Dredging Up Some (From The Depths Reviews)

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Dredging Up Some (From The Depths Reviews)

Postby Pigfarmer Jr » Sat Jul 29, 2017 4:46 am

Tell us how you really feel.
Ad astra per alia porci - Steinbeck
(To the stars on the wings of a pig.)
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Re: Dredging Up Some (From The Depths Reviews)

Postby Lunkhead » Sat Jul 29, 2017 9:14 pm

Songs posted.
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Re: Dredging Up Some (From The Depths Reviews)

Postby The Overambitious » Sun Jul 30, 2017 8:53 pm

Deadnettlez - Once again. Props for the “only using oral noises” (could I have phrased that anymore uncomfortably?). But, I’m not a huge fan of this one. The burping sound gave me just a disgust feel. I get what you were trying to do with the from the depths thing, but it just made me uncomfortable. Doesn’t mean it wasn’t creative, just not my cup of burping tea.

Berkeley Social Scene - Love the chord progression. Gave me like a rock-beach vibe, which is cool. Vocals could be a bit brighter in my opinion. I didn’t really get bored while listening, which is always good. Great Job!

Phunt Yer Friends - The. Pure. Sine. Wave. Oh my lord lol. This might be a personal thing spawned from working with Test Oscillators in Logic, but it puts me on edge haha. Overall unique, interesting, slightly confusing. I’ll give you props for trying to do something original.

Step Aside - I like the simplicity a lot. Very relaxed and carefree feeling. Vocals fit nicely and sound great, though a little hidden. Really good job here. Loved the choir at the end

The Overambitious - That’s me. A bit of explaining: So this obviously took a darker turn during the bridge, I recognize it is a touchy subject, but I felt the need to ask the question: “If truth is irrelevant, what stops a human being from committing atrocities (Like the shooting of Virginia Tech)?” It’s a commonly held belief that truth is unfixed, and moveable depending on the person. What’s true for you is not true for me. While I believe this is true to some extent (Vanilla is my favorite ice cream, but chocolate may be yours. Both are true to each person, but this is a preference, or an opinion, not a scientific or moral/natural law), there is a line somewhere. Subconsciously we all agree that murder is wrong, and so is theft, so if this something held across all rational beings, why then would it not be apparent that it is fixated? No one can argue that “gravity is just not true to me.” Well, that's great, but your still gonna fall off that building if you try and fly. Truth can only be “irrelevant” to rational and psychologically sound humans, who have grown up under the natural law (things that appear to be right or wrong in nature. i.e. Murder is obviously wrong). Unfortunately for mankind, not all people are born or remain psychologically sound their entire life. So what happens when you go spouting off the idea that there is no truth to someone who is afflicted with a mental illness that could have a side effect of impulsive anger? You get awful situations such as Columbine, which encourages events such as Virginia Tech. Our society has created a pattern that will inevitably destroy itself; a generation that knows no bounds, and where anything, and everything, is permissible. Under this assumption, atrocities such as the Holocaust, Slavery, School Shootings, Mass Murder, etc. are all ok. An extreme example, I know, but a reality we enter.
Obviously, this is my opinion. If you disagree, that's fine! This is just something I’m passionate about. As C.S. Lewis once said: “If you look for truth, you may find comfort in the end; if you look for comfort you will not get either comfort or truth only soft soap and wishful thinking to begin, and in the end, despair.”

dark side of the son - I love the concept. I like the creepy bell sound in the beginning. It just sounds really muddy and like a rough draft of something that could be really good. I'd suggest cleaning up those frequencies (put only one instrument in a certain frequency range {Sub kick, bass, chords, lead, crash and noise}). Vocals need to come up and be brighter. Needs work but good stuff.

Lichen Throat - Ok, I could be totally off here, but I’m pretty sure you're using midi notes within your DAW (GarageBand, logic pro, Ableton, etc.). Nothing wrong with that, I use in-house synths for 95% percent of my sounds. Problem is, its painfully obvious its fake (now if this was your goal, you hit the mark). what I suggest is changing the velocity of your notes to make it sound as if its real, it just adds the depth you need. Option 2 (What I do many times and recommend): Use a midi controller to play the notes. This will add the natural velocity you need. You can then use quantizing to snap all your midi notes on beat. It’ll make life so much easier, trust me. Other than that, I like the song progression. Vocals are a little dark. Overall Good Job!
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Re: Dredging Up Some (From The Depths Reviews)

Postby lichenthroat » Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:08 pm

The Overambitious wrote:Lichen Throat - Ok, I could be totally off here, but I’m pretty sure you're using midi notes within your DAW (GarageBand, logic pro, Ableton, etc.). Nothing wrong with that, I use in-house synths for 95% percent of my sounds. Problem is, its painfully obvious its fake (now if this was your goal, you hit the mark). what I suggest is changing the velocity of your notes to make it sound as if its real, it just adds the depth you need. Option 2 (What I do many times and recommend): Use a midi controller to play the notes. This will add the natural velocity you need. You can then use quantizing to snap all your midi notes on beat. It’ll make life so much easier, trust me. Other than that, I like the song progression. Vocals are a little dark. Overall Good Job!

I'm not sure what you mean by "velocity." My usual composition process is to write the instrumental parts of the song as sheet music in a program called MuseScore, then have it export each instrument as a separate track. I then import all the individual instrument tracks into Audacity, record the vocal, and lastly do the final mix. The "fake"-ness you mention has been noted by others in the past. I would like to achieve the outcome you are advocating, so I both appreciate and am interested in your suggestion.
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Re: Dredging Up Some (From The Depths Reviews)

Postby The Overambitious » Mon Jul 31, 2017 7:07 am

lichenthroat wrote:I'm not sure what you mean by "velocity." My usual composition process is to write the instrumental parts of the song as sheet music in a program called MuseScore, then have it export each instrument as a separate track. I then import all the individual instrument tracks into Audacity, record the vocal, and lastly do the final mix. The "fake"-ness you mention has been noted by others in the past. I would like to achieve the outcome you are advocating, so I both appreciate and am interested in your suggestion.


So in programs such as GarageBand, Logic Pro X, Ableton, FL Studio, etc, there is something called velocity on midi notes. The velocity measure of the note tells your DAW to stimulate how hard that instrument is being hit, thus playing a different tonal quality (like if you lightly play a piano vs. bang on a piano) I don't think audacity does midi, it's a very limited program. I'd suggest getting like a demo of FL studio or ableton or pro tools and play with drawing midi notes
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Re: Dredging Up Some (From The Depths Reviews)

Postby Lunkhead » Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:00 am

The velocity primarily controls the volume of the note. What sounds the most fake is when every note has the exact same volume, particularly when that volume is the maximum loudness. People aren't capable of playing every note the exact same volume on instruments that are capable of producing different volume notes.
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Re: Dredging Up Some (From The Depths Reviews)

Postby vowlvom » Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:11 am

Berkeley Social Scene - BSS songs always seem to grow on me. In my review of Forest Full of Graves I said I didn’t like the chorus that much, but by the end of the week I had it solidly stuck in my head for a couple of days! I’m already liking this one more on a second listen, that main riff is a really good one and the lyrics are full of good lines. The synth solo is maybe a little too long for my liking - it might have more impact if it was cut to half the length. Bonus points for invoking the Kraken.

Step Aside - if I’m honest, I thought for the first verse that this was going to be a solidly-executed singer-songwriter-type song that I could appreciate but wouldn’t really like. Then the harmonies kicked in… and then the chorus EXPLODED! And wow, this is REALLY good. The vocal layering has such a great vibe to it.

Phunt Yer Friends - I don’t really know what to make of this. It’s enjoyably weird, but not something where I’d really come back for repeat listens.

The Overambitious - really enjoyed your production again, but this one didn’t quite click with me like your last entry did. Kudos for taking on the difficult subject matter, though, and it’s a solid listen.

Deadnettlez - have to agree with The Overambitious on this one. It’s a clever take on the title, but it’s just too gross to actually enjoy, sorry!

dark side of the son - this has an enjoyably moody atmosphere, but it does feel a bit too muddy at times. Echoing The Overambitious again, but this definitely feels like it has potential, it’s just not quite realised here.

Lichen Throat - I’m even more intrigued by your songs now that I know you write them in MuseScore! Having used it a couple of times I can only imagine it being an exhausting process to construct a whole song in this way, and you have my admiration! I’d be curious to see what you can do if you figure out a way to get a more naturalistic sound, but on the other hand I really dig the slightly robotic MIDI sounds, and this is another goodie. I love the hopeful chord progression that kicks in on the “out of the cave” sections.
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Re: Dredging Up Some (From The Depths Reviews)

Postby lichenthroat » Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:38 am

My thanks to those of you who have offered the velocity explanations!
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Re: Dredging Up Some (From The Depths Reviews)

Postby user » Mon Jul 31, 2017 7:33 pm

I've been ashamed to show my face around here ever since I shafted Rabid in GoM. I still owe you, man! Not making a Song Fight! entry until I've settled that account.

Just popping in to say, I'm loving the Phunt! It's weird as hell and sounds like something Egg would've made ten years ago.
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Re: Dredging Up Some (From The Depths Reviews)

Postby pegor » Wed Aug 02, 2017 12:41 pm

The Overambitious - The manufactured instrument sound is generally a turnoff for me, but this worked. I feel like the vocal harmonies in the chorus didn't mesh as well as they could have.

Step Aside - Really started out with a 'Every Rose has a its thorn' vibe, so I was all set to listen to it in a guy and guitar context. I think some of the Vocal production raised it out of GnG category, but then why not add some drums? Well sung and played.

lichen throat - The music was interesting ( it sounded like GB guitar?), the drums didn't match the feel of the string part to me. I wonder if s EQ-ing out the low end of the vox would make it sit better - maybe even just putting some kinda phone filter on it and doubling it up. Story wise it would have been cool to get a bridge from Emily's perspective.

Deadnettlez - Dr Demento's gassy early work? Disappointed it didn't end with a punchline like a fart noise or sumting.

BSS - I like it. the dumdedum served as a hook but I kinda wanted more melodic hookiness. Nice to know Rick Wakeman is still getting work.

Phunt - phunty, hard to dance to, needs an occasional Wilhelm scream echoing in the background-either that or a guitar solo

Dark side - has a feel of 'montypython made a horror movie'. The ambient guitar noodles were my fav part.
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Re: Dredging Up Some (From The Depths Reviews)

Postby lichenthroat » Wed Aug 02, 2017 2:12 pm

When I read vowlvom’s review, I was struck by how he seemed to have already expressed my exact opinions on all of this fight’s entries better than I could have done myself; we must have similar tastes. But here are a few supplemental thoughts:

Berkeley Social Scene—I didn’t pay attention to the lyrics until the third time through, but they’re good! I like the unrestrained aspects of the performance. Nice drumming.

dark side of the son—I don’t know quite how to explain this, but this song seems hard to hear; even if I turn the volume up a lot, it still seems too quiet. It could be more cohesive, but there are lots of nice moments, particularly the long chord at the end. I liked your “There Was Lasers” entry, by the way.

Deadnettlez—This was very funny, but not particularly listenable, both of which probably come as no surprise.

Lichen Throat—Yes, it’s 4 minutes and 12 seconds of Lichen Throat. This is loosely based on the rescue of Emily Mobley from Lechuguilla Cave in 1991. I got a little carried away with the representational elements, which didn’t come off as well as I’d hoped, and squeezing the narrative into the lyrics required some awkward phrases and off-rhymes. I’m also not sure why my voice is so weirdly low, since I used the same recording and mixing process as usual. On the positive side, I feel like I finally got a tiny bit of emotion to creep its way into a song.

The Overambitious—I really appreciate the sentiments expressed in the lyrics. It’s a bit overt for my taste, but interesting nonetheless. I like the swirly instrumentation. I’m impressed by how many different sounds you can fit into one song, without having it sound completely overwrought.

Phunt Yer Friends—This is…..interesting. I definitely pay attention every time through. One of your rhythm instruments kind of sounds like wind on the vocal mic. I’m not sure what the point of the song is, but I remain pleasantly intrigued.

Step Aside—Thanks for crushing the rest of us like grapes. Excellent, excellent work. Just when I thought it might start to get a tiny bit dull, you’d bust out a wonderful harmony at the perfect moment.
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Re: Dredging Up Some (From The Depths Reviews)

Postby deadnettlez » Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:21 pm

Berkeley Social Scene --- from the depths is a perfect metaphor for such a tragedy, as something that cannot be voted in, coughdonaldldtrumpcough When we are drawing straws ,,,,during ships mutiny,,,, I was cracking my thumbnails and my knuckles,,,, but also a boiling volcano can grow from a depths..... I continuously scream at the television and hackahackahackahacka at the appliances when I felt a sense of tragedy. Unrelevent aside....when I learned Bernie Sanders died....<link> real newz <link> but was he actually a donkey or some sort of Proto Marxist equivalent? Excellent theremin playing... when in Jem tasticle surf rocking proletarian Trout will be doing the mosh in memory of our Fallen leader ......this is been automatically generated from the hate speech generating algorithm <actual fact>

Dark Side of the Sun - another deep sea metaphor David Jones you're brilliant and quietly Gothic../. Question: //Are you from the south because this is a Southern Gothic ballad!! if I ever heard one!! Can i call u Eudora Welty? The devil is certainly a southern character.... i'd say.... Satan probably wore seersucker on the Gulf Shores is this maybe even a metaphor for an oil spill that happened in 2011 spilling the blood of dead sea dinousauraz upon the land and ocean alike/.// like how petroleum actually comes from space if you think about it? Only deep sea creatures that breathe with gills can drowned in thin air? UNLEZZ THEY"RE FROM SPACE?!

Lichen throat - love the Mandarin timpani MIDI. I have to tell you one of my favorite vocalist is Calvin Johnson from K records and so therefore... this is definitely going into my song Fight mixtape collection... Did you ever read our band could be your life? I know this song is probably about a kid getting stuck in a cave and needing a candy bar rope down to her,,,;;; But I can't help also remembering the vocalist in Lyricist Joanna Newsom ballad about an Emily (have you heard this one)?. I like to live in a deep cave one day. It might make for a quick enlightenment... My one piece of critical feedback Pizza doesn't necessarily rhyme with treat you. Actually if you deliver off rhyme in deadpan Bass baritone a pretty much goes full circle and becomes brilliant

The over-ambitious - everytime I hear your dubstep reverso beginning mantra I want to start glow stick raving ,,,; but seriously madd propz ,,,,since I'm a professional glow stick raver.... I want you to know that and this song is totally jammable !!! please amplify the emo nature of your emo brilliance !!! I've been looking at the trending Columns of the millennial Anthem generators. <link> And yes nothing will be all right !!! for your generation ,,,;;;; or any in this time of human extinction ENTERGENERTATION FRATRACIDEZ... I will definitely be bringing this to my Titanic parentheses( metaphorical earthship titanic ) larping party... doing ropez full of Blotter Benzoz.... and shooting up dah ....
I once sawl a Nickelodeon infomercial for a new songs of the new age and these samples are clearly ripped from Enya... TOoOO!
Oh I'll so I'm definitely going to bring this to my next mass shooting I'm going to put it on my head phonez///.... I'm going to put on my headphones.... The gas station on my corner just got one of those 3D gun printers.... so I'll make sure they get this in their bootleg tape collection. hope the cop doesn't put a cap in em for such copy right infringelmentz.... PZ . I FUCKING LOVE THAT CENSORSHIP end of word sound effect!! is it called the radio edit word cut? especially when the artistz use it so artfully az you have done.

Frontier friendz - any song that has the word chimera in it will win my weekly vote. secret code. upupdowndownleftrightleftrightBAstart.... mixing heat light and Ash will transform the total energy of any system deeply embedded Energies have been causing me to cut myself I must admit... the words "pleasurable experiences" end with harmonic resonance in G .nice touch

Step aside - indie folk pop hotjam. Utterly strummable .....when i next go to my Beach Boys (getting trapped in the Manson family ranch) LARPing experience next weekend I will bring thiz to the camp fire part....
This is totally deep so I'll most likely need to listen to it 17 more times to truly understand what sort of emotional metaphors are being conjured...... tragedy of the length frequency oscillation aside who are your harmonica friends who sing with you I want to get them on my next album ....;.;.;.;. apparently all roads lead back to me!!! I am Rome hear me roar!!! never mix MDMA with PBR
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Re: Dredging Up Some (From The Depths Reviews)

Postby Toby Roktot » Sat Aug 05, 2017 4:05 pm

Going for stepaside on this one.
Nothing else worth a vote but, can't not vote for two.
So, the burp guy...sayin'
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Re: Dredging Up Some (From The Depths Reviews)

Postby owl » Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:12 am

Phunt: This was cool! I really enjoyed the spoken word selection. The musical backing felt a little too loose and also a bit too repetitive to me, but I liked the weirdness of this on the whole.

Step Aside: Very nice harmonies and guitar work! It does have a "hair metal ballad"/AOR vibe that is not my favorite but I think it's very well done.

dark side of the son: Love the bendy bells in the beginning. I liked this, it made me think of "The Bells"-era Lou Reed doing a pirate shanty, I just agree with the other comments that some work on the mix/arrangement would help take it to the next level.

Lichen Throat: I haven't been Songfighting long but from everything I've seen think you generally have really excellent lyrics, interesting inspirations and sharp execution, this is no exception. Musically/vocally, this reminded me of newer Mark Kozelek/Sun Kil Moon albums. That pause before "hours tick by" was very cool. It went by a bit too long without melodic or dynamic variation for my tastes but that is true of many new Sun Kil Moon songs too :)
Also I'm impressed that you write all this as sheet music! That seems incredibly difficult to me. (Even when parts are repetitive I usually just play and record the whole thing live, either via USB MIDI controller keyboard or by mic'ing an actual amped keyboard, although that's usually to my detriment because I can seldom get one good take and I'm not good at comping.)

The Overambitious: The vocal feels a bit out of place here--too buried, not enough reverb or something? It's not sitting in the mix as well as other tracks I've heard from you. The frantic panning gave me a headache a little bit. I liked the kind of rapped parts and would have liked more of that! I liked how powerful and earnest you got with the lyrical content as well.

Deadnettlez: I didn't really make it very far in this, to be honest, sorry, so I'm not sure what constructive input I can give. It's certainly original and distinctive.

BSS: Great energy! This was a really fun listen. I liked the synth solo and appreciated all the different parts of the song--it kept my interest with all the changes.
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Re: Dredging Up Some (From The Depths Reviews)

Postby Lunkhead » Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:01 am

owl wrote:The Overambitious: The vocal feels a bit out of place here--too buried, not enough reverb or something? It's not sitting in the mix as well as other tracks I've heard from you.


Yeah, this really jumped out at me. The vocals sound so super duper dry but everything else in the track has so much space and ambience. The vox really really need some reverb on them to make them match up with the style of everything else, at least for a lot of the time. Might be cool to have a few moments of dry vocals to accent certain lines.
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Re: Dredging Up Some (From The Depths Reviews)

Postby Lunkhead » Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:33 pm

Congrats BSS.
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Re: Dredging Up Some (From The Depths Reviews)

Postby The Overambitious » Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:45 pm

Thanks for the feedback. I do hear it a little.
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