The Song Fight Bulletin Board

Fast Lane Junkies
Must include a section with both vocals & music in double time

Clarification time!
1. Must all of the music be double-time during that section?
2. Does the double-time vocal section have to happen at the same time as the double-time music section, or may they be separate sections?
3. What if there are no vocals, or no music? (In other words, is the challenge that double-time exists, or that there are specific elements in double-time?)

Wow... and I thought this round didn't leave much room for speculation...

I considered the challenge to mean that there's one section in the song (like the chorus or something) where all of the music, that is, every instrument including the vocals, is in double time.
But, let's wait for the judges to clarify.

BTW, do you guys agree that the title and the challenge fit together exceptionally well this time?
Kind of makes it harder to do something original, though.

Manhattan Glutton wrote:

Fast Lane Junkies
Must include a section with both vocals & music in double time

Clarification time!
1. Must all of the music be double-time during that section?
2. Does the double-time vocal section have to happen at the same time as the double-time music section, or may they be separate sections?
3. What if there are no vocals, or no music? (In other words, is the challenge that double-time exists, or that there are specific elements in double-time?)

1.) I'm not sure what the other judges had in mind, but I'm thinking at least the percussion.
2.) Yes, it is mandatory that they both happen at the same time.
3.) Instrumentals and unaccompanied solo voice pieces have tended to fare poorly in Nur Ein. I believe the challenge is worded in such a way as to make both lyrics and instrumental backing mandatory.

By way of elucidation... This was initially just "must shift into double-time," but then we decided that that was letting you guys off easy, so the additional clause was added in there.

I can think of a ton of songs that do either half of the challenge, but I can't think of any off the top of my head that do both. So... have fun with that.

Lotsa words:




Double time:

Whew, it's a good thing I didn't start recording my jazz song yet.

Are these good examples for songs that do both?

My turn, my turn! Ooh! Literally double time, like: 120 bpm begets 240 bpm?

Rabid Garfunkel wrote:My turn, my turn! Ooh! Literally double time, like 120 bpm begets 240 bpm?

Yes, we won't be measuring with a metronome to make sure you got it right to the exact BPM, but a shift into double-time has a distinctly different "feel" from other tempo increases.

What if we play most of the song in halftime but shift to normal time for some sections? Or did you just mean, have a section with music and vocals that are twice the tempo of the rest of the song?

"Revelations" by Iron Maiden.

Lunkhead wrote:What if we play most of the song in halftime but shift to normal time for some sections?

I highly doubt that I'd ever know the difference. That's probably true for the other four as well.

Generic wrote:3.) Instrumentals and unaccompanied solo voice pieces have tended to fare poorly in Nur Ein.

I've been thinking pretty much all throughout this Ein that it was about time there was an instrumental challenge. Especially considering we've now had 2 (sort of) vocals only/no instrument-type challenges (Kids from NE6 and The New Ugly).

Thats another game. It has cumulative points, no one is eliminated. rounds are : Instrumental, Rap, New Wave, Metal, Ballad, Country, Rock, B Game, A Game.

The judges are : Lyric Judge, Melody Judge, Judge Flow, Arrangement Judge, production Judge.

its called Nur Ein Nicht

furrypedro wrote:I've been thinking pretty much all throughout this Ein that it was about time there was an instrumental challenge.

You know what, I think that's a great idea. Not for Nur Ein though, but it would be cool as a separate sidefight. Like, you get a title and you have to write an instrumental with that title. The judges then rank the songs according to how much they think each entry fits the title. There could be some additional kind of challenge, too.
I would love to do that, but that's just me. Others might not like the idea of compulsory lyriclessness. (Yeah, I just made up a word )

noma wrote:Are these good examples for songs that do both?

I think the TMBG song would pass this challenge, but not the Nirvana song. Two things strike me about the Nirvana piece: First, I don't think that the tempo doubles. It goes up in degrees, but to my ears (on a first listen), it doesn't sound like a doubling. Secondly, when the tempo increases, I don't think the verse melody changes.

Here's another classic example of the double-time shift:



Note how Petty's vocals are the same tempo in the coda even though the drums and guitars are playing literally twice as fast as they do in the rest of the song. That would make it a poor fit for this particular challenge, even though it's a stunning example of a double-time shift on its own.

Here's another:



John Hiatt's vocals actually go slower when his music cuts into double-time at the end - he holds those soulful chorus notes even longer to match the rising passion of the song.

Now, here's an example of a song where the vocals/lyrics shift into overdrive while the music doesn't:



The verses are already pretty manic (this is Weird Al we're talking about, after all), but he goes all out for the bridge, stuffing in so many words that I literally don't know how he managed to control his breath for this. But since the music vamps pretty much the same over that bridge, it wouldn't count for this particular challenge.

glennny wrote:Thats another game. It has cumulative points, no one is eliminated. rounds are : Instrumental, Rap, New Wave, Metal, Ballad, Country, Rock, B Game, A Game.

The judges are : Lyric Judge, Melody Judge, Judge Flow, Arrangement Judge, production Judge.

its called Nur Ein Nicht

I would be up for this (minus the "B game" crap - if you're gonna be in it, be in it to win it).

yeah, that was mostly a joke, but to write a crappy song would be funny, and it'd be nice to have some category Merisan wouldn't dominate.

Actually, I kind of like the idea. Perhaps instead of crappy song it was joke or novelty. Hmm?

Generic wrote:Here's another classic example of the double-time shift:



Note how Petty's vocals are the same tempo in the coda even though the drums and guitars are playing literally twice as fast as they do in the rest of the song. That would make it a poor fit for this particular challenge, even though it's a stunning example of a double-time shift on its own.

Ah man, I love that song, but that video is dodgy as hell! Never seen it before

Can the song have the following?

Verse vocals & music: speed 2x

Chorus alternates between:
Music 4x and vocals 1x
Music 1x and vocals 4x

In other words, blatant doubling and quadrupling but implemented at blatantly opposite times for contrast?

Generic wrote:

Rabid Garfunkel wrote:My turn, my turn! Ooh! Literally double time, like 120 bpm begets 240 bpm?

Yes, we won't be measuring with a metronome to make sure you got it right to the exact BPM, but a shift into double-time has a distinctly different "feel" from other tempo increases.

I was wondering about that (but didn't really want to play my "musically illiterate" card again by mentioning it). That is of course, exactly what I plan on doing (a bit tricky in Garageband - because you can't alter timing in a song - but I can bounce in a beat from a new project at double bpm). I assume that using the same beat - but twice as fast (and a corresponding speed up of guitar vocals etc) will fit the bill. But I suspect that "double time" doesn't really mean exactly twice as fast - but has something to do with beats per bar or something - which is the point where my eyes start to glaze over.

glennny wrote:Thats another game. It has cumulative points, no one is eliminated. rounds are : Instrumental, Rap, New Wave, Metal, Ballad, Country, Rock, B Game, A Game.

The judges are : Lyric Judge, Melody Judge, Judge Flow, Arrangement Judge, production Judge.

its called Nur Ein Nicht

I remember suggesting something like that years ago - sort of as a musical equivalent of the Olympic Decathlon.