New Hampshire!

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Hoblit
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Postby Hoblit » Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:38 pm

Generic wrote:Votes in the primary.


Which candidate won't receive if they can't generate at least $35,000 to begin with.

*Hoblit hands Generic's clever snark back to him for polishing.
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Postby Sober » Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:53 pm

If the debate over Hillary/Obama's electablility were truly a "white woman vs. black man" debate, I'd likely be with you.

But THIS black man, with his story, his charisma, and his powerful oration versus THIS white woman, with her stigma, mixed record, stiffness, and corporate ties, makes the best bet obvious.

Polls among republicans show that on a national level, republicans really really hate Clinton, but don't mind, or even have a positive view of Barack.

I don't have just hope that Barack will be able to win in the general, I am confident that the US has come far enough in race relations to elect at least this particular man. He is non-threatening, not "overly black," and refuses to play the race card.

Any GOP candidate v. Clinton = tough race, and I'm not thrilled either way. Any GOP candidate besides McCain v. Obama = landslide victory, and America wins either way.

The NH race is looking a little closer than I thought. We'll see how this thing turns out.
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Postby Sober » Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:56 pm

Until major campaign finance reform goes into action, shitbuckets like Romney will continue to come out the woodwork.

McCain has a pretty strong reform policy, if I recall correctly.
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Postby jack » Tue Jan 08, 2008 7:56 pm

while i like mccain in general, he won't win a general election. too many people want out of a war he still favors. he was on "meet the press" the other day and tim russert was grilling him on iraq and he just didn't come across well i think, combative and kind of obstinate, kind of like dubya.

but i do like him, and think he's as honest a politician as you're likely to find when it comes to speaking his mind.
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Postby Reist » Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:04 pm

I don't understand politics ... especially American politics. When it comes time to vote, I just don't vote liberal, since all their leaders are morons. Then again ... next provincial election I might just have to put in my vote against the conservatives ... stelmach is a fool.
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Postby Sober » Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:06 pm

Image
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Postby Generic » Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:19 am

Yeah, I bet you feel pretty dumb, Sober. I was pulling for Obama as well. Oh well.

To Charcoal, Hoblit, Erik, et al., I'll clarify: I personally believe that we shouldn't need monetary benchmarks to determine which candidate has "enough" support. As a democratic nation, we live and die by our government *of the people*. So I say, anyone who wants to go on the Primary ballot should go on the Primary ballot, and let the voters choose.

I'm outspoken on this issue, I know, but I feel like if Stephen Colbert wanted to run for President and nobody took him seriously, then nobody would vote for him. And if enough people did vote for him, then clearly that many people want him in office, so why should he be denied?

C'mon, weren't you told in elementary school that *anyone* can run for president, even you? Didn't you believe it?
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Postby bz£ » Wed Jan 09, 2008 1:07 am

I was told a lot of things in elementary school, and most of them turned out to be untrue. Or misleading, at least. You get over it eventually. (Note to all singer-songwriters, aged seven: Ignore this paragraph, and Santa Claus is real.)

Just because you aren't on a primary ballot doesn't mean you can't run, or aren't in the race. There is a pretty significant difference between "running for president" and "running for president as the nominated candidate for the Republican party," which latter is what requires a registration fee, if I understand it correctly. You do realize that there weren't any Independent Primaries on Tuesday, right?

Money and support are inseparable; one of the main ways we show our support for a candidate is to give them money. Anyone can run for president, but you aren't going to win if you can't afford to take a year off from your job, travel around the country and buy advertising in every available media outlet. Or is that what bothers you? That every Vermin Surprise isn't given free TV commercials, a tour bus and a staff of hundreds? On the taxpayer dime?

Also, you may equate votes for Colbert with people who think he should be the President (and you say "clearly" so I assume so) but I disagree. In my opinion a vote for a guy who is running as a joke says "All the major candidates are the same to me because I don't care enough to educate myself on their differences, so it doesn't matter to me who actually wins. Might as well vote for the guy who is funny because my vote is wasted no matter who I cast it for."
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Postby erik » Wed Jan 09, 2008 6:53 am

Generic wrote:C'mon, weren't you told in elementary school that *anyone* can run for president, even you? Didn't you believe it?


I still think that anyone can run for President.
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Postby jimtyrrell » Wed Jan 09, 2008 6:58 am

Nah, even then we were told of the provisions: you had to be 35, you had to have been born in this country, and you had to have held public office before (I don't remember what the specifics are on that one).

But yeah. You won't necessarily win the presidency if you have a lot of money, but you'll definitely lose if you don't.
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Postby jimtyrrell » Wed Jan 09, 2008 7:10 am

For the curious: here's the NH ballots.

Republican
Democratic

I found it odd to be voting for a Vice-President at this stage. Don't the candidates normally pick their own running mate? Not knowing anyone on the ballot, and seeing no way to make any better use of the option, I wrote in Jello Biafra.

Also: here is the best concise tally of votes I've been able to find. Looks like ol' Vermin Supreme got 41 votes. (Mine was not one of them.)
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Postby king_arthur » Wed Jan 09, 2008 7:32 am

Al Gore for VP. So I can get some more wear out of those old t-shirts...

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Postby Caravan Ray » Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:50 pm

bz£ wrote:Just because you aren't on a primary ballot doesn't mean you can't run, or aren't in the race. There is a pretty significant difference between "running for president" and "running for president as the nominated candidate for the Republican party," which latter is what requires a registration fee, if I understand it correctly. You do realize that there weren't any Independent Primaries on Tuesday, right?

This is what I am finding so weird. Why weren't there weren't any Independent or Other Party Primaries on Tuesday? These primaries don't seem to actually be part of your electoral system - they are merely procedural matters of the respective parties. Yet both major parties are selecting their candidates in exactly the same states on exactly the same day! This appears to legitimise the process to the point that it appears to be an official part of your country's electoral system. In the business world that would be seen as collusion and a gross breach of trade practices legislation.
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Postby Hoblit » Wed Jan 09, 2008 3:24 pm

king_arthur wrote:Al Gore for VP. So I can get some more wear out of those old t-shirts...

Charles (KA)


...and so a gazillion faded bumper stickers will be relevant again! :P :P :lol: :P :P
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Postby Caravan Ray » Wed Jan 09, 2008 3:45 pm

I have a "Free David Hicks" T-shirt that is now very cool and retro.
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Postby bz£ » Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:02 pm

Caravan Ray wrote:These primaries don't seem to actually be part of your electoral system - they are merely procedural matters of the respective parties. Yet both major parties are selecting their candidates in exactly the same states on exactly the same day! This appears to legitimise the process to the point that it appears to be an official part of your country's electoral system. In the business world that would be seen as collusion and a gross breach of trade practices legislation.

You've got it, basically. I suppose the reason why it's done in such an official manner is simplicity. New Hampshire is a small state but they still had something like three hundred thousand people voting, and you might as well get them all out of the way at once.

Voting is usually done at local schools, which is a big hassle for them; some will even cancel classes for the day. You don't really want that to take longer than it has to.

In a sense, though, the primaries are a legitimate part of the system. The two candidates who emerge will technically be just two more people who are running for president, but in reality they're the only two with any hope of winning.
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Postby Caravan Ray » Wed Jan 09, 2008 6:16 pm

Sober wrote:McCain has a pretty strong reform policy, if I recall correctly.

Heh! I know nothing at all about McCain - but they just showed a glimpse of him on the news. He has a laugh like Elmer Fudd!!!! :lol:

He'd make a great President (and a cartoonists dream)
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Postby Me$$iah » Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:05 pm

Caravan Ray wrote:McCain -. He has a laugh like Elmer Fudd!!!! :lol:


I seen probly the same clip... and thought exactly the same thing ..


hehe
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Postby Sober » Thu Jan 10, 2008 12:04 am

jimtyrrell wrote:Nah, even then we were told of the provisions: you had to be 35, you had to have been born in this country, and you had to have held public office before (I don't remember what the specifics are on that one).


Just nit-picking: the specifics on that one are that it's not true. Al Sharpton has never held public office, and has run at least once. Jesse Jackson had never held office at the time of his first run. It is a practical requirement, just as being a white christian male has been for so long, but it is not an official requirement.

35, natural-born citizen, has lived in the country for the last 14 years. That's it. Even convicted felons can run.
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Postby Hoblit » Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:18 am

Sober wrote: Even convicted felons can run.


Which is funny because they can't vote.

<font size="1">Yes I know, they can if they go through a whole ;rigamaroue of paperwork and junk.</font>
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Postby jimtyrrell » Thu Jan 10, 2008 6:56 am

I stand corrected! I honestly thought you were required to have some sort of previous govt. experience. Huh.

Hey! That means I'm an eligible candidate RIGHT NOW. :twisted: It also means I have a better chance of becoming president than Schwarzenegger!*


*for now
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Postby Sober » Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:04 am

Yeah, there was talk of altering that part of the Constitution, to make it so that you didn't have to be a natural-born citizen. They were looking at something like having to be a naturalized citizen and changing the US residency requirement to 20 years instead of 14.

I suppose that you might think of that part of the Constitution as unconstitutional. It directly discriminates against immigrants, and what about people born on vacation/military bases (I think people born on-base are American, but people born off-base get the shaft?)? My mother was in Mexico 3 days before I was born. I wouldn't want something like that to keep me from the highest office.

But really, fuck Schwarzenegger.
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