Graphic Novels

Niveous · Post by **Niveous** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 11:33 am

Somewhere between illustrated novel and comic book lies the graphic novel. Some are brilliant and some are fluff.

My personal favorites are J. O'Barr's The Crow series (that of course launched the movie and the bad sequels) and Neil Gaiman's "Death: the High Cost of Living". The latter I highly recommend to those who are trying out graphic novels for the first time. It's not littered with too much Sandman backstory to deal with and it's very well written.

c hack · Post by **c hack** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 12:44 pm

Death: the high cost of living pales in comparison to the actual Sandman stuff. My faves:

From Hell
Akira (mostly for the art)
Road to Perdition (amazing story and art)

The Watchmen and The Dark Knight Returns were milestones of their day, but in the long run I don't think they quite match up to the above three.

I'm sure there's more, but those are the ones that pop into mind. Blankets held my attention, but it was too self-indulgent.

j$ · Post by j$ » Mon Apr 04, 2005 12:59 pm

c hack wrote:The Watchmen and The Dark Knight Returns were milestones of their day, but in the long run I don't think they quite match up to the above three.

I would disagree - but it is curious that the three you choose are non-superhero while the two above are re-imagining of superheroes. All of them are great, but from very differing genres and therfore, imo, comparisons are as arbitrary as comparing the Monkees with Mozart.

j$

c hack · Post by **c hack** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:48 pm

j$ wrote:
c hack wrote:The Watchmen and The Dark Knight Returns were milestones of their day, but in the long run I don't think they quite match up to the above three.
I would disagree - but it is curious that the three you choose are non-superhero while the two above are re-imagining of superheroes. All of them are great, but from very differing genres and therfore, imo, comparisons are as arbitrary as comparing the Monkees with Mozart.

j$

Yeah, I guess what I meant is that I don't get as much enjoyment out of them as I do the top three. I love the superhero genre though, but I think the best moments are in the comics themselves -- the whole daredevil/elektra thing, the x-men giving up and going through that portal thing (around issues 240-250 i think), spidey having trouble paying rent, Sandman's "season of mists" and "the wake" series, etc.

I don't know if you can consider Crumb's graphic novels "graphic novels," cause they're more of a collection of stuff, but they're also at the top for me.

jute gyte · Post by **jute gyte** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 6:55 pm

these are some good introductions to the medium, all of which are self-contained. if it wasn't for the self-contained rule this list would be longer.

watchmen
from hell
v for vendetta
sin city
like a velvet glove cast in iron

most of these are alan moore because a) his work is amazing and b) he seems to be a very good introductory writer.

WeaselSlayer · Post by **WeaselSlayer** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 8:51 pm

I used to have a Sam and Max graphic novel that was amazing. I think I lost it, and I've been forever sad since.

JonPorobil · Post by **JonPorobil** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 9:13 pm

Maus.

Niveous · Post by **Niveous** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 9:30 pm

C Hack- I concur that the Sandman stuff is better but Death:THCOL works better as a graphic novel than the Sandman stuff where you are left wishing you had them all so you have backstory available.

Generic- thanks for bringing up Maus. I knew there was another Graphic Novel I wanted to bring up but I couldn't recall. Maus is a classic.

Niveous · Post by **Niveous** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 9:35 pm

My favorite collections from ongoing comic series are X-Men: The Dark Phoenix saga (it does wear thin at the end but it's what I grew up reading) and Teen Titans: the Judas Contract- absolutely the best story arc ever.

nyjm · Post by **nyjm** » Thu May 19, 2005 8:30 am

the maxx

yes, it was a (short) animated series on mtv's liquid television. but the graphic novel came first and is short as well, but fabulous. to boot, the animated series does the best job of translating any comic to the screen (though i haven't seen "sin city" yet).

let me second that vote for o'barr's the crow; i really like the first movie, b/c i saw it before ever reading the book, so i tend to think of them as very separate entities. but, yeah, the crow: awesome beyond words.

anyone ever read miller's "ronin"? perhaps not his best work (that would be sin city), but that is some wild sh*t.

and anything by alan moore. even his mediocre stuff is just light years ahead of 90% of the rest of the industry.

j$ · Post by j$ » Thu May 19, 2005 11:33 am

You see, I can't stand The Crow. I know it was catharthis for O'Barr, but I can't stand that drawing style. And whatever its source, it still reads like pretty standard spotty goth teenager revenge fantasty. Sorry, 'cos I know the bakcground to its creation, but maybe he's just not a very good writer ....

j$

Adam! · Post by **Adam!** » Thu May 19, 2005 12:35 pm

Generic wrote:Maus.

Holy crap yes.

Post by jb » Thu May 19, 2005 12:58 pm

MILK AND CHEESE

the Jazz · Post by **the Jazz** » Thu May 19, 2005 10:38 pm

THEY HAVE CAR KEYS

sparks · Post by **sparks** » Thu May 19, 2005 11:51 pm

PLEASE, MAW, PLEASE?

nyjm · Post by **nyjm** » Sat May 21, 2005 4:20 am

j$ wrote:You see, I can't stand The Crow. I know it was catharthis for O'Barr, but I can't stand that drawing style. And whatever its source, it still reads like pretty standard spotty goth teenager revenge fantasty. Sorry, 'cos I know the bakcground to its creation, but maybe he's just not a very good writer ....

the drawing for "the crow" isn't spectacular, i'll concede that. but it's appropriate.

what i really appreciate about the crow is the way it creates certain moods, especially through unexpected imagery ("cat in the hat", the horse and the barbed wire, the ticket-taker on the train). and also i really like that it's not a linear story. for the first book or so, we really have no bloody clue what's going on, it's almost non-sensical violence, but there's something in the mood and nonsense of it that keeps us reading.

in a certain way, "the crow" is quite post-modern: the story itself is not new (revenge tales were old for shakespeare), but it's the way the classic story is reconstructed, the intermittent bits that coalesce around the revenge tale that create the powerful heart of "the crow".

Yook · Post by **Yook** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 12:37 am

Right. Graphic novels. I will be, perhaps, breaking the rules a bit and recommending entire chunks of books. If you have enough money to get them all, you should. These are not in any sort of order, just as I remember them and/or go look at my bookshelf.

Kingdom Come

Hellblazer

Supreme Power (1 & 2 are out so far)

Mage: The Hero Discovered

Mage: The Hero Defined

Johnny the Homicidal Maniac: Director's Cut

Squee!

Sandman (you should seriously just buy them all, trust me)

Lucifer (7 out so far, ongoing series, I love it)

Black Orchid

Promethea (4 so far)

Rising Stars (3 and done, kinda preachy but fun nonetheless)

Planetary (I am a Warren Ellis fanboy)

The Authority

The Matrix Comics (1 and 2, suprisingly good)

Powers (8 so far, great stuff, unless you hate Bendis, then nevermind)

The Filth

Channel Zero

Soulwind (so beautiful, I love it, I have the small-book versions, Oni Press has released larger versions, the small ones are neat, though)

Oh, and Watchmen, Dark Night Returns, Marvels, classics like that. But you knew that.

I also like The Ultimates (1 and 2, ongoing series) basically because it is Millar (who did The Authority after Ellis) doing a Authority style take on The Avengers in Marvels "Ultimate" continuity, and it worked for me. I just read Ultimate Fantastic Four 1 and 2 for the first time, and enjoyed them, but not enough to really recommend them.

Oh, and if you like classic era Marvel foofarah, may I recommend the Walt Simonson's Beta Ray Bill book is great. But then, I'm a HUGE fan of Simonson's Thor stuff, so take that with a grain of salt.

-Yook

Yook · Post by **Yook** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 9:18 pm

Quick note: Just read "The Ministry of Space" by Warren Ellis, and it is real neat.

I'm about to read his "Global Frequency" books (I believe there are two currently available), hopefully they will also be neat.

-Yook

jute gyte · Post by **jute gyte** » Sat Jun 18, 2005 7:45 am

Yook wrote: The Filth

yeah, grant morrison is really wonderful. i notice you don't list the invisibles, which is surely his masterpiece. check it out.

sparks · Post by **sparks** » Sat Jun 18, 2005 8:59 am

Now here are some clips from a great graphic novel:

http://www.livejournal.com/users/theferrett/519211.html

Yook · Post by **Yook** » Sat Jun 18, 2005 12:21 pm

Re: The Invisibles - I have plans to purchase the trades for that in bunches over the coming weeks. I got into a Warren Ellis kick this week and got a bunch of his books.

Sparks, that is an awesome graphic novel, you are correct. Hah!

Brick Pig · Post by **Brick Pig** » Sun Jul 17, 2005 3:19 pm

I'm currently collecting the 'trade paperback' collections of the ongoing "Y: The Last Man" series. I love reading the monthly issues, but it's even better re-reading the series in big chunks each time I get a new volume of the collected issues. I wish they'd make this into a TV series.

I wish they'd make a TV series from "Gotham Central" too.