From Grey to Gandalf (The White Morph reviews)

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jast
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Re: From Grey to Gandalf (The White Morph reviews)

Post by jast »

Here, Atticus wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:27 pm
Idk why the high end over-bothers me in my music, it always happens and I need to remember to pay attention to it. After writing and tracking instruments each fight, I usually only have a day or less to mix, and I find myself messing up on the things I thought I finally had figured out.
I think this gets better with practice - when I started out mixing my songs I had absolutely no clue, and I never really spent a ton of time on any mix but I've still gotten better, or at least I hope so.
One thing - apart from trying a different listening system, of course - you can do to nail the overall sound better is to find a reference track in the same genre that you like, and periodically compare your mix against it while mixing. It's one of those tips that sound like a tiny thing but can make a huge difference.
most of my music
Song Fight-related stuff I host: ZIP archives // Circle of Titles
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Re: From Grey to Gandalf (The White Morph reviews)

Post by CazaroTaro »

With 18 songs to review, I have taken a methodical approach to reviewing combined with minimal feedback. My methodology is:

1. I listen to each song, all the way through, at least twice.
2. I do read the lyrics.
3. I do not read comments of other reviewers prior to posting.
4. I separate the songs into 3 categories:
a. Songs that probably will get a vote
b. Songs that may get a vote
c. Songs that probably won’t get a vote
5. I vote for 20% of the songs rounded up to the nearest integer. For this round, I will be voting for 4 songs.

Results:

Category 1: Probably Will Get a Vote
Brothers Baker
Lichen Throat

Category 2: May Get a Vote
Miscellaneous Owl
Night Sky
Vom Vorton
Brown Word and the Big Whine

Category 3: Probably Won't Get a Vote
Duncan Martin
The Heavy Late Bombardment
Hot Pink Halo
IRC USM
JP Nickolas
Lean To
The Magnetic Letters
Moody Vermin
orat0rical0rator
Phlebia
Sly Eli
Thieves of Reason

Advice Such As It Is

I am abominable at giving specific advice. Here is a list of some of the questions I consider when making a song:

a. Is there a hook to make the song memorable?
b. Is there a riff, motif, or ostinato that makes the song memorable?
c. Is there a rhythmic change, or a change in pace that makes the song interesting
d. Does the song have dynamic variations?
e. Is there a modulation that makes the song more interesting?
f. Is the chord progression/melody combination interesting?
g. Are the vocals present in the mix and understandable?
h. If singing a double or harmony with the lead vocal, are the extra vocals in good time with the lead vocal?
i. If playing real instruments, are the instruments in tune and played in time?
j. Have I taken advantage of the stereo field?
k. Is the tone of the song muffled or too bright?
l. Is the song too long?
m. Is there a section that seems to go on too long?
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Re: From Grey to Gandalf (The White Morph reviews)

Post by CazaroTaro »

I did a read through of the reviews on my song. I am appreciative and amazed that you folks have the time and will to provide specific feedback. Thank you.

I don't have a great deal of heavy metal songs to use as reference tracks. I ended up using several songs from Spinal Tap as my reference tracks. As a result, my mixing choices were made to replicate the sound of these songs, though, listening now a week later, I may have overcooked the cymbals. My lyrics may have been influenced by these songs as well.

Sunny and warm weather has arrived and prioritized my spare time to yardwork. As a result I couldn't put together a song worth entering for Potential Consequences. Maybe the next one. . . . .
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Re: From Grey to Gandalf (The White Morph reviews)

Post by slyeli »

Brother Baker:
I love the riff in this. You handle the switch from heavy to clean vocals really well. I like that you don't over use the heavy growl, it's just enough to make the song interesting without being oppressive. I usually find metal hard to get into but you've made it accessible whilst still feeling authentic.

Brown Word and the Big Whine:
I've heard a few of your songs now and this is by far my favourite of them. The mix is nicely done so that it sounds like you're singing with a band surrounding you. I like how you bring the heavy sections in and out so that they have maximum impact. The switching between a growl and singing is also used well for maximum impact. Nice song.

Catherine Wacha:
This is an unusual song. At first it seem pretty straight forward but when your singing comes in it sounds unlike anything else I've heard before. At times when you do a quick slide on the note it sounds a little Bob Dylan-esq but the long slow slides are really unique. I'm not sure if I like it or not but it makes the performance stand out.

CazaroTaro:
You have quite a robotic vocal delivery and melody that fits well with the scientific style of the lyrics. I'm enjoying the story that you're painting.

Duncan Martin:
The intro to this reminds me of Flash by Queen, in a good way. Kudos for trying the metal challenge. I'm not sure your style of mix is quite right for metal, not that I'd really know what was right, but I'm enjoying the song.

Hot Pink Halo:
This one has definitely grown on me after multiple listens. At first I wasn't too keen but now I'm enjoying the almost medieval folk feel. The discordant sound of the music fits well with the lyrics.

IRC USM:
To me this sounds like an unusual mix of styles. The vocal melody has an almost religious chant like feel whereas the music is metal. I like the contrast between the too, it makes for an interesting listen.

JP Nickolas:
The precision of guitar playing on this seems like a step up from the other songs of yours I've heard. I like how you mix the clean rhythmic guitar sound with the heavier elements. Nice use of the metal growl, to make the melodic chorus seem sweeter when it comes in.

The Late Heavy Bombardment:
It's nice to have a more chilled out song after a run of metal tunes. The strings and chimes add a dreamy feel to this which is lovely. I'm enjoying this.

Lean To:
I really like the imagery you've created of the geese and the clouds swirling around them. I think that's a clever take on The White Morph title. The fit right in/slip right in lines are nice too.

Lichen Throat:
Your intro guitar riff is really good, and the little bit you play before the chorus too. Great chorus singing, you've come up with a catchy tune here. The "Elmer" shouts are a nice touch too.

The Magnetic Letters:
I think splitting the song into a softer intro before a heavier song means that the heavy section looses impact. When it first comes in it hits hard but after that it's too repetitive. If you'd alternated between the softer and heavier sections you could have made it hit hard all the way through.

miscellaneous owl:
This is awesome. The drums and the build up of the vocal into that discordant chorus is really well done. The whole thing fits in brilliantly with the lyrics. For me, this is the stand out song of this fight.

Moody Vermin:
I like the wailing guitar sounds you've got in the background. It almost sounds like running though the static bands on a radio. There's some really nice guitar touches in this, that I'm enjoying.

Night Sky:
Lovely sax playing, as usual. I like the contrast between the almost rapped verse and the sung chorus. The loose rhymes like menagerie and strategy are a nice touch too.

orat0rical0rator:
I'm having trouble picking out any structure in this. The music seems fairly formless before the high pitched section comes in. It's almost jazzy in the way the different parts seem to be doing their own thing.

Phlebia:
I'm not usually a fan of metal but I'm enjoying this. It's a full on assault of the ears but the strong rhythms stop it from becoming too mushy.

Thieves of Reason:
I'm assuming you mixed the vocals loudly deliberately for effect, because there are places in the song where you mix them in at a more balanced level. I prefer the instrumental sections because of the mix and I can hear the guitar playing better.

Vom Vorton:
I really like the whole story you've created here about Morph and Chas. The whole doppelganger angle works really well. I'm enjoying the heavier elements that you've put into the song because they're still well balanced with the other aspects and they don't overpower anything. Nice tune.
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Re: From Grey to Gandalf (The White Morph reviews)

Post by Pigfarmer Jr »

Lunkhead wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 9:14 pm
Thanks Pigfarmer....
You are most welcome. All y'all that do the heavy lifting on the site deserve the real thanks, though.
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Re: From Grey to Gandalf (The White Morph reviews)

Post by lichenthroat »

I’ve had unusually little time to review this week, so reviews are late and short.

Brother Baker—I like the music: heavy but still melodic. The dueling vocals work well together, as usual for you.

Brown Word and the Big Whine—Certainly metal. Good musicianship on the guitar. The vocal matches the style of the song well.

Catherine Wacha—The vocal is super interesting, both in its timbre and your style of performance style. I definitely want to hear more songs from you. Since the vocal is so clearly in the spotlight, I think you were wise not to avoid having a complex instrumental potentially interfere with it.

CazaroTaro—Nice intro. Kind of a Devo sound here, which I like. I like the changes in chord progression at unexpected moments.

Duncan Martin—The multi-tracked vocal gives this a unique atmosphere. I like the lyrics. I think this might benefit from a more prominent and sustained drum rhythm.

Hot Pink Halo—Your voice sounds great in this song. I felt like the song might have grown on me more if I had had time to listen to it a few more times. I the violin-focused section too.

IRC USM—I like the mix of metal instrument tones with a renaissance-like melody. This is a fun song.

JP Nickolas—Love the intro. You seem very comfortable in this genre; I think this is your most confidant-sounding vocal. I’ll add my weekly compliment to your guitar playing.

The Late Heavy Bombardment—Very calming; you immediately bring me into your world. Good job. (As I was writing this, there was a buzzing noise in the background that I thought was part of your song, and which I wrote a complaint about, only to later realize that it was coming from a source in my house and wasn’t part of your song at all.)

Lean To—I like starting with the vocal immediately. Great vintage sound on this. The piano seems just a bit loud in the mix. Good atmosphere.

Lichen Throat (me)—Why did I mix that vocal so high? No idea. Thanks to those of you who have embraced the weirdness of this one.

The Magnetic Letters—I admire your commitment to concept. I was definitely taken by surprise the first time through. I like how you got the growly vocal, but it’s still intelligible.

miscellaneous owl—The Narrative of Arthur Gordon Pym of Nantucket is one of my favorite books, and I happen to have recently reread it. The lyrics capture the spirit of the novel well, and I like the liner note you wrote about your interpretation. It’s fun to hear you do metal. (When I first read the book in high school, I had just purchased R.E.M.’s Fables of the Reconstruction, which makes a fine atmospheric soundtrack to the novel and which I will always associate with it. Now I can add your song to that.)

Moody Vermin—This would be very much at home on several of the metal albums my friends used to listen to, but which I cannot now identify by name. Good musicianship all around.

Night Sky—I really like the rhythm of your vocal. I’m bopping my head to it as I write. This feels well-crafted.

orat0rical0rator—Is that a marimba? Whatever it is, it sounds cool. I like the unexpected change about halfway through.

Phlebia—Your guitar tone sounds cool and fits the song well. I felt continuously assaulted, in a good way. And I love that you wrote a song about mushrooms.

Sly Eli—I like the classical beginning, and the transition to the more contemporary sound. This is so lush. I like your vocal melodies, especially in the chorus. Among my favorites this week.

Thieves of Reason—Your vocal is mixed pretty loud, to the point of distraction. That aside, I like the weird double tracking and the vocal flair. Heavy and fun at the same time.

Vom Vorton—This sounds like a metal band covering one of your normal songs. Drums sound good, and I like how prominent they are in the mix.
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Re: From Grey to Gandalf (The White Morph reviews)

Post by lichenthroat »

jast wrote:
Sat Feb 13, 2021 12:31 pm
Lichen Throat: The guitar sounds a little "rapid fire". It's programmed, right? What's your workflow for that? I'm curious. I suspect you're placing notes with the mouse - it's really, really hard to humanize a performance that way, unfortunately.
Everything but the vocal is programmed. I compose the songs as sheet music in a program called MuseScore, then export a midi file to Reaper to adjust the instrument tones, record the vocal, and do the final mix. Sometimes I use the "Humanize" functionality of Reaper, but I don't think I did on this song. I can never actually hear any difference myself, but I suspect that some of the people here might be able to.

Thanks for the comments!
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Re: From Grey to Gandalf (The White Morph reviews)

Post by tomdg »

Yeah, what do I know. But I do like metal so the optional challenge was good fun.

Brother Baker: Starts with a really strong opening riff - I love the whole intro. I'm a purist when it comes to metal and prefer it without keyboard, but that's just a taste thing. Range of vocal styles might have been better sticking to just one - somewhere between the out-and-out growl and the more sung style there were bits I felt were absolutely perfect. Listening to this gives me admiration of how difficult it is to get clarity among the different parts in this style of music, there are bits where it felt a bit confused. Loved the way the guitar rang at the end, I could see it going into a more lyrical middle section.

Brown Word and the Big Whine: Like the riff in the "Can you feel it coming on". Loving the heaviness in the tempo and the drums. The ominous drop for low-so-low is a great change of feel.

Catherine Wacha - Nice subtle lead bits between the singing. Every time it comes in, I feel like I'm coming back home. Makes the backbone of a nice structure.

Cazaro Taro - Short and tight. Reminds me faintly of Jilted John! Like the sparseness of "she's not well". Sweet and quirky lyrics

Duncan Martin - Unusual genre mashup, I'm getting lots of country vibes and a lot of dirt.

Hot Pink Halo - Like the violin and generally really interesting instrumentation. It feels like you have a really good sense of when it's just too much and consistently stop just before that point. This feels like something from Piper at the Gates of Dawn.

Ircusm - Feels like some interesting harmonies over the crunchy guitar base.

Nick Hilton - Like the guitar line, sounds like a healthy amount of drop tuning. Great contrast with the tone of the solo and break.

The Late Heavy Bombardment - The last line of the verse seems to straggle on a bit long, which feels untidy. I like the solo, the song needs the break from the languid feel before this.

Snow Geese - The descending chordline caused by the G# is interesting. Gets quite complex bordering on messy towards the end.

Lichen Throat - Quirky and creative take on the theme. I like the shift in tempo near the end.

magneticletters - This totally made me lol, not just the contrast but the way the OTT grindcore and random beeping guitar.

miscellaneousowl - Makes me want to headbang. The processing on the voice is great. You've totally nailed the sound, the drums and the low guitar. Love the rhythm and repetition in the verse too. Bonus for mentioning Bittern.

moodyvermin - I like the intentional use of uncomfortable harmonies in the prechorus(?) guitars. The white morph chorus has some great riffage. Like the break section after the 2nd chorus, with the choppy guitars etc. Proper job with the solo!

Night Sky - The penultimate chord in the chorus feels like it's going somewhere else. Nice sax especially in the break. Pleasantly chilled.

Orat0rical0rator - Whatever you're doing with the voice is … interesting. Interesting textures generally.

Phlebia - Properly dirty guitars, and nice contrast between them. Love the topic, my favouritely named mushroom. Like the way you fit the words in the prechorus. The first cousin break is great.

Slyeli - Like the 4th chord on the chorus (Vm?) Good use of strings and the occasional half bar. I like the way you use the brass too.

thievesofreason - I prefer the voice slightly lower in the mix. Like the guitar line between verses. Is that a Blue Box?

Vom Vorton - Intro riff quite reminiscent of an early Manic Street Preachers track (and a good one at that).

There were several songs where I didn't get the link with the title, but then that's probably just because I didn't understand the title. I wondered what it meant, my interpretation was a white supremacist reinventation of the 1970's animated clay figure man (which fortunately for you all I never got round to recording :) )
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Re: From Grey to Gandalf (The White Morph reviews)

Post by mo »

Double post
Last edited by mo on Sat Feb 20, 2021 10:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: From Grey to Gandalf (The White Morph reviews)

Post by mo »

I didn’t have time to review this week but a few liner notes for Moody Vermin:

I primarily wrote the riffs and the guitar for the song this time, which was a conscious choice to combine elements of Megadeth and Helmet, as two disparate metal bands I like. Thus the sort of Symphony of Destruction verse riff with the sort of Hangar 18 chord line but via Helmet voicings of minor chords.

I played my Axis with a Floyd so I could do stupid whammy tricks, but hey they’re fun, and if you do them in most other genres you sound like a total a-hole so make hay etc. Got about a years worth in there.

Evermind did the vocals and I think he did the lyric also, off Roy’s inspiration. It’s about a squirrel gathering food, but phrased in typical Iron Maiden type epic horror verbiage. I appreciate that everyone has different tastes; personally I think Evermind’s vocal is pretty good for the song, it has tension, it has growl, it has both kinds of music. I actually don’t know that a soaring vocal would add much, but YMMV.

Evermind is also the one who noted the time signatures in the song; honestly I knew it wasn’t 4/4 but mostly when I demo I just have a track of 4/4 or a click going and I just go, so it’s not like I ever count until I have to, and sometimes I miss the weird polymetric things when the real drums get put in (bc sometimes you need a little wrong in your life. That’s what I tell myself about my ex anyway). Mainly it’s 7s and 4s though (all /4), except for the one bit that Evermind tells me is something super weird, the hits and harmonics. I hear it as a bar of 2 and a bar of 3 followed by 2/3/3 but hey I’m just a guitar player.

Thanks for the kind words on the solo; it’s pretty much the wall of notes style rather than the here’s some phrases style or the here’s a melody style, but I thought it fit; it’s a story about anxiety, that’s what I was going for, over a verse section. For anyone who might vaguely care, keeping with the D diminished feel of the riffs, we do some of that, a little Lydian Dominant, a little regular melodic minor, and then a bunch of crap tapping.

My last note which maybe is of more interest for mixing ideas, is about the stereo image. I didn’t do the main mix this time but I did pre-pan the guitars to save Evermind’s time a bit as of course the whole thing was a last minute special as usual. So I stole a note from the Tool song 46 & 2, by which I mean the guitars are in stereo for the verses and mono for the chorus, to try to create contrasting feels between openness and focus, which I think worked ok but next time might try to use a mono plugin to do it to the whole track as that would probably be more dramatic.
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Re: From Grey to Gandalf (The White Morph reviews)

Post by Lunkhead »

miscellaneous owl and Brother Baker tie!
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Re: From Grey to Gandalf (The White Morph reviews)

Post by mo »

Congrats guys!
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Re: From Grey to Gandalf (The White Morph reviews)

Post by vowlvom »

Congrats, I pronounce you CHAMPIONS OF METAL!
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Re: From Grey to Gandalf (The White Morph reviews)

Post by crumpart »

Congrats Bakers and Owl!

***

Also, thanks for the comments on my song. Again, I didn't get around to reviews this week. While my song was not heavy metal, I did try to address the challenge in other ways. Originally the song was going to be about my favourite chapter in Moby Dick, Chapter 42: The Whiteness of the Whale, but I ended up making it about the pigment Lead White instead. And like heavy metallists of yore, I borrowed heavily from a piece of classical music. I've been learning part (the easier part) of Hebrew Melody by Joseph Achron, which is absolutely one of my favourite things to play, so I played out a couple of sections of the melody, rearranged it into an AABA structure, harmonised, then deleted the original melody. It was a fun way to work. Here's the full original piece, which is just heartbreakingly beautiful.

Devil’s got me Lindt! Devil’s got me Lindt!
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Re: From Grey to Gandalf (The White Morph reviews)

Post by Pigfarmer Jr »

Congratz to the winners. Some cool fights lately.
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Re: From Grey to Gandalf (The White Morph reviews)

Post by Here, Atticus »

Woo! Thanks all! Super honored to share the win with Owl.

P.S. Tomdg, I swear to you there are no keyboards in our track. All guitars!
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Re: From Grey to Gandalf (The White Morph reviews)

Post by catherinewacha »

oratoricalorator wrote:
Thu Feb 11, 2021 4:24 pm


Thanks for the feedback on my song, I struggle with harder production but will work on this one to get it a bit harder.

Catherine Wacha - you have an amazing voice, i love the rawness and the grit. I kind of wish the instruments had more grit/distortion/more of an edge to them to match the vocals. I feel like currently they feel slightly mismatched but i think the vocals are super strong !!!! The drum fills are nice too


:o
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Re: From Grey to Gandalf (The White Morph reviews)

Post by mo »

Anytime someone says metal and Moby Dick, I think we’re required to post some Mastodon, I’m pretty sure I read that somewhere

https://youtu.be/4Kp0LxKTZhk
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Re: From Grey to Gandalf (The White Morph reviews)

Post by FireBear »

Thank you all! And congrats Owl on also winning. Your song was awesome.
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Re: From Grey to Gandalf (The White Morph reviews)

Post by owl »

woohoo, thanks everyone and congrats to my co-champions Brother Baker! I didn’t have time to review this fight but wanted to give some random shoutouts to Lichen Throat for great work on the chorus vocals this week, Phlebia for an awesome song with mushrooms in it, and Magnetic Letters for making me laugh.
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Re: From Grey to Gandalf (The White Morph reviews)

Post by crumpart »

I would like to give a shout-out to Magnetic Letters for making me think of one of my favourite television characters of all time, Blackboard from Mr Squiggle.
Devil’s got me Lindt! Devil’s got me Lindt!
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