Nur Ein VIII Round One "Looking Glass"

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Re: Nur Ein VIII- Round One

Post by Manhattan Glutton »

glennny wrote:Was it worth it lyrically to sing about glasses they look at etc, rather than a mirror? I like most of the lyrics, the title feels really shoehorned and confused.
Thanks for the kind and thoughtful words.

The most common popular reference to "Looking Glass" would be Lewis Carol's *Alice in Wonderland* sequel. Wonderland is somewhat of a dystopic reflection of reality. So you see, I cleverly avoid using "looking glass" directly, but imply the dystopia that one sees while "looking through a glass of whiskey". I knew I would get comments like this, so I made the bridge a little more heavy-handed. The bridge directly references a mirror, and hints at a drinking problem. I don't like taking titles literally, much like a lot of people don't like taking the challenges completely literally, so I understand where you're coming from.
Last edited by Manhattan Glutton on Tue Apr 30, 2013 6:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Nur Ein VIII- Round One

Post by Niveous »

According to about.com
Viennese Waltz music belongs to the music genre that accompanied the fast Waltzes of the the Romantic era in Vienna. The music is usually written in 6/8 time with a fast tempo of about 180 beats per minute. Almost always instrumental, Viennese Waltz music is written for orchestras of various sizes. Dancers today enjoy many different styles of Waltz music, many of which are not Viennese. The Vienesse Waltz can be danced to music that is instrumental, vocal, classical, celtic, country, or popular Top 40 hits.
According to Arthur Murray Dance Studios
Viennese Waltz is basically Waltz music played at a much quicker tempo. While slow Waltz is played at 28-36 measures per minute (MPM), Viennese Waltz is played at 50-60 MPM. It is usually played in 3/4 time, but some Viennese Waltz's are written in 6/8 time.
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Re: Nur Ein VIII- Round One

Post by frankie big face »

@Niveous - I saw that answer in about.com but I don't trust the source and I think it's totally inaccurate. The Arthur Murray thing is certainly more reliable and seems more accurate. I'll scout around for some sheet music and see what I come up with.
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Re: Nur Ein VIII- Round One

Post by Niveous »

frankie big face wrote: I'll scout around for some sheet music and see what I come up with.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Die_G ... 5)_896.jpg
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Re: Nur Ein VIII- Round One

Post by frankie big face »

Yeah.....you may want to look at that more closely. The 6/8 section is an introduction. The waltz section is marked Tempo di Waltz and is in 3/4. Good find though!
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Re: Nur Ein VIII- Round One

Post by Billy's Little Trip »

Generic wrote:she says "I could Viennese Waltz to this."
Jon, maybe you missed her hint. In German, Viennese Waltz is Wiener Walzer. She wanted to dance with your wiener, dude!
....you probably went and played video games and left the poor girl frustrated. :D
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Re: Nur Ein VIII- Round One

Post by RangerDenni »

Does Liszt's first Mephisto waltz ever change from 3/8? I know it goes into very virtuosic passages, but do not know if it ever technically breaks tempo. It's quite brisk. I looked for the music because it's what I first thought of when reading this thread. But it's a bit technical for me. :)
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Re: Nur Ein VIII- Round One

Post by frankie big face »

RangerDenni wrote:Does Liszt's first Mephisto waltz ever change from 3/8? I know it goes into very virtuosic passages, but do not know if it ever technically breaks tempo. It's quite brisk. I looked for the music because it's what I first thought of when reading this thread. But it's a bit technical for me. :)
I just looked at it and it's in 3/8 the entire time. This example is would fall into the same category as 3/4 because it's still one beat to the measure. It's just easier to read (apparently) in 3/8.
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Re: Nur Ein VIII- Round One

Post by RangerDenni »

frankie big face wrote:
RangerDenni wrote:Does Liszt's first Mephisto waltz ever change from 3/8? I know it goes into very virtuosic passages, but do not know if it ever technically breaks tempo. It's quite brisk. I looked for the music because it's what I first thought of when reading this thread. But it's a bit technical for me. :)
I just looked at it and it's in 3/8 the entire time. This example is would fall into the same category as 3/4 because it's still one beat to the measure. It's just easier to read (apparently) in 3/8.
okay. :) what I will say on this is that it would actually be easier to read with simpler subdivisions of the measure (divided by quarters). No one loves 32nd notes (or above!) !!
......until they can play them, at least. :) then no one around us loves them. :)

3/8 and 3/4 feel different to me because of triplets and eighth notes. This is a big discussion so I checked Grove before I wrote mine. I think it's two separate, very lengthy discussions
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Re: Nur Ein VIII- Round One

Post by frankie big face »

@DJ - normally, I would agree but I think the speed of the piece makes it more palatable to read in 3/8 for some reason. I haven't played it so my opinion doesn't carry much weight. Also, even though it has "waltz" in the title, I would argue this piece is not intended for dancing.

Anyway, I think all the songs this week met the challenge just fine. For the record.
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Re: Nur Ein VIII- Round One

Post by RangerDenni »

@FBF
"more palatable" was the perfect way of describing the time signature choice of that devil's dance. :)
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Re: Nur Ein VIII- Round One

Post by Lunkhead »

Nur Ein trivia:

- This is the biggest round of dropouts in Nur Ein history, with 5 participants not entering.
- Nur Ein VIII has now already had more dropouts than Nur Ein V, Nur Ein VI, and Nur Ein VII.
- This will be the first Round One with no eliminations.
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Re: Nur Ein VIII- Round One

Post by Caravan Ray »

Young people today. No commitment.
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Re: Nur Ein VIII- Round One

Post by BoffoYux »

Image

I just took a closer look at the art for Round One. Well Done!

I missed a bunch of the smaller in jokes, including the Running time being 3:4
Tip of the hat there.
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Re: Nur Ein VIII- Round One

Post by Eric Y. »

Thanks, Boffo. I just sort of threw it together -- a little copying and pasting (and some minor tweaking) from an image of the "Brandy" single. But I do have to admit, the "3:4" bit was totally Mr. J$'s idea.
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Re: Nur Ein VIII- Round One

Post by Märk »

Lunkhead wrote:Nur Ein trivia:

- This is the biggest round of dropouts in Nur Ein history, with 5 participants not entering.
- Nur Ein VIII has now already had more dropouts than Nur Ein V, Nur Ein VI, and Nur Ein VII.
- This will be the first Round One with no eliminations.
Well I guess we need better challenges ;)
* this is not a disclaimer
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Re: Nur Ein VIII- Round One

Post by Niveous »

The judging is nearly over. But it's getting late so I may have to put up the scores and announce the immunity in the morning.
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Re: Nur Ein VIII- Round One

Post by frankie big face »

Congrats to WreckdoM!

I think it's time to start eliminating judges. Let's start with Judge 5. :evil:
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Re: Nur Ein VIII- Round One

Post by skypup »

Congratulations WreckdoM! A well deserved winner!

I'm baffled at how high I ranked. Were the judges high when ranking these? I'm not complaining though. Thanks guys.
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Re: Nur Ein VIII- Round One

Post by j$ »

WAIL. IAAC.
Perhaps the challenge was too prescriptive; but for me there were a whole bunch of not terrible, but far-from-stand-out songs this round. 80% of these were pretty much interchangeable in my rankings - could have been third, could have been eighteenth.

BL – a lovely main riff, gentle and sweet but song waaayyyy too long to support the lyrical idea methinks. Possibly twice as long as it needs to be. This is a common complaint of mine though, so don’t take it too personally. I keep wanting it to kick in. (Also just cos Tomski doesn’t do this style anymore doesn’t mean it’s up for grabs for the likes of you :) )

BYD – Comedy country, while the only decent use for country, just ain’t my thing. Well done for what it is. *shrug* I really like the guitar tone on the lead?

CBjr – I really like the music you make – it’s soft and just slightly weird enough to intrigue me. That said there’s something odd (not linguistically) with the expression / phrasing this time out which is distracting but I can’t quite put my finger on what it is. Not sure the chorus is big enough (though the production is) – maybe a different or more striking use of BVs there? Love the trippy fairground last minute or so.

Cavedwellers – What a lovely melody. The bass is perhaps a tad too fiddly. It starts to pall slightly around 3.00 , I think because the lyric doesn’t really do anything for me, but hey, it is a lovely melody, well performed. JUST BE MORE EFFICIENT IN THE FUTURE OR I WILL NOT BE SO KIND.

Chokehold Princess – I want to like this more than I do. The joke is done by about a minute and it doesn’t really seem to go anywhere for the remaining 2 ½ minutes. The uke / mandolin / garrotte wire tone is too harsh to be that high in the mix. Rushed.

Dani House – Pretty. And I like your voice on this very much, compared to last round. When the accordion / drums come in i wonder whether it’s the right choice – a bit too complicated for the mood of the song, perhaps? That said, it all adds to the radiohead vibe ( It’s the voice and glockenspiel I think). Anyway, I liked that. Enough.

DJ Ranger Den – I love the piano with just the right amount of diminished mood to it and your voice sounds great as always. A little long without me concentrating on the lyric, but that seems to be le plat de jour on the round one menu so far, so can’t be too harsh on that. Doesn’t leap out and grab me overall but it’s good. I think that to my dumb ears it all sounds a bit unfocused when most likely it’s incredibly complicated and musically clever. Them’s the breaks, right?

FBF – good stuff. Good to hear you breaking out the David Bowie voice again  Weirdly, the part I like the least is the waltz stuff (though yay for hand claps)! I disliked (didn’t get) the waltz explanation (2,3, you got it, one more time) unless it’s just a “happy now, judges?” moment? Or a fear that judges can’t count “1,2,3”? So much going on under the surface, things evolving and meshing and when the vocals start interweaving over the last chorus i get all gooey. Mix could do with being a little more prominent – nothing really stands out – but what would I know about such things?

GD – well, this is one of the few that for me does something interesting with the challenge (in the arrangement I barely notice it at first) which I like. Very well done, but overall it’s not really catching my ear. In some ways it shares stuff in common with Cavedwellers / Dani House songs this time out (i guess i mean a vague radiohead sheen) Not a bad song by any means.

IV – Not bad at all. But comedy country about being ugly / fat? A pretty average take on both title and challenge. Why does a “disgusted glare” have a sound effect associated with it? I like that heavy guitar that is deep down in the mix (that I only noticed towards the end).

JE – Oh lord. Sensitive singer-songwriter seeks non-clumsy lyric. I don’t mean to laugh at your life but really, this comes so close to self-parody (especially when it comes to discussing the merits of the song in competition) that I find myself cruelly sniggering. Again. Musically it’s not bad, a bit over-familiar in style, and arrangement wise a little thin for the song’s length. Once again the vocal lacks a bit of ... erm .... grind? Still, that’s personal taste, not a critical judgement, it’s not like you’re wildly out of tune or anything. Erm ...I appreciate this may be a massively harsh review for a song that doesn’t deserve any such strong reaction one way or the other; which, I guess, is exactly why it deserves it. Insensitive music critic seeks reason to connect? Or maybe just a soul, mate :)

Ken – I like the verse melody more than the chorus and especially the military mood it hits around 1.45 for a minute or so – i expected more of that style from the challengers, so glad to hear it here, at least. Big rock solo is well prepared for. Calls for my attention more than many others this round although it doesn’t stay with me very long after its end.

Manhattan glutton – That bass (in tone and in arrangement) is at once a rock waltz stereotype and perfect. And yes, there is such a thing as a rock waltz stereotype! “Sounds and looks the same”? You set them up, I’ll knock them down. Actually this is not at all bad, as these things go. Not my kind of thing, but there’s a fair bit here to like. Running the circle round the edge of bland and too long for what is there, but you’re not the only one guilty of those crimes this time out. The title has brought out a lyric that is interesting for the most part.

Merisan – Sounds good. I am not a huge fan of some of the phrasing towards the beginning, dragging out the words into slightly odd shapes. The harmonies are, as always, lovely. Your voices work so well together. A little sluggish, perhaps, and the chorus isn’t big enough. Slides by pleasantly.

Paco Del Stinko – More comedy waltz. The lyric is a little clumsy at times, tripping over itself to get its expression correct. Keeps threatening to kick off into a big punky bridge / second section which never comes. Hmmmm. Should have ended on the ‘dinosaur tooth’ line – at least in terms of my attention span.

Ross Durand – i knew this was you without looking, within 5 seconds. Is that a good thing? I think the keyboard strings / swell section comes about 30 seconds too late and should last 30 seconds longer (to the end of the song preferably). I don’t really have much to say. The lyric is fine. Maybe it’s lost in transatlantic translation but this really doesn’t do much for me, which being objectively “good”.

Sky Pup – interesting tone on the lead, maybe a little dull – needs some more sheen, or some of the low end taking off it? It would really make what is a nice bit of guitar playing stand out. Oh. Wicked witch vocals took me by surprise. Points for taking the high road on the G’n’G route, and bonus points for catching me unawares. I wish this song was exactly like it was, including the vocal performance, only the lyric wasn’t about being the wicked witch. The music is literally mirroring the lyric, or vice versa, and not in a clever ‘looking glass’ way. It makes this a one-listen-only-throwaway thing when it could with a bit more thought have become a superbly mad moment of genius. I like “magically gain 50 lbs” (in this context). Oh and this should have some percussion on it. Even a slow egg shaker would carry it along a bit more easily. Like the “rock-out” at the end is CRYING OUT for a drum machine behind it. Really heavy Big Black style. Anyway the song is almost funny, almost brilliant, and thus the frustrating drop I take from the cliff of excellence down the face of disappointment into the valley of missed opportunity is sheer and speedy as the song comes to a close. I guess what I’m saying is, imagine if you had done round zero’s song in the style of round one's, and vice versa? If that makes no sense to you, I guess we just never going to get along.

Tubba Gutz – I do like this. Never been a production queen, but this so terribly recorded (or maybe just mixed) I am aurally squinting my way through it more than a little bit. I can’t relax enough to really enjoy. I would say, in terms of vocal performance, it might have worked better as a looser, slower poetry-slam type thing, rather than the rap - there is way too much rigidity here - but nonetheless it intrigues me, and I could listen to it again, especially with the piano bass line much louder in the mix. As there are no D/Qs this round, i don’t have to fret over the fact in my rankings you could be top 10 and bottom 2 at the same time.

Tydon Docks – i love the fractured arrangement of the music and it works with the vocal very well. The chorus is a bit usual for the amount of times you fall back on it. The guitar “solo” riff is awesome. BVs are brill – the military drumming also. The intertwining vocals at the end. Musically it all works supah. Lyrically not so much – it’s basically variations on one joke with no real evolution. That said, there are some lines I really liked. Weirdly I find the swearing a bit too much. Who knew that you could take all the pleasure out of cunt by wrapping your tongue round it too often? :o

Wreckdom – Wow that’s pretty straight-laced from you, for me. Also you skim along the title in a few lines then move onto a song called “Waltz of the Dead”, right? Something of the Nick Caves here. Not a bad case, though – you can get tablets that will take care of that. Harmonies are lovely but seem at odds with what I was hoping for. However I should be judging the song not the band. This is good, one of the better ones from the round, only it could be anyone, not just Wreckdom.
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Re: Nur Ein VIII- Round One

Post by frankie big face »

j$ wrote: FBF – good stuff. Good to hear you breaking out the David Bowie voice again  Weirdly, the part I like the least is the waltz stuff (though yay for hand claps)! I disliked (didn’t get) the waltz explanation (2,3, you got it, one more time) unless it’s just a “happy now, judges?” moment? Or a fear that judges can’t count “1,2,3”? So much going on under the surface, things evolving and meshing and when the vocals start interweaving over the last chorus i get all gooey. Mix could do with being a little more prominent – nothing really stands out – but what would I know about such things?
I knew the 2,3 stuff was a risk and I just kind of did it and liked it. It doesn't have anything to do with the judges (nothing I do ever does, frankly). I think it just fits in with the song, which is kind of about finding your footing (the lyric says "brave a dance in different time" and the waltz is clumsy with its meter changes). This may not make you like it any more but it may help you "get it." :)
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Re: Nur Ein VIII- Round One

Post by j$ »

Yeah, I would have had such meta-wank-frippery as beneath you, rightly. i just didn't like it because it 'eh?'ed me and dragged me out of the moment. Didn't affect my ranking at all.
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