, Drums, Sitar, Theremin, Lap Steel, Djembe
Recording Method: Cubase 6, Live 7, Reason 5, UAD 2, MOTU Ultralite, Mackie 1620i onyx
Submitting as: tonetripper, redcar, gert, draft and others
Location: Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Post by tonetripper »

Jim of Seattle wrote:Whatever. Frankly, this thread is pissing me off. I'm basically expressing frustration because I can't play very often, and assuming others have a similar problem on occasion, and offering a solution which would negatively affect NO ONE.
Stop posting so much and get writing. You could've had three ideas in the amount of dialogue you posted Jim. I offered a good idea and I do believe that fundamentally that the concept works great on it's own. Jack's right. If it ain't broke don't fix it. There is always coverfight! and somesongs!. Besides if you are so concerned over your own ideas Jim then why don't you make an album or something and stop trying to make SF the issue why you can't produce the music in time. Besides SF owns the title, therefore the copyright in many respects. They instill the artistic integrity behind their title and you make it for them. That must be clear to you. You got all of life to do that Jim. Chill man. Stop reading, reviewing and posting and get down to work.

- Pablo
Image
User avatar
Lunkhead
You're No Good
Posts: 8107
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 12:14 pm
Instruments: many
Recording Method: cubase/mac/tascam4x4
Submitting as: Berkeley Social Scene, Merisan, Tiny Robots
Pronouns: he/him
Location: Berkeley, CA
Contact:

Post by Lunkhead »

Personally I don't really care if we ever get longer deadlines or not, but I don't think it's necessarily a bad idea.

It appears that the updates, etc. happen somewhat manually at the moment, so it isn't like some automated process would have to have a different, more complicated schedule.

If the concern is that the fights would be too big, would that really be a big deal if it were only an occasional thing? I think people only complained about the big fights before when every fight in a row was huge and they seemed to just be getting bigger and bigger.

If the concern is that larger fights will have disproportionately more songs that suck, I'd have to ask, does anyone really think the 1 week deadline is doing anything to prevent people from sending in songs that royally suck? I don't.

I think that an occasional longer deadline might even be useful for lowering the suck factor. It would give some people (the kind who like to spend more then an hour on their songs) more opportunities to participate, and it would give other people (the kind who like to spend more than a few hours on their songs) more time to work on their entries.
User avatar
Lunkhead
You're No Good
Posts: 8107
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 12:14 pm
Instruments: many
Recording Method: cubase/mac/tascam4x4
Submitting as: Berkeley Social Scene, Merisan, Tiny Robots
Pronouns: he/him
Location: Berkeley, CA
Contact:

Post by Lunkhead »

I would be frustrated too if I wanted to actually discuss an idea, and all I got in response were attempts at witty putdowns and opinions given with little to no explanation for the rationale behind them. Or people who basically say that since some people can enter a good song in a week, everyone can. That's some pretty poor reasoning, because everyone is in a different situation and has different amounts of inspiration, time, etc.

I'd also be frustrated if I just wanted to talk about the SongFight! format (even though I knew full well that it wasn't up to me to make any decisions about it) and people told me to basically shut up. Sure, it's just farting in the wind, but who is it hurting? If you don't like it, don't read the thread. I don't post into every thread that I'm not interested in and tell everybody they should stop posting because it's a waste of time. I just don't read those threads.
User avatar
jack
Hot for Teacher
Posts: 3820
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 10:41 am
Recording Method: ProTools, Logic, Garageband
Submitting as: brody, Jack Shite, Johnny in the Corner, Bloody Hams, lots more
Location: santa cruz, ca.

Post by jack »

some of you guys need to quit treating songfight like an entitlement and more like a privledge.

nobody's trying to censor anyone from spouting their opinion, much less their whine.
Hi!
Post Reply