Can we talk about these songs?(A Conversation reviews)

[Caravan Ray]

Caravan Ray -- If you start out with this much silence, at least eliminate the clicks in it. Nice drum intro. Lead vocals are slightly buried. Something about the mix bug me, but I'm having a hard time figuring out what exactly. Everything bleeds together in a weird way... except the background vocals in the right half. The whole thing is strongly biased towards the left, in fact. Very weird. Intriguing composition. I'd have enjoyed a bit more variation in the arrangement, perhaps bringing in some actual chords somewhere. Synth trumpets are a bit overused. Fun lyrics. Pitch in the final part is a bit shaky. If you reworked the arrangement and the mix, this would be completely awesome.
C:2 L:3 F:2 P:3 M:1 -- Total: 11/15 -- Relisten factor: 26%

Thanks - these comments will help. I knew the mix was a bit of a car crash. Too many sounds going on. I even had lead guitar in this too. But cut it at the last minute. And a case of way too many listens in a short space of time meant I lost track of what was going on. Didn't notice the clicks at the beginning (or that I had a lot of silence). Didn't notice the left bias - I will go back and re-listen. I did know the vox at the start are pretty dodgy, that is why I didn't bother trying to fix the "buried in the mix" thing too much - no time to re-record them, so I let them stay buried. Bringing in chords sounds like a good idea. I must remember to look that up and find out what they are.

[Spud]

Yes, I posted it on my SoundCloud account as well (without the intro), but for SF I wanted to make sure people got that it WAS related to the title, and that the blog post was part of the whole thing.

Jim, sorry if I'm being thick here, but what do you want us to do with it after you send it? Can you just post it here in the thread using this?
http://songfight.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=8344

[jast]

Bringing in chords sounds like a good idea. I must remember to look that up and find out what they are.

Don't bother. It'll just go way over your head.

[Jim of Seattle]

Yes, I posted it on my SoundCloud account as well (without the intro), but for SF I wanted to make sure people got that it WAS related to the title, and that the blog post was part of the whole thing.

Jim, sorry if I'm being thick here, but what do you want us to do with it after you send it? Can you just post it here in the thread using this?
http://songfight.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=8344

Oh, ok. I was just wondering if I sent the mp3 without the intro if it could replce the one that's already there on the official fight page. I can just assume anyone who cries foul for it being unrelated will come to the boards and find the link to the blog. Yeah?

[Jim of Seattle]

It's the exact same thing, just without the intro. For some reason I wasn't getting all the buttons above my entry window in the other forum.

The blog post can be found at http://patricemj.wordpress.com/2012/01/ ... versation/

The ID3 comments truncates, not enough room for the link. Anyway, I'm rat holing this thread now. Back to actual reviews and stuff.

[codywalkerjr]

Andy sucks vs Darrel-Funny but i definately am judging on musicianship and performance so i cant vote for this one.

Berkely Social Scene- I really loved this song until around 2:00 I felt like it took a weird turn and lost the energy it had, Every think before that and after that part i really enjoyed. i especially liked where you panned the (UKE?) and guitar. Great job, Interesting use of chords.. I liked that you brought the hook back toward the end. Super Super Catchy . One of my favorites this week...Vote!

Billy & the Psycotics- I'm pretty new here but this is the best production that I've heard from you guys so far. Really great song structure! Great Production! Your voice sounds great! Lots of attitude, the drummers is super tight and locked right in with the bass. guitar is interesting and well placed too! Cool Breakdown around 1:40..Vote!

Blue Movies- My first impression is that it sounds pretty lo-fi and garagey. I like the distorted voice. the guitars sounds pretty muddy. Vocal in my opinion is the best part of this tune. didnt really grab me though

Caravan Ray- I'm a drummer , I really dug the strong drum intro. Cool groove. The trumpety hornline sounds a little cheesy usually but totally works for this song! Backround vocals are great. At 1:20 I like how it sounds like you get on the loundspeaker then goes to the drums and vocals. great Dynamics, Great song overall!! Vote!

Dwald-Sounds like an overdriven electronic drumset. Kinda Creepy, Yet creative. Very Short..

Elephant Choir- Nice progression. I'm no bible thumper but I think you have to have a very good reason to use Fuck in a song but thats just me. It makes it gritty though. The girl has an innocent voice but she said "Fuckin"! LOL Still deciding on a vote. the 'Fuckin" was kind of unnessecary. Almost like it could be so much more meaningful without it. Sorry- i think I'll may vote though

Faux-Cool use of the synth it sounds big! Not too crazy about the vocal, sounds a little dry and nasally. Seems like a drum machine? But well planned, the fills/cymbals go with the music. As far as the song goes, its a good story, great job of setting the scene and really great structure. still deciding on vote

Hill Bill- I like your voice man! Sounds rough and beleivable. Can picture me sitting in a smoky bar at open mic night and listening to a guy playing this. The chord progression works good. Simple yet effective. The vocals seem to come up close then go far away..Not crazy about the lead guitar. the Story is funny! She stole my wallet but its alright!--


Infinity Point Buck- Nice man! Much better vocals that last week! I can hear them . Cool beat. and that 'shimmery thing " in there. something about the vocal sounds thin to me...

Jan kreuger- Its well done and well written, Great harmonies but not song not super exciting to me until around :49 (when the harmonies really seem to stick out to me).... Kind of reminds me of 'I'm a believer" .Just cause of the great harmonies I will Vote!

Jim of Seattle- Wow! Intro gets your attention. Kind of freaking epic! I guess this is a play on the title? Sounds like something I'd hear on NPR.. Cant vote because of the lack of lyrics

Jon Eric- Good Musicianship here. Vocals arent 'Jumping out at me" but still well done. Short and sweet. the drums seem cheezzy

Longfellow Street- Wow! I've been playing music with these guys for 4 or 5 years and never heards anything like this come out of Trey/Mal. Trey great job man! I love it! I like that you made the drum machine interesting!@Almost doesnt sound like one to me.. Great job on youre vocals man! I love this one all around, High Energy! Backup Vocals have lots of 'Attitude!! Vote


Paco Del Stinko- Returning champion- Well done, nice vocal performance. Not like a song i would want to hear everyday, kind of on the weird side but still well done. Sounds like the little preset songs on an old keyboard

Ross Durand- Guitar immediately reminded me of Neil Young, Vocals come in, sounds genuine. Really interesting chord choices. They all flow well. I like the song, Vote

Scott Gesser- The acoustic guitar sounds kind of crappy, Like it has no back on it or something..But you made it work . 1:30 part is the highlight of the song IMO. You got good sounds out of all of the other stuff except that main Rhythm Guitar. Catchy Tune overall though

Seismic Toss-For the electronic/hip hop songs this week this is my favorite. The groove is groovin', the vocals are bouncing nicely and are nice and clear. I'm not much of a hiphop specialist so i cant really comment too much. Good Job -Vote

Smashy Claw-Is cool, the vocal moving in stereo is cool, (Careful about that! that screwed up our song last week LOL)When the rest of the instruments come in it is pretty Damn Epic! Great Harmonies, Great Production, Tight Drums/Bas,s Nice Melody, Probably one of my favorites this week! Great Job -Vote

Steve Durand-The horns are a really nice touch. Seems like it was really well thought out and well performed! The vocal melody goes perfect with the song.. Vote

SuckWeasel- i didnt really like it at first but it stuck on me. Great Rock N Roll guitar riff. Vocals sound lo-fi but cool could maybe use a little more attitude? i like the 'Allright" into the guitar solo. Guitar solo is simple and effective.

Tuners Union- Love this one, From the first 5 seconds it grabs you and makes you want to hear the rest of the song. The drums seem to flub in the very beginning but not a big deal. I was kinda waiting for a climax though..could you have made the drums bigger?? more low end maybe. the vocals seem to be overpowered a bit toward the middle. Still overall great song! Nice placement of the Tambo-Vote

[Jim of Seattle]

Jim of Seattle- Wow! Intro gets your attention. Kind of freaking epic! I guess this is a play on the title? Sounds like something I'd hear on NPR.. Cant vote because of the lack of lyrics

I don't get that.

[irwin]

Jim of Seattle- Wow! Intro gets your attention. Kind of freaking epic! I guess this is a play on the title? Sounds like something I'd hear on NPR.. Cant vote because of the lack of lyrics

I don't get that.

On the contrary, it seems like you do get that. A lot.

[codywalkerjr]

the song title is 'a conversation' but there are no words...

[Jim of Seattle]

the song title is 'a conversation' but there are no words...

I guess this really isn't working then. Did you not hear the intro to the piece? http://patricemj.wordpress.com/2012/01/ ... versation/ is a blog my wife wrote based on the title, which I wrote a soundtrack for.

[codywalkerjr]

jim I'm sorry didnt really put it all together. Could you have had her read it over the music for us dumb people? the music worked well with the blog

[hillbilly]

Cody---- thanks for the review. this was a weak one from me but enjoyed the story. playing with new equipment, cant seem to get the sounds or the right attitude here lately. Jast ---thank you all so, you know what was going on,i was soo drunk , counldnt sing

[The Elephant Choir]

Dudes, seriously. I have no connection to Jim of Seattle, but you just read the blog while you listen to the piece. It's really not that complicated. The intro took a few seconds to explain the concept. Why not just give it a go?

[jb]

Andy Sucks vs Darrell and Company
Douchebaggery.

Berkeley Social Scene
I'm going to chalk this up to an experimental period in the history of BSS that will eventually be appreciated only by superfans.

Billy & The Psychotics
Oooh a bass. And once again, nice song nice performance. I like the chorus a lot. By all meeeaans, let's take the time to haaaave a conversaaaatiooon. You guys need to keep doing this together, you're good at it. You've found something, seriously. And hey! A real bridge! Nice! Dunno about the extra ladies at 2:00, but it's brief so no matter. Vote!

Blue Movies
Half an ounce more production and this would be classic. I like it a lot, but it's just that haaaair underproduced that will keep people from seeing past the muffle to a good song. Really nice vocal performance. The rest of the band is too sloppy, and they're not good enough players to make up for the slop. I'll vote for this though.

Caravan Ray
Synth is too cheesy. I like the harmonies and the "choral" part, and I like the groove, but man I wish that groove was done with a distorted guitar and a bass rather than the synth. Good fake sax. I guess overall I feel like this could really be a lot harder hitting as a production. But as a song, it's at least interesting. I like the discordant part around 2:45. It's too long for my taste. Eventually the instrumental part seems too long, and the length detracts from the impact. You're saying some ballsy stuff, and going on and on is too prog-rock and not enough punk rock.

Dwald
If you're going to be so "experimental", you really need to have more interesting lyrics. Like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rvjw5xJF8WQ

The Elephant Choir
Bring the vocals closer front please, the guitar is burying them. Why doesn't the girl sing with you on the chorus? She sings nicely and I missed her. A little too monotonous in the guitar part. Man that chorus hurts. Shame.

FauX
I want to pronounce your band name like a casual "folks" like "hey folks, what's up?" I was encouraged by the music, and then you started singing, and I knew there was no hope for the song. It's like Jon Eric with a bit catchier music but lots crappier singing. Lyrics are ok, though they make me feel old.

hillbilly
I think this is what one of those old drunk country singers would sound like if they had no knack for lyrics.

Infinity Point Buck
The Euler infinity point is the intersection of the Euler line and line at infinity. Since it lies on the line at infinity, it is a point at infinity. It has triangle center function alpha_(30)=cosA-2cosBcosC, which is Kimberling center X_(30). The Euler infinity point is the pivot point for the Neuberg cubic. Your rap song does not merit such an intellectual reference. Get better.

Jan Krueger
Drums are pretty far back, seems odd but when you start singing it sounds more appropriate. Stuff needs more hooks. Backing stuff at 1:12 and 1:22 sound interesting, but they're not enough to make up for the humdrum nature of the rest of it. Just having one interesting bit, and a little harmony isn't enough. It ALL has to be inspired.

Jim of Seattle
I think this is brilliant, and I think in the comments for this fight you are actually EXPERIENCING the heartbreak of invention. Fuck those other guys, they're dicks, this is great. I'm envious of your orchestral patches, though violas always sound fake. It's very pretty and I like the blog post and I'm going to give this a vote.

Jon Eric
Jon, how long are you going to do this before you get a god damn decent fucking microphone? Jesus. I like your piano playing, though it does sometimes come across as a mix of Billy Joel and Amy Grant. I like that you kept it so short, it's refreshing.

Longfellow Street
Wow, a throwback. Oi. I like your discipline in the vocal parts! Another one that's half an ounce away from kickass production. It's like Pavement or something, but not.... quite.... there. I like this. Reminds me of Blue Movies, but not quite as good indie songwriting (more standard punk), but with much better playing.

Paco del Stinko
Can Paco twopeat? I was doubtful when the song started but when the vocals kicked in the organ like started to feel a lot more groovy. The backing vox are not good man. I like the gravelly lead vocal, but I wish the lyrics were more fluid, more adult, with better prosody. I like the bass solo. Could use another section to the song, break it up a little.

Ross Durand
Only 3:17 but it seems longer. Wish it had some nice beautiful chorus, unfortunately although I recognize the chorus when it happens it doesn't stick with me. I acknowledge the message of your song, but for some reason can't shake the feeling that it should be hitting me harder.

Scott Gesser
Ok, good start with that thwacky guitar. "I've blown up southern hostiles with a flicker of my tongue. If I had the chance I'd blow them up again." Dude, these lyrics are great! Not much going on musically and yet I'm compelled to listen, based on the confident presentation of your lyrics in your lead vocal performance. Fuck yeah. Ha, some na-nay-na action to boot. GOOD! And you throw in an electric guitar lick! Catchy! This is the one I'm playing over and over. My favorite by far!

Seismic Toss
Uh oh, samples. Ok, not too bad on the rhymes. Maybe too clever, maybe not facile enough with the enunciation, but I gotta give it to you for this one. It's a good attempt. I think you can think about some words that are easier to pronounce when in close together, might make a few of the lines flow better. Ha, the suki suki line made me laugh. I like the chorus. Wish some other sample would come in, or somehow that musically some other line or texture would come in somewhere in the middle.

Smashy Claw
Why oh why did you let the intro go on for almost a minute before the rest of the music kicks in? I kept waiting for it to, and was about to give up hope. Then it comes in and it's a relief. Wish the lead vocals were more in tune-- with harmonies they kind of drive me nuts. The lyrics are a little too much with the "interesting" words-- they don't seem to be put together with any meaningful message, but that may be because I don't feel compelled to listen again to really identify what you're trying to say. A hazard when someone doesn't really like your song.

Steve Durand
Oh, I do always appreciate your musicianship Steve. I find myself wishing you'd let Ross sing on this-- I think his gravelly thing on this music and words would be fucking great. That said, I really like the old-timey feel and sound, though it makes me picture you with one of those barbershop hats on, performing this in a gazebo on a summer day with families and old people gathered around. You bow, they applaud. We have some Italian ice.

Suckweasel
I'm picturing this played in the back room of a bar near my house. I walk in, hear a few bars, then realize it's only 7:30 and go back to the other room to wait for the headliner who's due up a few bands from now.

Tuners Union
I like this a lot. Nicely composed and played. Wish the vox were louder, 'cause it's hard to really understand them. The percussive guitar part especially overpowers the vocal. Lots of nice little hooks in here for me to listen to. My second favorite! This reminds me of Ranch on Suede just slightly, but with a much higher Bon Iver quotient. Oh yeah, shame about the vocal mix man, this reallly should be epic. SOMEBODY REMIX THIS FOR HIM PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF MIKE! I'd love to hear this if Ken or Lunkhead got ahold of it. Please do that. For my sake.

[Ross]

But... 22 entries?!?!? Geez Louise!

Hey! How about if there were multiple titles! That could work!!! Let's discuss!

hmm...not sure what's wrong with me, I can't find the "like" button.

[Billy's Little Trip]

I can't find the "like" button.

*pulls down my zipper* Here it is.

[longfellowstreet]

Hey! How about if there were multiple titles! That could work!!! Let's discuss!

It's been done before...

[j$]

Them's the jokes ...

[JonPorobil]

Jon Eric
Jon, how long are you going to do this before you get a god damn decent fucking microphone? Jesus. I like your piano playing, though it does sometimes come across as a mix of Billy Joel and Amy Grant. I like that you kept it so short, it's refreshing.

Let's see. Back in 2003 when I started this thing, I was using a generic stick microphone that came with my computer. I think it was Dell-branded, but who knows who actually made it? Not too much later, I got what I thought was a good microphone, one of those $30 unidirectional Radioshack numbers. It was an improvement on the stick mic, but I still didn't know what I was missing. I was just 17 back then, so if I wanted to buy any expensive equipment, it had to wait for special occasions. On a birthday (at the urging of my fellow Songfighters), I got a condenser microphone. I don't remember the model, but it was MXL, and it cost about $100. Reviews of my vocal recordings improved considerably. Unfortunately, while I was in college, that microphone got stolen. I had to revert back to the Radioshack microphone, but it didn't matter a whole lot because I only recorded about five songs the whole time I was in college.

After I graduated and moved out on my own, I started getting serious about recording again. I bought a Shure SM57 and recorded a few songs with that, but someone gave me a speech not too dissimilar from the one you're giving me now, JB, and I read up on the differences between dynamic mics and condensers. I buckled and bought another condenser. As an adult with a full-time job, I didn't have to wait for a special occasion, but I still couldn't afford to splurge that much, so again I stuck within the $100 range and got an MXL 9090. The first song I recorded with the 9090 was "Sold Out," in April 2009. You're the first person who's complained about mic quality since then.

I don't think it's a coincidence that this is also the first song I've recorded since moving to a new house back in November. I wonder if you're reacting more to the room sound than to the microphone? Some other songs which were well-received, but recorded on this exact same microphone in a different room include "Hardly a Moment" and "When Did You Know," which came in first place and tied for third place in their respective fights.

Your recordings still sound shloads better than mine do, so I'm willing to defer to your expertise on the matter, so if you're confident that it's a problem inherent to the microphone and not my recording space, then I'll move "new microphone" higher up on my wish list and probably buy one next time I get a case of GAS. But is it possible to step up my quality without breaking the bank? I know there's a bunch of "inexpensive microphone recommendations" in the Help & How To thread, but they all get reviews on-par with what my MXL gets - "A pretty good condenser mic, especially for the price." From all available indicators, I don't think it's possible for me to attain a noticeably better sound without upping the price bracket, which I'm not prepared to do in 2012.

What do you think? Would it be more profitable for me to invest in getting my room treated than a new microphone? If not, what kind of microphone should I be looking into, bearing in mind that I'm not willing go to above, say, $200? At least not for a while. Are there particular specifications I should be looking for, since customer reviews for usable mics in the $100-$200 range are all kind of samey?

[kaz]

Appreciate the reviews, jast, faux, cody, jb. The good and the bad are all taken to heart.

The rumors are true: I can't mix for squat. It's one of those things that my brain doesn't want to wrap itself around yet.

My intent is to submit more fights in the coming months, so I'm hoping I improve in this respect naturally. But I ask: does anyone out there have specific recommendations on resources for mixing? Websites? Books? Anything?

[ken]

Berkeley Social Scene
I'm going to chalk this up to an experimental period in the history of BSS that will eventually be appreciated only by superfans.

I think pretty much every BSS song is an experiment in some way. We aren't trying to define our sound in any particular direction so we inevitably wander. My thought on this song is that somewhere along the line, someone will make a cover version that realizes the potential of this song.

Tuners Union
I like this a lot. Nicely composed and played. Wish the vox were louder, 'cause it's hard to really understand them. The percussive guitar part especially overpowers the vocal. Lots of nice little hooks in here for me to listen to. My second favorite! This reminds me of Ranch on Suede just slightly, but with a much higher Bon Iver quotient. Oh yeah, shame about the vocal mix man, this reallly should be epic. SOMEBODY REMIX THIS FOR HIM PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF MIKE! I'd love to hear this if Ken or Lunkhead got ahold of it. Please do that. For my sake.

Tuners feel free to PM me to coordinate this. I'm happy to give your song a new mix.

Ken

[jb]

I don't think it's a coincidence that this is also the first song I've recorded since moving to a new house back in November. I wonder if you're reacting more to the room sound than to the microphone? Some other songs which were well-received, but recorded on this exact same microphone in a different room include "Hardly a Moment" and "When Did You Know," which came in first place and tied for third place in their respective fights.

Hardly a Moment isn't awful, but mixed poorly. When Did You Know does not sound good. I dunno what the solution is, Jon, it may not be that you need a new mic. Maybe you need to just be closer to the mic, play with the gain, get a compressor in front of your audio interface so you can sing as loud/soft as you want without clipping. Not sure-- it seems like you want to sing pretty loudly, and you might be swaying back and forth in front of the mic. Could be you need to practice mic technique so you can have all the emotion you want in your voice while maintaining a consistent volume into the microphone. I say this realizing that your response may be "I know mic technique, I've been using mics forever, don't preach to me about mic technique asshole!" Just speculating on what the cause may be for what I'm hearing. Too far away, too muffled. So that makes me think "needs mic technique, needs compression, and needs EQ" but that is assuming you have good signal going to your computer-- garbage in, garbage out-- hence maybe a better microphone.

All I know is that it should be better, and given your talent and your dedication to making music, I choose to expect better from you. You put a lot of effort into coming up with the music, you should put as much into making it sound good when people listen to it here. If you pull it off your street cred as a musician/songwriter will hockey stick. You're not alone in this boat.

All my opinion of course, I am not trying to dictate or create gospel here, but hopefully it's some insight into how I approach your music.

JB