Nur Ein VIII Round Six "Weekend in the City"

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Re: Nur Ein VIII- Round Six

Post by Manhattan Glutton »

I mean the vocals are fine if each section were a whole song. It's more the fact that I'm not paying attention to them so they don't paint a coherent story.

But I don't normally pay attention to lyrics anyhow, as my abysmal ones usually show, so don't take that personally.

I'm sad you didn't like my kinky solos.
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Re: Nur Ein VIII- Round Six

Post by glennny »

@Paco- Yes your song is epic to me, but I also think a lot of your songs are epic anyway. Oh man your have so many voices, and they're all good and highly entertaining. An album side song cycle with several of those characters would be sooooo epic!

@ Mike- every section is in s different key. You probably noticed act six is the minor version of act one. Also I did do key change tags at the ends of acts one and two to harmonically pull to the next sections.
It's good to hear you at least liked them as individual sections.
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Re: Nur Ein VIII- Round Six

Post by Manhattan Glutton »

Good game everyone! I'm glad I can enjoy my weekend and not have to record a song in 2 days.
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Re: Nur Ein VIII- Round Six

Post by glennny »

Congrats Paco! Congrats Carlo! This will be an exciting duel!
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Re: Nur Ein VIII- Round Six

Post by Ross »

Written before results were seen.


Writing as I listen for the first time. I like a good epic song story. I have ideas about what that means, let's see what you guys think. Not looking at the lyrics. Have not read any other reviews.

Carlo Bruno Jr. - hmm going for the Epic sound to accompany an epic story...too direct of an exposition for me starting with the killing of the cop. Without lyrics in front of me I am having some trouble making out the lyrics, but not a lot. I appreciate the energy you put into the arrangement, but personally I'd rather have an epic story than an epic song.

Cavedwellers - why do strings = epic. Going for the Cable Beach approach? Multiple mvmts? Hmm, we'll see how this goes. More like several songs strung together than a single epic story song. There's a bit of a Sufjan feel to this second mvmt. Act three reminding me of Kevin Gilbert, that's a good thing. Now starting to sound like a mini Tommy. I still feel like it is many songs rather than one epic one. Waiting for some glue. Appreciate the effort you put into the complexity of all the pieces. The reprise of first song is good. Not enough glue for my overall bias about whether it is one song or not.

Manhattan Glutton - i'm a loser, baby. So why don't you kill me? I am waiting for the story to start. I like how this is put together, the overall aesthetic. So far this is the most like one I would listen to for pleasure. I just don't think it is either a story or epic.... So far. Unfortunately, at this point it is just getting to feeling long(about 5 minute in)

Merisan - Heart? Pat Benatar? Double tracked vocals would have been great on the verses as well as the chorus here. Decent song about addiction. Sorry, not epic.

Paco - ok, let's here it. So far I don't feel I have a single candidate. Ok, list of names (smitty..) gets us right into actual epic story territory right away. Can't wait till this kicks into gear. Nice feel change on "taxis" almost like American in Paris. Lots of glue here.


Ok. If I were a judge, weighing the challenge heavily.

1. Paco
2. Cavedwellers
3. Manhattan glutton
4. Merisan/Carlo Bruno Jr.
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Re: Nur Ein VIII- Round Six

Post by Paco Del Stinko »

Wow. I really didn't think I could make it this far! I have been going to school and it is very time consuming, making my "art" suffer, in my opinion. But I am thrilled! Thanks to the judges, all of the other GREAT contestants and any who listen. I love NUR EIN!, as I've said many times and will again. It provides lots of great music, some drama, and brings people out of their caves to fight. Thanks to all, for all, of it.

My third time in the final. I enjoyed Ray Negro's music years ago, and am now a Bruno Jr. fan as well. This';; be fun. NUR EIN!!!!!!!!
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Re: Nur Ein VIII- Round Six

Post by Lunkhead »

I feel a mixture of disappointment and relief. We have run out of juice. I'm happy we made it to the semifinals though and I think this year we produced our best overall output of any of our Nur Ein attempts. Thanks to the judges for running things very efficiently this year. I appreciated the timely posting of songs, results, challenges, etc. Congrats to Paco and Carlo, and good luck.
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Re: Nur Ein VIII- Round Six

Post by Niveous »

Lunkhead wrote:I feel a mixture of disappointment and relief. We have run out of juice. I'm happy we made it to the semifinals though and I think this year produced out best overall output of any of our Nur Ein attempts. Thanks to the judges for running things very efficiently this year. I appreciated the timely posting of songs, results, challenges, etc. Congrats to Paco and Carlo, and good luck.
Thank you. I think we got some kinks in the system worked out this year.
And I would agree that Merisan had a great output this year and you have earned a new fan in my fiance, who was very sad to hear that you were eliminated.
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Re: Nur Ein VIII- Round Six

Post by roymond »

This was tough. My top two are clear winners. My bottom three are not losers, it's just that there can be only two left standing. These are all epic efforts.

Paco
I love the visuals, characters and scenarios here. You lay it out, there's action, character development and musical growth. Excellent performances. Epic in feel, even in so concise a package. Awesome.

Carlos Bruno Jr
I don't go for the lyrics and while I sense the setup for an epic movie based on this, I hear it more as the first song of its sound track. But I love the vocals, performances and presentation. There's tension and chaos and it's a really fun listen. The mix is sort of screwy as far as the strings/keys go, but the guitar, bass and drums rock throughout, and it's balanced, musically engaging and whacky in that CBj way. I don't get an entire epic story out of this but the setting is grand and the premise is clear...shit's goin' down!

Manhattan glutton
Channeling Alanis Morissette much? I can’t help but hear her in this. There are subtle epic references, as the story moves across time. Musically this has great hooks, but it's too consistent throughout to imply epic. The solos at the end bring the first sense of scale. They could have been used throughout to set off the sections, which needed greater differentiation. I love the bass. It’s a fun listen and really well done.

Merisan
Beautiful performances all around but it doesn’t take me anywhere. Like MG it's just too homogenous for an epic message. It's dynamically flat both lyrically and sonically and I just don't hear an epic story here. Overall it’s not something I’d come back to.

Cavedwellers
I liked Act 5 the most, and wish this was the basis for the overall story. This assortment of disjunct elements simply doesn't carry through well enough to hold my attention in the way I think you intended. It comes off as all epic for the sake of being epic. As a result the whole suffers, and I don't feel accomplishment or arrival at the end. The individual sections don't develop enough on their own, and they don't have enough common threads to hold together as a whole. I'd like more thematic recurrences to bring the cohesiveness that's lacking. I know there are harmonic and other structures at play, but they don't transcend the academic. Beyond that, you’re channeling Rael and Cable Beach in an unavoidably derivative way. It’s a tough listen and repeated listens don’t help. Again, acts 5 and 2 are really cool and could have carried the message, perhaps the girls being the glue that’s missing. Unfortunately the tremendous effort evidenced here doesn’t translate into an enjoyable journey.
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Re: Nur Ein VIII- Round Six

Post by roymond »

Paco Del Stinko wrote:
Glennny wrote:I read it as EPIC STORY SONG
I'd have loved to either do a 2112 thang or fleshed the one I did out more, but time and the idea of someone suffering through my voice for longer than is there already was the capper!
Now that I go back and read the previous comments, I'm thinking "I gotta check out this 2112 thing...wtf is that?"

<googles 2112>
UGH! RUSH! OK, I'll listen walking out to lunch. I've avoided intentionally listening to Rush for 30 years. But I trust you guys too much to let this slide any longer.

** UPDATE **
OK, now I get the references, but I think I used up all my "vocalist forgiving-ness" to deal with Jon Anderson all those years ago. I just can't stand this guy's voice. The guitars are far too dwiddly-dwiddly for my tastes too. And I think they ripped off Cable Beach as well. Ben should sue ;)
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Re: Nur Ein VIII- Round Six

Post by JonPorobil »

Out of all the bands playing this year, Merisan is the one I thought would bury us all. Unfortunately for them, they didn't make it to the top two in this last crucial week. Hate to say it, but I agree with the judges, I'd have passed Paco and Carlo this round as well, with Merisan in a close third. You guys had a great year!

Reviews, done on a first listen:

Carlo - I like the bombastic arrangement. It creates this really "epic" mood of chaos and adventure! Your vocal always sounds just a little strained, but in control. I wish I knew how to balance that; anytime my voice gets stained, the recording just sounds like wet poo. Great job here.

Cavedwellers - Long. You've delivered an embarrassment of riches here, so I hesitate to ask for more, but I wish the transitions were smoother here. That might have ameliorated some of the criticisms you got about this sounding more like six short songs than one long one.

Manhattan - Also long. Does not earn its length as well as Cavedwellers' entry, but I do like your lyrics.

Merisan - Nice song. Can't think of anything mean to say about it. You just got trumped this week.

Paco - Awesome! Great story, tight "band," everything here works, and it doesn't stretch too long just in the name of being "Epic."

Nice round, and may the best fighter win!
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Re: Nur Ein VIII- Round Six

Post by Billy's Little Trip »

roymond wrote:** UPDATE **
OK, now I get the references, but I think I used up all my "vocalist forgiving-ness" to deal with Jon Anderson all those years ago. I just can't stand this guy's voice. The guitars are far too dwiddly-dwiddly for my tastes too. And I think they ripped off Cable Beach as well. Ben should sue ;)
but Peart! :shock:
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Re: Nur Ein VIII- Round Six

Post by j$ »

W.A.I.L. I.A.A.C.

Cavedwellers - Well, if this was a "write a long epic song or die" competition you'd've won, no doubt. Nailed that sucker, for better or worse. But in the process failed spectacularly to have anything akin to a memorable melody, or interesting words (except the clunkers - "quiet like a wax candle"? What are you, Jon Eric?) or anything else that would make the listening to nine minutes of this anything but a chore. I was disappointed and surprised at this. Sorry, fellows, despite my "hilariously" aggressive online character, I really don't mind a bit of length once in a while (tee hee) - hey, I've even recorded a song longer than this. It was about anal sex natch - but, putting aside my personal disdain of song cycles (lazy - join up the dots or are you trying to distract listeners from the fact that you're writing a really long song by putting silences between them), this still feels like you're a writing a long song for the sake of writing a long song. which basically makes you this
PS the challenge wasn't "epic song with story", it was "epic story song". So disappointing.
PPS To write a long song cycle. To pack it full of references that you have to explain elsewhere to a city that is, let' be honest, hardly stuffed with the stuff of legend. And then to go undercharged / laidback in arrangement and approach? I have to admire your suicidal chutzpah.

Manhattan Glutton - nice enough tune, without it staying in the memory long after the (over-distant) finish line. Lyrically, the story's not all that epic is it? Driving quite a long way to hook up with an ex-girlfriend (unless I've missed something)? To this english listener, who a) doesn't drive) and b) could only drive 5 hours or so in any direction at most before falling in the sea, lots of driving doesn't neccessarily equate with epic. It may seem an odd point to get hung up on, but it's not like there's anything else to hang one's pleasure recepticles on during this slight but over-long journey along some route or the other in an aural Hyundai.

Paco - I spent a lot of time trying to decide whether this was awful or brilliant. It was the only song here that after a full listen to all, I wasn't sure where to place it. It has a certain elusive quality, which I decided was a good thing. Despite ticking all the Paco boxes (epic story? yeah? Catchy rhythm guitar driving the song? yeah? Good singing that doesn't wander too far off the mark during the tricky bits? Yeah). I think you should submit this as a precis to the plot of, and the soundtrack to, Hot Tub Time Machine III: The Road to Berlin. Just sayin'.

Merisan - Very pretty but possibly my least favourite of all your Nur Ein songs this time out. I didn't pick up on the lyric being about drugs so I had absolutely no idea how this met an "epic story song" challenge, especially as the music seemed determined to sound like most other Merisan songs. It went past, I blinked, possibly got distracted by a shiny object (it happens), and realised I couldn't remember a single thing about it, other than it wasn't bad. Sorry, I appreciate that's not very helpful.

Carlo Bruno Jr - Best for last. There was some discussion between a few of the judges about whether the "spectacular" lyric you tell is an "epic" story, or not; but I decided that it created a "Mondo Trasho" world of lovers killing coppers and flamethrower-ing the good denizens of Vomitown - and that was pretty epic subject matter in my eyes! Music rocked, well constructed, a hoot from start to finish, and it didn't outstay its welcome (PAY ATTENTION SECRET HIPPIES OF NUR EIN). A clear-cut and well-deserved winner.
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Re: Nur Ein VIII- Round Six

Post by carlo bruno jr »

Generic wrote: Carlo -(...) Your vocal always sounds just a little strained, but in control. I wish I knew how to balance that; anytime my voice gets stained, the recording just sounds like wet poo. Great job here.
!
Do not think I discover anything new for you, but I will explain as I do to manage my goat voice recording. I use a condenser mic, not the one supposed to use for vocals, but one of the pair I use to record the drumkit cymbals environment that works better for me. Then, I work a lot on listening I'll have on headphones, pulling down the level of the music to listen well to make all the nuances, so I control enough volume of the voice that I emit. Also I have a setup of reverb and echo only to hear the voice at that time (not recorded). Finally, in the mixing phase, seek those "liquid poo" and do a sweep with a parametric equalizer to pinpoint the killer frequency (may be more than one) and cut out with the narrower Q it run until the trouble disappears. I hope you understood something and that will be useful. Thank you for your review, Eric.
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Re: Nur Ein VIII- Round Six

Post by roymond »

Billy's Little Trip wrote:
roymond wrote:** UPDATE **
OK, now I get the references, but I think I used up all my "vocalist forgiving-ness" to deal with Jon Anderson all those years ago. I just can't stand this guy's voice. The guitars are far too dwiddly-dwiddly for my tastes too. And I think they ripped off Cable Beach as well. Ben should sue ;)
but Peart! :shock:
Yes, I noted that the drums were indeed quite solid. I like good drummers as much as the next guy who likes good drummers. But the package he supports is a distraction. And now I learn he wrote the lyrics, so that's novel for a drummer. Having played guitar my whole life while defending my distain for "guitar bands" (The Stones, Eric Clapton makes me gag...give me a guitarist who plays like a synth player/keyboard accompanist any day. Hello, Carlos Alomar!) and losing interest in guitarists after they "master" their instrument (Steve Howe, Al Di Meola, Larry Carlton, John McLaughlin, etc.) I find it hard to identify with many common cultural references in popular music. Understatement is rarely rewarded in pop music. Sadly. Do I have a point, you ask...I don't remember anymore.
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Re: Nur Ein VIII- Round Six

Post by Manhattan Glutton »

j$ wrote:Lyrically, the story's not all that epic is it?
I think your assessment is mostly off-base, but that's probably my fault. I was ready to record a song in two days so that I could spend my weekend elsewhere, which is something I did for a couple other rounds this year as well. That's the epic part.
If I had a dollar for every one of my songs j$ has called a 90s pastiche, I'd have $1 for every song I've written.

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Re: Nur Ein VIII- Round Six

Post by Lunkhead »

j$, I agree it's definitely not our best song, and may be our weakest this Nur Ein, but I strongly disagree that it sounds completely indistinguishable from our other songs. I'd be curious if anybody else thinks that about it, though. I could list a bunch of things in the song we hadn't really done yet this Nur Ein but I suppose someone could interpret many of them as superficial.

I feel like it's kind of annoying though how people can get dinged for consistency here. It seems like everybody here has pretty eclectic tastes, but how many of the individual bands that people here like sound wildly different from song to song, like changing genres wildly, etc.? Most popular bands don't really do that, though they may grow or change as they put out new albums. (Please don't point out a handful of exception because I could easily respond with 10x that match what I'm saying.) Erin and I are usually trying to write songs that, to an average listener, would sound like they make sense all coming from the same band, maybe even from the same album. I feel like in the "normal" world that would be a positive thing but here in Song Fight land it seems to be a negative thing. :roll:
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Re: Nur Ein VIII- Round Six

Post by glennny »

J$- Thanks for the review, it's one of my favorites. I think you were the most insightful judge of the competition, you told us what you wanted and your biases. Consequently you were in my head for the last several during the writing process. My hope was the six sections would be enjoyed as 90 second tight pop treats. I thought the riffs and melodies were great, that they didn't grab the judges I think was where we really lost it. It did feel like "write an epic song or die". The challenge "epic story" seems meaningless the way most everyone else took it. Sure they're all "epic", but by the same standards you could call nearly every other entry in previous rounds epic. We're clearly the fools, taking the challenge the way we did. However, I'd much rather really try and fail, than to be called "adult contemporary". Or "they're playing it safe". Like we were accused of in Looking Glass and Hail to the Snake. I really liked the challenges this Nur Ein, what I didn't like was the spirit of rebellion against them from some of the judges and some of the competitors. Anyway, thanks for listening and judging, and reviewing! When will we see J$, Roymond and Niveous, step out of the balcony and jump in the ring?
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Re: Nur Ein VIII- Round Six

Post by roymond »

glennny wrote:When will we see J$, Roymond and Niveous, step out of the balcony and jump in the ring?
Are you nuts? It's hell out there! Only a crazy man would want to subject themselves to Nur Ein.

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Re: Nur Ein VIII- Round Six

Post by iVeg »

J$ did a version of "Come Out" - [Jay String and DJ Whyz] - I think I was expecting deep raspy baritone country music, done with a British accent. This wasn't anything like that. :D
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Re: Nur Ein VIII- Round Six

Post by j$ »

Lunkhead wrote:j$, I agree it's definitely not our best song, and may be our weakest this Nur Ein, but I strongly disagree that it sounds completely indistinguishable from our other songs. I'd be curious if anybody else thinks that about it, though. I could list a bunch of things in the song we hadn't really done yet this Nur Ein but I suppose someone could interpret many of them as superficial.

I feel like it's kind of annoying though how people can get dinged for consistency here. It seems like everybody here has pretty eclectic tastes, but how many of the individual bands that people here like sound wildly different from song to song, like changing genres wildly, etc.? Most popular bands don't really do that, though they may grow or change as they put out new albums. (Please don't point out a handful of exception because I could easily respond with 10x that match what I'm saying.) Erin and I are usually trying to write songs that, to an average listener, would sound like they make sense all coming from the same band, maybe even from the same album. I feel like in the "normal" world that would be a positive thing but here in Song Fight land it seems to be a negative thing. :roll:
Maybe "indistinguishable" is the wrong word, I mean clearly this and your "all hail the snake" do not sound the same. There is a "good, not great" bar that Merisan set - in my head only, obviously! - which I could almost use as my benchmark for ordering other competitors in each round. i get frustrated because I believe that there is a truly great album from the two of you, well within your current capacities, that is just waiting to be unleashed, if you could get if not off the rails, a little away from them, a bit. So much talent, so much energy, so much rightness, that you couldn't make a bad song; but of the few Merisan songs I have heard, you've yet to make a great one. I believe you will and I get frustrated that you haven't. Man.

I can certainly listen to a Ramones best-of album, say, and never question where between constistency and complacency they lie. But they had a stick, a reason,a specific mission statement. The bands I truly love evolve and change, not wildly, or quickly, but they change. While still retaining their USP / identity. Compare the first five Clash albums and tell me any one sounds like another. Yet tell me you don't know it's the Clash as soon as you hear it.t

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Submitting as: Johnny Cashpoint
Location: London, Engerllaaannnddd
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Re: Nur Ein VIII- Round Six

Post by j$ »

iVeg wrote:J$ did a version of "Come Out" - [Jay String and DJ Whyz] - I think I was expecting deep raspy baritone country music, done with a British accent. This wasn't anything like that. :D
Aye. I am also finishing up two new albums, and about to record my favourite lyrics as a (possibly live) spoken word album. And I finished work on the first TFC track for about 6,7 years, old SF history fans.

If I can be arsed to finish stuff (clue: I never can) this will all be released in the build up to November, which will be the tenth anniversary of me dumping musically on the internet. Christ, I am so oooollllldddddd :)
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