Nur Ein XVI: Round Three "Pleasant Row"

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Nur Ein XVI: Round Three "Pleasant Row"

Post by Niveous »

It's time for the Guest Round!

Submit an original song by June 6th at 11:59 PM (EDT) that fits the following criteria

Title: "Pleasant Row"
Non-optional challenge: Must include a guest singing or speaking in another language.

Send your MP3 to nurein.sidefight@gmail.com

Good luck!
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Re: Nur Ein XVI: Round Three "Pleasant Row"

Post by furrypedro »

Aah the obligatory "Nur Ein + Ein" round. Clearly my protest song from last year fell on deaf ears ;)
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Re: Nur Ein XVI: Round Three "Pleasant Row"

Post by JonPorobil »

Over on the Discord, a heated discussion kicked up about possible loopholes or (mis)interpretations of this challenge. I'm going to try to summarize some of the questions and weigh in. I encourage the other judges to do so as well, especially when they disagree with me.

First up - I kicked the hornet's nest by playfully suggesting (well, I was going for "playfully," but it seems to have frustrated some contestants, for which I apologize) that the guest could technically sing in English, given the wording of the challenge. A big error on my part was that I didn't elaborate right away, so the discussion got away from me a bit. What I intended was that, if you're a Nur Ein contestant and you don't know anyone who's willing and able to speak a different language, then you could be the one speaking the different language and let the guest sing/speak in English. I caveated that I don't speak for the whole panel, but that twist on it would definitely be acceptable to me.

Here's another one that came up. The exact language of the challenge is "Must include a guest singing or speaking in another language." Someone noticed that "In another language" clearly modifies "speaking" but it's logically ambiguous as to whether "In another language" also modifies "Singing." In other words, it reads as: "Must include a guest who either speaks in another language, or sings [in any language]." To that, I say: C'mon guys. If someone enters a song where the main singer is singing in English, and the guest is also singing in English, and there's no hint of another language, none of the judges will reward you for your clever loophole. I encourage all competitors to "read the room" a bit; this one really seems like it didn't need to be said. (And indeed, I think it only came up based on a misinterpretation of the thing I said outside the wording of the challenge, so maybe that's on me.)

It was also brought up that the concept of "language" could be flexibly defined. "If someone sings in pig-latin, for example, would that count?" Personally, I'd lean towards Pig Latin not counting as "another language." Lexically, it's not. It's a predictable set of modifiers on English with no grammar of its own. I concede there might be some wiggle room on this, and I welcome the opinions of the other judges, if anyone happens to be seriously considering using Pig Latin as "another language."

Another case that was brought up as an example would be one where the singer and the guest both sing in, for instance, Spanish. Since all of the songs in the competition (this year, so far, anyway) have been in English, any language other than English could be considered "another" in context. Here I'm ambivalent. I think I have to admit that this would technically meet the requirements. Back in Nur Ein IX, there was the "spoken word bridge" challenge, and we had a discussion about whether a song that was all spoken word actually counted, because technically, as long as it had a bridge, then it would meet the challenge. And again, technically this is true. I would say that's a bit of a weak interpretation, but it counts. If someone has done this, I won't consider that person to have "failed" the challenge, but I kind of doubt that this take on the challenge could generate a "wow" moment from me that would launch you into the top tier. I concede that this is a gray area, and again I welcome input from the other four judges, but I've said my piece about how I personally would react.

I'm pretty sure that covers the "edge cases" that were brought up. I apologize if my comments in the Discord caused any confusion or muddied the waters for anyone. I understand that it can be confusing and frustrating when you have to please five people at once, and there's no guarantee that those five people will see eye to eye (or even that one won't be temporarily replaced with a guest judge!). I just hope you can all follow your own creativity and use the prompt to make music that you think is interesting.
</soapbox>
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Re: Nur Ein XVI: Round Three "Pleasant Row"

Post by heid »

Thank you for the clearing up!

I have a followup question - is the discord meant for judges / administrative folks or is it a server that's open to anyone?
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Re: Nur Ein XVI: Round Three "Pleasant Row"

Post by vowlvom »

heid wrote:
Tue Jun 01, 2021 4:05 pm
I have a followup question - is the discord meant for judges / administrative folks or is it a server that's open to anyone?
It's open to all, this link might get you there, if I understand what I'm doing?

https://discord.gg/baHygMzs
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Re: Nur Ein XVI: Round Three "Pleasant Row"

Post by furrypedro »

There's a discord?! :o
Where can I get the link for this?

Edit: thanks vomit
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Re: Nur Ein XVI: Round Three "Pleasant Row"

Post by Niveous »

Here are my feelings on the loopholes.

Lead singer in another language/ Guest in English
Yes. That counts. In fact, I pictured Moss Palace doing that since Erin sings in Spanish quite well.

Guest singing....or speaking in another language
You know that isn't the challenge. If you wanna play the game that way, you're cheating yourself.

Pig Latin
Pig Latin is not a language. It is a language game. You wouldn't call Spoonerisms a new language, why would you call Pig Latin one?

What about fictional languages like Klingon or High Valyrian?
Those aren't language games, they are conlangs. I would count those.

I wrote a conlang for my song!
You had better show your work and I'm kinda fascinated by conlangs. It's going to lead to a lot of conversations and unless conlangs are really your thing, I do not suggest this route.

Both singers in a foreign language
Nope. If you're singing in Spanish and the guest sings in Spanish, which of you is singing in another language?

Frankly, this is not a hard challenge and if you're wasting time looking for loopholes, you're just wasting time.
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Re: Nur Ein XVI: Round Three "Pleasant Row"

Post by JonPorobil »

Niveous wrote:
Tue Jun 01, 2021 4:45 pm
What about fictional languages like Klingon or High Valyrian?
Those aren't language games, they are conlangs. I would count those.

I wrote a conlang for my song!
You had better show your work and I'm kinda fascinated by conlangs. It's going to lead to a lot of conversations and unless conlangs are really your thing, I do not suggest this route.
I didn't see where these two questions were asked, so sorry if I missed that. But there's no daylight between me and Niveous on these answers. If your guest sings in Klingon or Dothraki, have at it!
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Re: Nur Ein XVI: Round Three "Pleasant Row"

Post by mo »

not that I'm in this or anything but as long as the "normal" vocalist and the guest are speaking different languages from each other, there's no need for any English at all, necessarily, correct?
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Re: Nur Ein XVI: Round Three "Pleasant Row"

Post by owl »

Can both people sing/speak partly in the same language as long as there’s also at least one other language in the song?

I know at least some of the current judges don’t want to read liner notes. Can I assume the judges will at least read the translations of lyrics?
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Re: Nur Ein XVI: Round Three "Pleasant Row"

Post by grumpymike »

I’ve been enjoying the challenges this year. They strike the right balance between difficult and inspiring. Good work, judges!
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Re: Nur Ein XVI: Round Three "Pleasant Row"

Post by seemanski »

Mine is in, this has been the most fun one for me this Nur Ein I really didn't want to let it go because I wanted it to sound better. Massive thanks for Gizo for taking on my google translated French and German, as well as his wonderful little adlibs.
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Re: Nur Ein XVI: Round Three "Pleasant Row"

Post by vowlvom »

Mine is also in. Thank you for Mo and his extremely creative Mandarin insults! This might be my favourite Budget Bears song yet.
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Re: Nur Ein XVI: Round Three "Pleasant Row"

Post by governingdynamics »

In with some guest vocals en Français by Song Fu Champion Joe 'Covenant' Lamb. Excessively dark lyrics courtesy of recent binge watches of YOU and Mare of Easttown.
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Re: Nur Ein XVI: Round Three "Pleasant Row"

Post by Pigfarmer Jr »

mo wrote:
Tue Jun 01, 2021 5:39 pm
not that I'm in this or anything but as long as the "normal" vocalist and the guest are speaking different languages from each other, there's no need for any English at all, necessarily, correct?
I'm only one judge, but... Two languages must be used. The guest must use a different one than the artist. It doesn't matter what the languages are.
owl wrote:
Tue Jun 01, 2021 6:29 pm
Can both people sing/speak partly in the same language as long as there’s also at least one other language in the song?
I'm only one judge, but... If the question is can the guest and artist speak in the same language as long as the guest also speaks in an another language, then the answer is a clear yes, imo.

If the question is can both the artist and the guest speak in both languages then I'm personally cool with that but if the language of the challenge is strictly adhered to then technically the guest must speak in at least one additional language than the artist. (Again, I personally wouldn't count this as a poor implementation of the challenge.)
Non-optional challenge: Must include a guest singing or speaking in another language.
owl wrote:
Tue Jun 01, 2021 6:29 pm
I know at least some of the current judges don’t want to read liner notes. Can I assume the judges will at least read the translations of lyrics?
As long as the translation is in the lyric post and not hidden by a spoiler tag then I'll definitely read it. I encourage it.
I'm not promising to read the spoilers, though.
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Re: Nur Ein XVI: Round Three "Pleasant Row"

Post by noma »

Mine is in. Dreamy woozy kind of sound. Hope the judges like some Lydian mode.
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Re: Nur Ein XVI: Round Three "Pleasant Row"

Post by heid »

Decided to use immunity this week to get some rest and gear up for the next one.
In lieu of a shadow, I think I'm gonna try my hand at writing some reviews, from the perspective of a very not well studied whipper snapper. Really excited to hear what everyone has made!
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Re: Nur Ein XVI: Round Three "Pleasant Row"

Post by glennny »

Cavedwellers are in!
Guest vocals from Martin of Zipline/BSS

Inspired by the board game Kolejka
//boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/85325/kolejka
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Re: Nur Ein XVI: Round Three "Pleasant Row"

Post by Niveous »

glennny wrote:
Sun Jun 06, 2021 7:53 pm
Inspired by the board game Kolejka
//boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/85325/kolejka
Glennny doing a song based on a board game. That's a great idea. BSS should do an album like that. :D
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Re: Nur Ein XVI: Round Three "Pleasant Row"

Post by furrypedro »

glennny wrote:
Sun Jun 06, 2021 7:53 pm
Inspired by the board game Kolejka
//boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/85325/kolejka
Lol. That looks like a barrel of laughs! Looking forward to this one
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Re: Nur Ein XVI: Round Three "Pleasant Row"

Post by Lunkhead »

It's been a heck of a weekend here. We are in, in spite of that. I'd like to recall to the judges' minds the time when Caravan Ray successfully used samples of primates for the "guest family member" challenge in round 3 of Nur Ein IX, "Watertight"...
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Re: Nur Ein XVI: Round Three "Pleasant Row"

Post by glennny »

If you're a WSA Brain Trust fan, you'll also like the Cavedwellers song because there is......

"Speaking in Polish!!!"
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