The Law, The Police, and YOU.

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Officer O'Mally is

a thug!
4
24%
useless lying thug!
6
35%
positive part of our community there to keep the peace.
4
24%
conditioned part of our society there to USE his piece!
1
6%
I just don't know anymore...
2
12%
 
Total votes: 17
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Postby Adam! » Tue Jan 29, 2008 11:31 pm

I'm seriously afraid of law enforcement. People say if you've done nothing you have nothing to be afraid of; that naively deifies police officers, suggesting omniscience. I don't even like driving with a cop car behind me: it makes me extremely nervous, and I almost always pull over and let them pass... which probably looks suspicious. It doesn't help that I definitely have a bit of a problem with authority figures. It also doesn't help that the cops around here recently KILLED a Polish immigrant at the airport (who spoke no english, but also made no threatening movements toward the officers).

I suspect this will be me someday.
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Postby bz£ » Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:21 am

Hoblit wrote:Yes, they were SWAT...but that doesn't alleviate any of their responsibility of properly assessing a situation and diffusing it appropriately. They should even be MORE skilled at figuring out who their targets SHOULD be.

SWAT teams usually don't get called out for fun; their "targets" were probably "everyone who wanders into this area and clearly doesn't belong."

I'm surprised that the other guys didn't react, though. I think you're lucky not to have had half a dozen guns pointed at you. Obviously you're innocent but they don't know that, and it doesn't help that you didn't act like it (by walking away, apologising quietly).

Obscurity's story is similar. The asthma thing is deplorable--that could have been fatal, I know, I've been hospitalised for it a couple of times--but you can't really blame the police for being suspicious if they found you in a car full of stolen goods. You know you're innocent and it's all just a mix-up, but they can't exactly take your word for it. They checked into it and let you go; that's about what I'd expect.

EDIT: And the Circuit City guy deserved to get arrested. You have the right to act like a criminal, and you should expect to be treated like one when you do.
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Postby Caravan Ray » Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:59 am

bz£ wrote:Obscurity's story is similar. The asthma thing is deplorable--that could have been fatal, I know, I've been hospitalised for it a couple of times--but you can't really blame the police for being suspicious if they found you in a car full of stolen goods. You know you're innocent and it's all just a mix-up, but they can't exactly take your word for it. They checked into it and let you go; that's about what I'd expect.

Obscurity's story was really a nightmare - but yes, (despite the asthma thing) the police did have reason to believe that something dodgy may be afoot. I mean, leave it out guv, if a geezer is gunna frequent dodgy boozers with tea-leafs, he's got to expect that old Plod is going to stitch him like a kipper, yeah?....(oops...slipping into The Bill- speak again - I hate that).

Hoblit on the other hand, was obviously just a harmless drunken idiot waddling aimless down the street in an alcoholic stupor shouting random abuse. He didn't need the roughing up treatment - just a wink, a smile and perhaps a gentle "I think it's time you went home son..."
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Postby Hoblit » Wed Jan 30, 2008 4:57 am

bz£ wrote:
Hoblit wrote:Yes, they were SWAT...but that doesn't alleviate any of their responsibility of properly assessing a situation and diffusing it appropriately. They should even be MORE skilled at figuring out who their targets SHOULD be.

SWAT teams usually don't get called out for fun; their "targets" were probably "everyone who wanders into this area and clearly doesn't belong."

I'm surprised that the other guys didn't react, though. I think you're lucky not to have had half a dozen guns pointed at you. Obviously you're innocent but they don't know that, and it doesn't help that you didn't act like it (by walking away, apologising quietly).

Obscurity's story is similar. The asthma thing is deplorable--that could have been fatal...but you can't really blame the police for being suspicious if they found you in a car full of stolen goods. You know you're innocent and it's all just a mix-up, but they can't exactly take your word for it. They checked into it and let you go; that's about what I'd expect.

<font size="1"><i>Note: There were about 400,000 people at the festival that day and about a thousand walking up that street at that very moment.</i></font>
SWAT wasn't 'called' out there. They were 'stationed' there along the side street along with a couple of Ambulances, fire trucks, and a few other government vehicles. They were most obviously chillin' and were on hand just in case something happened at the festival. I didn't see any rifles just their side arms attached at the hip. The fact that the other guys did NOTHING at all seems to suggest that they didn't think I was anything near a threat. I WAS apologizing when the officer started shouting the sarcasm.

Caravan Ray wrote:
bz£ wrote:Obscurity's story is similar. The asthma thing is deplorable--that could have been fatal, I know, ...but you can't really blame the police for being suspicious if they found you in a car full of stolen goods. You know you're innocent and it's all just a mix-up, but they can't exactly take your word for it. They checked into it and let you go; that's about what I'd expect.

Obscurity's story was really a nightmare - but yes, (despite the asthma thing) the police did have reason to believe that something dodgy may be afoot.

Hoblit on the other hand, was obviously just a harmless drunken idiot waddling aimless down the street in an alcoholic stupor shouting random abuse. He didn't need the roughing up treatment - just a wink, a smile and perhaps a gentle "I think it's time you went home son..."


Ha @ drunken idiot. I wasn't that drunk....YET :D Although, I must have had a pretty good buzz to think that the officer would think my sarcasm was as funny as his.
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Postby king_arthur » Wed Jan 30, 2008 6:39 am

So the last time I was pulled over by the police, I was stopped at a light and a police car came up behind me with the lights flashing. Since I was in the right lane, I pulled around the corner so they could get through. The police car followed me around the corner and pulled up behind me, and the policewoman got out and walked up to my car.

"I'm sorry, I forgot to turn my lights off. You're fine, have a nice day."

So much for my brush with the law...

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Postby Hoblit » Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:14 am

king_arthur wrote:So the last time I was pulled over by the police, I was stopped at a light and a police car came up behind me with the lights flashing. Since I was in the right lane, I pulled around the corner so they could get through. The police car followed me around the corner and pulled up behind me, and the policewoman got out and walked up to my car.

"I'm sorry, I forgot to turn my lights off. You're fine, have a nice day."

So much for my brush with the law...

Charles (KA)


Weird. Maybe she thought you were somebody else or something. She could have just easily turned off her lights and kept going without turning the corner with you. Strange. But hey, cool.
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Postby roymond » Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:39 am

I got my first speeding ticket last summer in VT (noted in daily roll call) where the cop was charmed by my boys in the back being afraid I'd be arrested and no one would pick them up. He reduced the speed so I wouldn't get as many points.

Years ago I pulled over on the shoulder to deal with my oldest son who was absolutely wailing (and had GI issues to boot) so needed immediate attention. When the cop approached with lights ablaze and saw the scene, he backed off with that "oh...sorry...as you were...take care of that...sorry" expression.

Moral of the story...push the limits only when kids are there to provide cover.
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Postby Hoblit » Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:00 am

roymond wrote:Morale of the story...push the limits only when kids are there to provide cover.


Which just keeps on illustrating my point! :D We shouldn't be this guarded around civilian authority.

You've also illustrated that your kids are growing up to fear the police. I remember growing up respecting the police and was taught that they were approachable and even nice!

Now, I've learned otherwise over the years where obviously yeah, you can't go up to a cop and start anything. There is a certain amount of RESPECT we SHOULD HAVE, I know...I would never argue that. But it seems to be a sad state of affairs when we have to be so guarded around people that we should be considering friendly.
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Postby Spud » Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:54 am

A slightly different inflection is all it would have taken.

"You're calling ME a genius?"

I have had an incident with the law. I believe that it has been documented previously in these lofty pages.

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Postby Hoblit » Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:06 am

Spud wrote:A slightly different inflection is all it would have taken.

"You're calling ME a genius?"

I have had an incident with the law. I believe that it has been documented previously in these lofty pages.

SPUD


No, apparently I should have put my hands up and begged them for my forgiveness and shouted a stern yes or no "sir" to anything they said. I'm becoming very disenfranchised with this country more and more every day.

I've read your story before and it just burns me up how much resource it takes to just keep things like they are supposed to. It just takes one authority figure to royally screw everything up.

<a href="http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080129/NEWS02/801290321/1007/NEWS05" target="resource window">I'm looking at the 'charges' in this article</a> and I don't see any actual law broken, yet they have their liquor license suspended and have to spend time and resources to prove their case just because the city probably holds some kind of grudge.

Maybe I should stop listening to punk rock, put on some Michael Bolton, and go shopping like a good little citizen. (THATS SARCASM, please don't hurt me)
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Postby obscurity » Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:27 am

bz£ wrote:Obscurity's story is similar. The asthma thing is deplorable--that could have been fatal, I know, I've been hospitalised for it a couple of times--but you can't really blame the police for being suspicious if they found you in a car full of stolen goods. You know you're innocent and it's all just a mix-up, but they can't exactly take your word for it. They checked into it and let you go; that's about what I'd expect.


I have no problem with them arresting me - even though they didn't know the car was full of stolen goods at that point - it's perfectly reasonable. My problems:

1) the contempt with which I was treated (and my post probably didn't make this very clear). I firmly believe that if you're going to deprive someone of their liberty based on nothing more than a hunch, you should treat them like a human being while you're doing it. I was treated like I had already been found guilty, and was the scum of the earth. Even when I was in the middle of a life-threatening medical emergency caused by their lack of concern for my wellbeing (despite me warning them of the danger, remember!), the cop acted like I was just being a huge pain in the arse. And that was typical of the attitude of the other officers while I was detained, it was as if my arrest was proof of my guilt and I should be asking for forgiveness or something.

2), you shouldn't search someone's property without proper authorisation. Remember, at the time the form to search my flat was signed, the police had not in fact even heard of me. It seems they have their inspectors sign blank forms for them to fill in the details later, and that's just plain wrong. What made this particularly galling was that it came on top of the air of moral superiority that I mention above.

If you're going to treat me like a criminal while happily bending the rules (and thus breaking the law) yourself, I'm going to think you're a fucking tosser.

So, no, it's not about being arrested itself, under the circumstances that was entirely reasonable.
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Postby Billy's Little Trip » Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:38 am

It sounded like you handled your end good, Hobz. After you got yourself in the muck, you cooperated. I'm not sure how I would have responded. I guess it depends on how many drinks I had in me. My rationality tends to diminish as my blood alcohol level increases. I'm actually a mellow drunk, but incapable of making good decisions, lol. There is a good chance that if I were in your situation and he asked me if I think sarcasm is funny now, I would have responded by saying, fuck you! Needless to say, it wouldn't have ended well.........for me anyway. So you should pat yourself on the back for taking the high road and not giving into the prick. He wanted a fight you stole it from him. :wink:
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Postby roymond » Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:41 am

Hoblit wrote:
roymond wrote:Morale of the story...push the limits only when kids are there to provide cover.

Which just keeps on illustrating my point! :D We shouldn't be this guarded around civilian authority.

Oh, now, let's not get carried away with how fearful my kids are or where they do or don't get that from. The whole incident was rather light hearted and punctuated with laughter, including the cop and the kids. Flashing lights alarm people of all ages because that's what they're designed to do. There was no air of foreboding. My kids ask whatever comes to mind. That's how I raise 'em...to be curious. When a 5 year old asks if they'll arrest me and take me away it's because he's never been pulled over before and police deal with "bad guys". File under "cute".
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Postby Hoblit » Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:20 pm

roymond wrote:
Hoblit wrote:
roymond wrote:Morale of the story...push the limits only when kids are there to provide cover.

Which just keeps on illustrating my point! :D We shouldn't be this guarded around civilian authority.

Oh, now, let's not get carried away with how fearful my kids are or where they do or don't get that from. The whole incident was rather light hearted and punctuated with laughter, including the cop and the kids. Flashing lights alarm people of all ages because that's what they're designed to do. There was no air of foreboding. My kids ask whatever comes to mind. That's how I raise 'em...to be curious. When a 5 year old asks if they'll arrest me and take me away it's because he's never been pulled over before and police deal with "bad guys". File under "cute".


And hence the smiley face.

I'm not trying to get carried away. My mom got pulled over once and the cop made her drive us all to the police station. That was terrifying. We had to wait for my dad to show up at the police station to pick us all up. This was all over my mom's drivers license was from one state, the insurance from the state we were living in and the car was registered in a different state. (We had just moved and they had just bought the car less than a week before)
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Postby roymond » Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:55 pm

Hoblit wrote:And hence the smiley face.

As I have demonstrated on these boards time and again, I am at times incapable of detecting any amount of nuance or innuendo, no matter how hard the blunt instrument is that you wrap it around to pound me with .
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Postby Tonamel » Wed Jan 30, 2008 4:43 pm

My gut reaction when reading that was to turn to one of the other officers, and ask them to arrest the guy who manhandled you (without the intent of ever pressing charges, mind you), so that

1) The issue gets moved to a less emotionally charged policeman, and

2) Maybe the jerk would realize how inappropriate his actions were.

Of course, it would never work out like that in real life, and I'd probably end up spending the night somewhere unpleasant :?
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Postby Reist » Wed Jan 30, 2008 6:03 pm

I know some nice cops, but there's definitely some power-tripping ones out there too. A girl who I indirectly know got 2 tickets a few weeks ago. A cop caught her smoking (she's underage, of course ... she claims she was just holding it for someone, but that's another story). When the cop was writing the ticket, she was pretty pissed. So pissed, in fact, that when he was leaving, she tore the ticket in half and threw it on the ground. That's when he came back to charge her for littering, and he gave her a warning. Soon after, they gave her a $1000 ticket for climbing on a school roof because she hadn't needed their warning.

Some people just have no luck.
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Postby anti-m » Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:52 pm

Caravan Ray wrote:I mean, leave it out guv, if a geezer is gunna frequent dodgy boozers with tea-leafs, he's got to expect that old Plod is going to stitch him like a kipper, yeah?....(oops...slipping into The Bill- speak again - I hate that).


I just finished the book City of Tiny Lights which is full of this variety of patois. What the hell is it?

I have had good and bad run ins with the cops. Here in Portland we have had our share of police... um... issues.

The weirdest run in I ever had was when I cop stopped me on a deserted street at about 6:00am. I was on my way to work (WALKING to the busstop) when he pulled up and demanded to know my name.
My last name.
Where I was going.
(? Do I look like a hooker for dudes who get off on corporate-clad-bleary eyed hipsters?)
When I insisted I was on my way to work, and asked him what on earth this was all about, he simply grumbled something about "looking for someone who matched my description" and blundered off.

Girls are somewhat less likely to get beat up / knocked around by the cops, I think.

My favorite cop story though, is one my friend Seth tells. He got caught speeding through one of the states in the deep south with Vermont plates. The cop sneered at him, "No one goes that fast through my state." To which Seth replied, "Sherman did!"

The rest of his encounter with the officer was less than cordial.
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Postby Rabid Garfunkel » Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:14 pm

Caravan Ray wrote:I mean, leave it out guv, if a geezer is gunna frequent dodgy boozers with tea-leafs, he's got to expect that old Plod is going to stitch him like a kipper, yeah?....(oops...slipping into The Bill- speak again - I hate that).

O... kay. If a man is going to go to low-class bars with thieves... got that part, but stich him like a kipper?

Oh, put him in the can, duh. Unless that's more of that rhyming slang, eh?

I think you should talk like that all the time, CRay. Or maybe another new persona is in order for you, heh :wink:
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Postby Caravan Ray » Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:56 pm

Rabid Garfunkel wrote:
Caravan Ray wrote:I mean, leave it out guv, if a geezer is gunna frequent dodgy boozers with tea-leafs, he's got to expect that old Plod is going to stitch him like a kipper, yeah?....(oops...slipping into The Bill- speak again - I hate that).

O... kay. If a man is going to go to low-class bars with thieves... got that part, but stich him like a kipper?

Oh, put him in the can, duh. Unless that's more of that rhyming slang, eh?

I think it actually means "to set up", or somthing like that. Who knows.

Don't you people get The Bill over there? It is on about 3 times a week here. (I think it is England's revenge for Neighbours). It is basically the world's worst police show. Hour after hour of impenetrable accents and cups of tea. For some reason though - it seems to be compulsary viewing for everybody over the age of about 60.
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Postby HeuristicsInc » Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:04 pm

Rabid Garfunkel wrote:O... kay. If a man is going to go to low-class bars with thieves


Nah, I think the tea leaves is pot.
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Postby Billy's Little Trip » Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:07 pm

Caravan Ray wrote:
Rabid Garfunkel wrote:
Caravan Ray wrote:I mean, leave it out guv, if a geezer is gunna frequent dodgy boozers with tea-leafs, he's got to expect that old Plod is going to stitch him like a kipper, yeah?....(oops...slipping into The Bill- speak again - I hate that).

O... kay. If a man is going to go to low-class bars with thieves... got that part, but stich him like a kipper?

Oh, put him in the can, duh. Unless that's more of that rhyming slang, eh?

I think it actually means "to set up", or somthing like that. Who knows.


I would guess it means something along the lines of "hanging him out to dry" or something like that. kipper, is to salt meat and hang it to dry. Kipper Herring is salted and smoked. Stitch? Not sure.

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