All Water under the bridge ...

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All Water under the bridge ...

Postby roymond » Wed Feb 13, 2008 2:33 pm

Interesting read on the impact of the bottled water industry...

"It takes 162g of oil and seven litres of water (including power plant cooling water) just to manufacture a one-litre bottle, creating over 100g of greenhouse gas emissions (10 balloons full of CO2) per empty bottle. Extrapolate this for the developed world (2.4m tonnes of plastic are used to bottle water each year) and it represents serious oil use for what is essentially a single-use object. To make the 29bn plastic bottles used annually in the US, the world's biggest consumer of bottled water, requires more than 17m barrels of oil a year, enough to fuel more than a million cars for a year."

OK, I asked a stupid questionback then.
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Postby anti-m » Wed Feb 13, 2008 2:43 pm

Penn and Teller did a nice "Bullshit" on this very subject!
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Re: All Water under the bridge ...

Postby Caravan Ray » Wed Feb 13, 2008 3:00 pm

roymond wrote:
OK, I asked a stupid questionback then.


And i'll repeat my answer from back then:
Caravan Ray wrote:Bottled water is the single biggest scam pulled on society since Milli Vanilli. It's perpetrators should be lined up against a wall and shot. It is one of the best schemes for taking money off the gullible yet devised.


Things still need to be kept in perspective though - yes, selling individually bottled and labelled water is a terrible waste of resources - but don't attack the water and overlook everything else in the milk-bar fridge. All of the soft drink, juice, beer, whatever served in little individual packages is also a terrible waste of resouces in the name of convenience (and the energy going into producing all the other different drinks will far exceed that for producing the bottled water, which in most cases just comes out of the tap anyway). Besides - I actually do re-use the old water bottles I occasionally buy for carrying drinking water in the car, or when I go to work etc.

Solutions:

- Plant an orange tree
- Install a rainwater tank
- Brew your own beer and bottle in old PET soft drink bottles
- Slap a on a big fat tax that places waste disposal costs back on manufacturers
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Postby HeuristicsInc » Wed Feb 13, 2008 8:02 pm

I have heard that re-using disposable plastic bottles causes bacterial growths in the bottles and opens yourself to more infection.

We started using these:
Image
http://www.mysigg.com/

These are cool, metal bottles that are reusable and very fashionable. I have gotten many compliments on my water bottles since we started using them :)
Also, they are Swiss.
Actually I had one in NYC.
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Postby Caravan Ray » Wed Feb 13, 2008 8:25 pm

HeuristicsInc wrote:I have heard that re-using disposable plastic bottles causes bacterial growths in the bottles and opens yourself to more infection.


I have heard that believing silly un-based theories relating to what is good for you can cause personal financial decline and opens yourself to owing a surfeit of unnecessary Swiss metal water bottles.

Actually a reusable metal bottle is a good idea - it should last a long time. I just don't buy the bacteria thing. One would think that if the plastic were so susceptible to bacteria growth - it wouldn't be used for food-stuffs in the first place. Try leaving the lid off your metal bottle regularly, sharing it with pre-school children and never washing it. Then count all the expensive Swiss bacteria you find growing in there.


.....
Hmmm...just looked at the website. For such an "eco-friendly" company - they seem to be pushing an awful lot of unnecessary "water bottle accessories"! Accessories!?!? WTF? Its a WATER BOTTLE! Any way, like I always say - never trust the Swiss.
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Postby HeuristicsInc » Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:01 pm

Whether the bacteria thing is true or not, do wash your bottle between uses.
But the main reason we bought them is to cut down on plastic use and such.
The only accessory we got is one sleeve.
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Postby Me$$iah » Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:06 pm

hahaha

I fooled myself then...

I seen the thread topic, and when I looked CRay was the last poster, so I figured this was gonna be about Rudd apologising to the aboriginals..

oh well, I guess its not..

so on topic,
Down with the evil bottled water pushers.... and no to flouride in drinking water
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Postby Caravan Ray » Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:28 pm

Me$$iah wrote:....and no to flouride in drinking water
Hooray for fluoride!!! Our socialist government in Queensland has finally decided to add it to our water! The inbreds and the rednecks don't like it - but you can never please them, can you Messiah :lol:

Bring on the World Government!


BTW - what did you want to say about the apology? For mine - I think Kevvy Rudd kicked a very big goal yesterday. He was very statesmanlike. As to the practical value of the gesture itself - it was an important step towards Aboriginal reconciliation, but so was the Mabo decision in 1992 (Mabo was probably far more significant) - and it really didn't change much for the lives of most Aboriginal people. We can only hope though.
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Postby anti-m » Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:48 pm

Caravan Ray wrote:
HeuristicsInc wrote:I have heard that re-using disposable plastic bottles causes bacterial growths in the bottles and opens yourself to more infection.


I have heard that believing silly un-based theories relating to what is good for you can cause personal financial decline and opens yourself to owing a surfeit of unnecessary Swiss metal water bottles.


Well, I dunno about bacteria -- but there is SOME evidence that the stuff used in the manufacture of plastics may not be great for you. Eh... whatever. Really, the reason to use a Sigg-type bottle is that it's really nice to drink out of a really cold metal bottle. Mmm. Frosty!
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Postby Caravan Ray » Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:16 pm

anti-m wrote:
Caravan Ray wrote:
HeuristicsInc wrote:I have heard that re-using disposable plastic bottles causes bacterial growths in the bottles and opens yourself to more infection.


I have heard that believing silly un-based theories relating to what is good for you can cause personal financial decline and opens yourself to owing a surfeit of unnecessary Swiss metal water bottles.


Well, I dunno about bacteria -- but there is SOME evidence that the stuff used in the manufacture of plastics may not be great for you!

Show me :twisted:
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Postby Me$$iah » Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:21 pm

:lol:


hehe Ray... you a funny guy..


seriously tho, I gotta say about the apology, that I thought it was an excellent thing to do. Well done that man. I would like to point out the fact that all Kevins are naturally blessed with intellect, talent and just damn good looks. This raises thier statesman like qualities to almost superhuman. :D

I really hope it does bring change for the aboriginal peoples and can help with the recociliation effort.

Again, good job that dude.



I am as awlays tho cynical about everything, I so hope this isnt just hot air blowing this'll make me more popular votes votes Blairite legacy building PR bullshit
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Postby Me$$iah » Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:26 pm

And you know I just cant let it go...



Flouride is not good... Danger... badd stuff... evil.... Goodwins law...
industrial waste... sociallism...mass forced medication...not nice....NO
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Postby anti-m » Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:41 pm

Caravan Ray wrote:Show me :twisted:


http://www.fda.gov/FDAC/features/2002/602_plastic.html

The article acknowledges that plasticizer seems to be potentially dangerous stuff.

Now, I know -- you're going to point out the part where they say "levels well below those shown to show sickness in laboratory animals." And I AGREE with you. I still microwave veggies in plastic bags. That's why I emphasized SOME. SOME evidence. Is it definitive? No.

So... I dunno.

I guess if I die by cancer inflicted by microwaved Brussels sprouts, then I shouldn't have wagered on these odds. I'll at least get a prize for having the least rock 'n' roll death ever.

...But I drink out of a metal bottle 'cause it tastes better.

:D

(I also wish Portland would fluoridate its drinking water.)
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Postby Caravan Ray » Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:02 pm

Me$$iah wrote::
seriously tho, I gotta say about the apology, that I thought it was an excellent thing to do.

Yes - there has been some talk that maybe now the descendants of British convicts should seek an apology from the Queen for their ancestors being forcibly removed from their homes. But - after thinking about it - if they didn't send the convicts here, we'd all still be English - so we're going to send the Queen a "Thank You" card instead. Maybe The Queen owes the Aboriginals an apology too, for sending us here.

Actually - she probably does. It was the British Government deeming Australia "terra nullis" (unoccupied land) that really is at the crux of much of the mistreatment of Aboriginals over the years. Even a dodgy treaty is better than just being totally ignored or being treated like part of the native fauna.



Me$$iah wrote::
I am as awlays tho cynical about everything, I so hope this isnt just hot air blowing this'll make me more popular votes votes Blairite legacy building PR bullshit

It will make KRudd very popular - and he will be loving every minute - but the apology was a no-brainer. It should have been done 10 years ago (at least).

The "Bring Them Home" Report published in 1995 found:

Indigenous families and communities have endured gross violations of their human rights. These violations continue to affect Indigenous people's daily lives. They were an act of genocide, aimed at wiping out Indigenous families, communities and cultures, vital to the precious and inalienable heritage of Australia.

It was recommended at the time that the Australian Parliament apologise to Aboriginal people and officially acknowledge past mistreatment by the Australian Government.

For over 11 years that slimy little piece of scum, our former Prime Minister Mr Howard refused to act on the recommendations of that report. Just one more reason why I would not piss on that man if he was on fire. Interesting to note that every living past PM except one was in Parliament yesterday. I don't think little Johnny would have been made very welcome.
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Postby Caravan Ray » Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:06 pm

anti-m wrote:
Caravan Ray wrote:Show me :twisted:


http://www.fda.gov/FDAC/features/2002/602_plastic.html

The article acknowledges that plasticizer seems to be potentially dangerous stuff

Do you microwave your drinking bottles?
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Postby Caravan Ray » Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:17 pm

Me$$iah wrote:Flouride is not good... Danger...

From which learned publication did you derive that opinion?

Perhaps it came from some of that very valuable data currently being collected by those intrepid Japanese scientists in the Antarctic Whale Sanctuary?
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Postby anti-m » Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:35 pm

Caravan Ray wrote:
anti-m wrote:
Caravan Ray wrote:Show me :twisted:


http://www.fda.gov/FDAC/features/2002/602_plastic.html

The article acknowledges that plasticizer seems to be potentially dangerous stuff

Do you microwave your drinking bottles?


Sigh. My point is -- they are made with toxic stuff. Does that mean that they are toxic? Probably not.

Jesus, can we talk about fibromyalgia or something now?

:lol:
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Postby Me$$iah » Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:21 am

Caravan Ray wrote:
Me$$iah wrote:Flouride is not good... Danger...

From which learned publication did you derive that opinion?...


Dude I gots me the intarnets


Caravan Ray wrote:Perhaps it came from those intrepid Japanese scientists in the Antarctic Whale Sanctuary?


:lol:
You cant let it go...
Look, I figure whale hunting is okay. I support whale hunting. I know people dont like it, but hey, I think the whale has been saved, Now we can hunt again, which in turn will do wonders for the sea. I figure we can kill some whale, thus eat less other fish, the krill will increase in numbers, offering a good food source for other fish. I think the whole sea would improve with more life as a result. I mean not hunting whales at all is just not natural.
And lets be fair if the whale still hasnt been saved after all this time, then just maybe it time to let it go. Animals become extinct all the time, always have and always will. One day we will to, so will the whales and the polar bears etc. Thats just the way it is. The thylacine is gone and so is the pteradon, see, it happens all the time. Just recently Attenborough told me in S America they collected up all the golden frogs left in the wild, so they could save em in zoos. Its a shame that the last of a species get to pass on into history in a cage, theres no respect for life there. Let em go, and die off with dignaty at least.
Meanwhile whislt we argue about the morality of killing whales, whether its right or wrong to turn a whale into meat, and eat it, children are starving to death.

Whales are just another animal. One more combatant in the whole man v nature battle.
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Postby Caravan Ray » Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:52 am

Me$$iah wrote: ...one more combatant in the whole man v nature battle.

:lol: "man v nature battle"!!!! Look out - it's Daffyd Boone, taming the wilds of the Welsh Frontier!

This "man v nature battle" you speak of - is that like a War on Terrorism? :lol:

Me$$iah wrote:I mean not hunting whales at all is just not natural.

Yes, of course you are right. Traditional Japanese fisherfolk have been sending their GPS and sonar assisted factory ships to the Antarctic for centuries.
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Postby Caravan Ray » Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:59 am

anti-m wrote:
Caravan Ray wrote:
anti-m wrote:
Caravan Ray wrote:Show me :twisted:


http://www.fda.gov/FDAC/features/2002/602_plastic.html

The article acknowledges that plasticizer seems to be potentially dangerous stuff

Do you microwave your drinking bottles?


Sigh. My point is -- they are made with toxic stuff. Does that mean that they are toxic? Probably not.

Jesus, can we talk about fibromyalgia or something now?

:lol:

Actually - there is one very dangerous chemical that can be absorbed into human tissue from plastic water bottles. Studies have shown that they can contain dihydrogen monoxide
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Postby blue » Thu Feb 14, 2008 1:35 am

Caravan Ray wrote:
anti-m wrote:
Caravan Ray wrote:
anti-m wrote:
Caravan Ray wrote:Show me :twisted:


http://www.fda.gov/FDAC/features/2002/602_plastic.html

The article acknowledges that plasticizer seems to be potentially dangerous stuff

Do you microwave your drinking bottles?


Sigh. My point is -- they are made with toxic stuff. Does that mean that they are toxic? Probably not.

Jesus, can we talk about fibromyalgia or something now?

:lol:

Actually - there is one very dangerous chemical that can be absorbed into human tissue from plastic water bottles. Studies have shown that they can contain dihydrogen monoxide


fuck you.
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Postby blue » Thu Feb 14, 2008 1:36 am

anti-m wrote:
Caravan Ray wrote:
anti-m wrote:
Caravan Ray wrote:Show me :twisted:


http://www.fda.gov/FDAC/features/2002/602_plastic.html

The article acknowledges that plasticizer seems to be potentially dangerous stuff

Do you microwave your drinking bottles?


Sigh. My point is -- they are made with toxic stuff. Does that mean that they are toxic? Probably not.

Jesus, can we talk about fibromyalgia or something now?

:lol:


Kaiser Permanente (large health care company here) is doing an official study of Morgellon's over the next couple of months. :D

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