That's the longest one I've ever seen (RE-TVC Reviews)

Discuss upcoming, current, and previous song fights.

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Postby blue » Thu Nov 03, 2005 8:50 pm

erikb wrote:"This sucks, curl up and die" is unspecific, and really just an insult to the the person


Phunt deserve insults to the person, because they are 100% full of shit. It's a big game to them to post this tripe and then pretend to pretend it's art, all while freely admitting that it's just bullshit.

It's just not funny. It wasn't funny when the first thirty idiots did it, and it won't be funny when the next thirty idiots do it.
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Postby erik » Thu Nov 03, 2005 9:02 pm

Oh yeah, I wasn't trying to say that you can't insult the person. I'm just saying that if you present a reason along with the insult, then it's easier for a third party to see where you are coming from.
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Postby WeaselSlayer » Thu Nov 03, 2005 9:03 pm

My point isn't that we should all be like "great job buddy keep it up!" I just don't think that any time someone doesn't like something they have to be a shit about it or try to word it in the most crass way they can. I think that criticism should be hard to take, but for the right reasons, it shouldn't be hard to take because you have to look past the fact that someone is being an asshole to get to the actual meat of the comment.
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Postby Mogosagatai » Thu Nov 03, 2005 9:03 pm

blue wrote:all while freely admitting that it's just bullshit


Wha? We do that?

You can be really dense, blue. Not to fan the flames or anything. Guess I'll have to do reviews now...
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Postby blue » Thu Nov 03, 2005 9:14 pm

Mogosagatai wrote:Hahaha, are you serious? I mean, it's long, to be sure, but do you really think we made a classical piano piece just to irritate people? Seems a little... I dunno... out of the way. What with all the key changes and complicated, intertwining melodies and harmonies, and the way all those work together to tell an epic mythological story. I don't think you actually listened to it. But whatever.


Mogosagatai wrote:
blue wrote:are you really going to say that pt III wasn't one of you sitting in front of a kbd and wanking around for 15 minutes?


Neither of us can play the piano (at least not well). That's all programmed MIDI.

If you say "that one measure from Mozart's overture to <i>Die Entfuhrung der Nuremburg</i>, then... you're right. It is in there, once, from 3:07 to 3:10 (and it's not actually accurate, just close to it). There are also quotes of a Foo Fighters bassline, a Boltoph guitar part, and some Luke Henley vocals.

The rest of it is built <i>almost</i> entirely out of themes from previous phuntsongs. Like, so many of them I lost count.


so how do you reconcile those statements?

A: "We wrote a classical piano piece with meaning."

B: "We shat on a piano roll."

A does not equal B. You can't make statement A fifteen minutes before statement B without being completely full of shit. So, you are full of shit.
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Postby pegor » Thu Nov 03, 2005 9:17 pm

I think the coolness of songfight is taking the brutal reviews and trying to hone your craft based on the feedback. It's SongToughlove. Does Phunt try to respect the reviews and improve? Who the phunt knows? At least they are willing to be the wiping post. Clearly from the phunt forum post there is some creativity and humor in phuntland. I wish they would attempt at least one "Song"

As someone who has had a his share of 'this sucks', 'this is hard to listen to' reviews I love phunt because they lower the curve. Phunt makes me feel like Im not the last kid picked for kickball.
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Postby Mostess » Thu Nov 03, 2005 9:21 pm

Mogosagatai wrote:Glenn and anyone else, for an example of what you might consider non-random non-crap, try out section III, in which Phunt rides JoS's coattails to stardom. If you hate section II, you'll probably also hate section I. However, I assure you that all three are pure genius.


I assure you Jim's coattails left without you long ago. You guys need to shut your mouths, open your ears, buy an eraser and learn to use it. Section III is about as empty of content but drowning in notes as any piece I've ever heard. And blue's point stands: wanking doesn't require skill. MIDI programming is as fine a vehicle for wankery as any. You've proved it.

Pick an idea or two and develop it. You're babbling in these songs. Figure out what you're trying to say, and say it. Bjam's defense aside, you guys really suck at what you do. You want to hear ponderous monotonous crap done well, get Bowie's "Low." You want to hear self-righteous soap-boxy wankery done well, get some Laurie Anderson. You don't win points by breaking rules. You win them by knowing which rules to break.

I assure you that all three of your sections are too long, too monotonous, too careless and sloppy, too underdeveloped to be of any interest to anyone except (maybe) yourselves. I assure you that if your intention was to please listeners, you need to figure out who you're writing for. I suspect it's pretty much yourselves.

If Glenn and anyone else wants non-random, non-crap, there are plenty of other songwriters here to provide it. Your Section III is disasterous. 15 minutes is as long as it takes to write a decent song, not to listen to one. That it's the end of the series is its best quality.

And seriously, "stardom?" "Genius?" You guys are nuts.
"We don’t write songs about our own largely dull lives. We mostly rely on the time-tested gimmick of making shit up."
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Postby Mogosagatai » Thu Nov 03, 2005 9:22 pm

I--uh... bwa...um.

I never said B. I said A twice.

Hey Pegor... our "All Skate" is <i>close</i> to what you might call a real song. So are "Funeral Director", "Come a Hellin'" (by Here, let me phunt you:), and "Jalopy" (by SFO). Those are our closest "sell-outs", I'd say.
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Postby Bjam » Thu Nov 03, 2005 9:24 pm

Making a song that is recognizable as a song is not selling out.
Songfighter since back in the day.
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Postby Mostess » Thu Nov 03, 2005 9:30 pm

Bjam wrote:Making a song that is recognizable as a song is not selling out.


Exactly. It's songwriting.
"We don’t write songs about our own largely dull lives. We mostly rely on the time-tested gimmick of making shit up."
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Postby erik » Thu Nov 03, 2005 9:57 pm

WeaselSlayer wrote:My point isn't that we should all be like "great job buddy keep it up!" I just don't think that any time someone doesn't like something they have to be a shit about it or try to word it in the most crass way they can. I think that criticism should be hard to take, but for the right reasons, it shouldn't be hard to take because you have to look past the fact that someone is being an asshole to get to the actual meat of the comment.

When reviewing this fight, other people wrote:
WeaselSlayer wrote:Phunt: Though they're having some issues at the mome, I have heard the entire Phunt Vishnu track and it is their first true masterpiece. I'm not lying. It's absolutely chilling and brilliant. I love Phunt very much, they know what's up.
Puce wrote:<b>Phunt Your Friends:</b> Neat sound design ideas, especially around 4:00. Now put them in a real song.
Caravan Ray wrote:PHUNTYOURFRIENDS: Years of substance abuse has left me with the attention span of a goldfish. Not only couldn't I dance to this - but I forgot why I stood up in the first place.
melvin wrote:Phunt Your Friends: As usual, I’m loving the sonic barrage, and these days, I know better than to expect a song to emerge. But dang, after 5 minutes, the sonic barrage hasn’t even changed!! Sounds like acoustic guitar feedback. Zzzzzz. Not good. You know, you really do not need to stretch a one-minute idea out to eight minutes. What good does it do for anyone? I mean, ANYONE?
GlennCase wrote:Phunt Your Friends: Submissions like this are almost enough reason to have quality screening on this site. If you just threw a bunch of random crap together? Sorry, you didn't make the cut. Try again next week. It's [awful], but you knew that. Congratulations on wasting the time of anyone who listens to the whole track. Be aware that you are not the first annoying songfight group, and I'm sure that you won't be the last either.
Rone Rivendale wrote:Phunt Your Friends: Honestly, I didn't like anything about this song. I don't like the number of Instrumentals this time around. And this one was over 8 minutes long. F
blue wrote:are you really going to say that pt III wasn't one of you sitting in front of a kbd and wanking around for 15 minutes? because i heard a lot of classical song quotes and pure BS in there.

go ahead, show us a scan of the charts. :P

and please don't compare yourselves to the Books. you're not even close. if you WERE close, i'd like your music. i mean, if you made music. and it was close.


Which of these reviews was worded in the most crass way that the reviewer could? Because honestly, I could be 100X more crass than any of these people if you want a real display of what a truly inappropriate, unhelpful comment looks like.

You are at the very least exaggerating, and at the very worst outright lying when you say that anyone in this thread is being as mean as possible in their reviews.
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Postby Mostess » Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:01 pm

erikb wrote:You are at the very least exaggerating, and at the very worst outright lying when you say that anyone in this thread is being as mean as possible in their reviews.


I believe the words you're looking for are "thin-skinned" and "insecure."
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Postby bz£ » Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:08 pm

Here are some opinions of mine. They will probably offend you. Don't take it so personally. Your reviews probably offended me too, so we're even. It's just a case of different ideas about things, so, don't sweat it too much.

Ashok henley and some phunt friends. The percussion is neat. This is strangely compelling: I don't actually like it but that doesn't mean I want it to go away, either. Like a gruesome motor accident, one can't look away. Or maybe that's not really the best metaphor.

Beefy. Doe, a deer, a nerdcore deer! It's not as bad as people have made it seem, but, well, it's still nothing special. The beat goes nowhere, does nothing, and it's too obvious that this is the case. The lyrics at least show some effort, which is nice.

Bombathon. I think I would have upped the tempo just a little bit. This does have some change-ups but they are all of the "turn off one of the voices for the next four measures" variety. There is just nothing unexpected happening.

Caravan ray. This has some pretty neat sounds. I get the feeling that everything is a sample; it's a collage vibe. If I didn't know that there were lyrics, I wouldn't have believed it: it's mostly mumbling at or below the threshold of hearing. I don't see why this is any more valid a "song" than, say, the next entry...

Charcoal. The drums are the weakest part, I think, but a combination of "freak snowstorm," "laziness" and "wanted to watch football instead" kept me from driving to the place where I was going to record real drums for this piece.

Frankie and whoever. Shouldn't it be "phalangists?" There are lyrics, which I guess makes it a song, but I can't tell what any of them are saying. Probably sex like animals, or sex with animals, or something like that; I hear that's a popular topic in these parts. It sounds like perhaps this was mixed on headphones? It's all too trebly, sounds like you ran the final mix through an aural exciter a couple of times.

Gleen. The first thing that comes to mind about the mix is that you should try this with the rhythm guitar as an acoustic. I think it would sit better, but then, I don't even know what a song is, so take my suggestions with a grain of salt.

Jim t. It's clever and you pulled it off well. It's totally forgivable that this is a meta-songfight! song but I hope that nobody ever does it again. It only works once.

Max the cat. Not at all what I was expecting but maybe I have you confused with someone else. This would be cool if the samples were actual samples, like, if you had a clip of James Earl Jones saying "This is the shittiest title ever" then that would be awesome. But I know it's just you saying it, so it's kind of a drag.

Melvin. It's funny, but I think that this song is less fitting to the title than most, and I include various instrumentals and might-as-well-have-been-instrumentals there. This is still a good song, though, maybe even the best one in the fight. The baby voice isn't really irritating or anything, but it doesn't feel like it belongs-- too silly for the mood of the song.

Mostly harmless. Typically slick production. It seems like the song isn't sure whether I should take it seriously or not. The "solo" is wicked cool, as we like to say up here in the northeast. The Vishnucycle joke at the end is hilarious but I know that it's only there as a nod to the other half of the assigned title, and that kinda ruins it for me.

Small town mike. I guess it's good but it doesn't engage me. I keep thinking that I hear brief flashes of the Pixies, but the moments are fleeting.

Those wacky meddling kids. This is the only song in this fight that I will ever listen to again, willingly. I'd have done things differently with it, and it feels like it needs more development. It ought to be about three times longer than it is; I'd like to hear that main loop like sixty times instead of three or four. Incidentally this sounds a lot better in my car than on my home studio monitors-- at home, it's all too low and the few chirpy bits of percussion are way too chirpy. That's balanced out by the fact that I can't drink beer while I drive around and listen in my car, so I guess I'm about equally happy overall.

Zombie love militia. Zombies are cool, and who doesn't love love? And I guess militia are nice, too; I mean, those folks are willing to shoot people just to protect their homes and stuff. I wish the lyrics were in another language or something, because the story is just so ridiculous. If I pay attention to what the words are saying I feel embarassed for them. Maybe the male voice should be saying something different at the same time, or delayed, like a round. Then I'd be able to enjoy all the sounds together.

Phunt, your friends. I hear this link was broken earlier, which explains why it didn't get wgetted the first time around. I guess I oughta go listen. Okay, it's annoying, but I don't see why it's so offensive to everyone. I know people who are into this sort of thing. On the other hand, y'all can probably lay off the heavy spin campaign: true or not, I doubt anyone here is going to believe that every bit of noise is carefully placed and articulated to tell some epic story. Maybe it is, but it's too hard for us to see it, you know? So we just assume it's not really there, and since most people don't like to listen to this sort of thing anyways, it draws a lot of hate.

Honestly, I'd rather listen to this than stuff like, say, Melvin or Smalltown Mike, even though those latter are "better songs" by almost any definition I can imagine. And I don't mean to diss those two either, they are just good examples of more traditional tunes. Then again, I have some pretty stupid ideas about what makes a song good to listen to, because I am a dirty Communist or something.
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Postby Mogosagatai » Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:10 pm

Bjam wrote:Making a song that is recognizable as a song is not selling out.


Oh I know. That's why I put it in quotes.
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Postby bz£ » Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:13 pm

Oops, sorry, didn't mean to interrupt this fight with my reviews; I'll come back later.
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Postby GlennCase » Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:15 pm

bzl wrote:Gleen. The first thing that comes to mind about the mix is that you should try this with the rhythm guitar as an acoustic. I think it would sit better, but then, I don't even know what a song is, so take my suggestions with a grain of salt.

Heh! Thanks for the suggestion, Ben. I agree with you. The only reason I didn't record this one with acoustic, is because I have cranky neighbors that live downstairs now. Direct-in guitar was really the only way to go.

Your instrumental was pretty cool. I think I had just heard one too many instrumentals in this particular fight at that point. You just happened to be the unlucky one whose review got my rant. Could have just as easily been any other instrumental, had the order been different.

bzl wrote:Oops, sorry, didn't mean to interrupt this fight with my reviews; I'll come back later.


No, by all means! I think that's what this thread needs MORE of, is reviews!

j$ wrote:Oh and Glenn, the mix is exactly how I wanted it. How else was I gonna parody my favorite 'hippies with effects pedals'?

j$


Like I say, don't listen to me where mix is concerned. If my mixes ever sound good it's because I was lucky that day, or because someone else did the mixing.

ROCK!

Glenn (DR FUNK)
Last edited by GlennCase on Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby fodroy » Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:18 pm

people, there's no reason to compare phunt to lef or anything troll/crap group that's just around here to piss on people.

they're intelligent people (from my experiences with them on the boards) and they are capable of making some pretty interesting noise pieces (see their recent aad).

i wouldn't buy a phunt album if that was an option, but i wouldn't automatically change channels if they came on the radio or something.

in summary, it's stupid to automatically assume that they're trying to piss people off by shitting on piano rolls or whatever. get a life, people.

also, i'm voting for ashok and the phunt family for making a kickass song.
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Postby WeaselSlayer » Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:22 pm

Mostess wrote:
erikb wrote:You are at the very least exaggerating, and at the very worst outright lying when you say that anyone in this thread is being as mean as possible in their reviews.


I believe the words you're looking for are "thin-skinned" and "insecure."


I am those things, but I don't think that's what he's talking about.

And also, I wasn't talking about this thread really, I'm reflecting on the general vibe I've gotten from a lot of reviews of a lot of people over time. Even the new people always have this way of trying to zing the fuck out of people instead of writing a really good review. Anyway, it's not that important and I'm sorry this is taking away from the reviews. Feel free to rebute and then I suggest we give this thread back to the reviewers.
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Postby erik » Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:39 pm

Ahhhhh, I get it. People in this thread were giving decent reviews, and so you thought that it would be a good time to mention that in other threads, people are dicks. It all makes sense now.
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Postby WeaselSlayer » Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:41 pm

Yeah, zing.
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Postby jack » Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:53 pm

blah blah blah blah blah blah.....man, you guys make max look brilliant.

a. henley and the phunt family
you sound like the hari krishna guys I see at the farmers market each wednesday.

beefy
it's weird how much you sound like starfinger with your vocals. i think it's the enunciation. man, you really need a drummer. gets kind of repetitive.

melvin
i shall be released. i liked this. good production. nice singing.

glenn case
the harmonies sound great, but i wish you'd doubled the vocals up through the first verse. i can see dynamically why you didn't, as you bring the high harmonies in through the second verse, which rocks. yeah, very nice.

caravan ray
nice production. i recognize alot of those samples. :) haven't a clue what you're singing or talking about, but you set a nice mood. if this were an instrumental, i might actually vote for it. as it is, i might still vote for it. this is very cool. very cool.

zombie love militia
aren't you the same guys that complained about what constitutes a song?

mostly harmless
it's well produced. the whole song seems to be pretty much built around the same riff, but you add alot of pucerotechnics to keep it dynamic. you guys sing really good together, and honestly, this is really solid and i think you guys work well together.

phunt your friends
i think enough has been said already about this circle jerk.

those meddling kids
it's got a nice groove but it's not making me think title

smalltown mike
pretty good for cock rock. holding my bic aloft and bobbing my mulleted head

frankie and the falangists
hey, it's johnny! what's with the beard? entertaining and well produced. i really like the guitary bridge part and the preceding vocals. this is really good johnny.

charcoal
atom heart mother meets 2112. given the vishnu cycle part of the title, it kind of works for me.

jim tyrrell
haha, i think you've been listening to starfinger lately. just the fact that you can sing that title is impressive. plus i think it's cool you stray from your comfort zone with this. well done. has a bit of a bobby mcferrin feel to it. hey, i still owe you a bottle of 2 buck chuck, and i haven't forgotten, and i bought you another at trader joe's the other day cause i drank the other one i got for you at burning man (but i toasted you at the time!). anyways, i promise you'll get it before christmas!

max the cat
it's not that you can do better, because i know you can do better, and actually, this is fucking brilliant, because it takes arguably the stupidest title of all time, and pokes fun at it, and at all the other dumb ongoing arguments around here. man, this is brilliant dude. right up there with hoblit's "happy machine ankle" as the best interpretation of the dumbest title. i think you just got my vote max.

the dankins
why? give me some connection or give me a break.

faves: glenn, ray, harmless, frankie, jim but i'm throwing my vote to max.
"I've never wished a man dead, but I have read some obituaries with great pleasure." - Mark Twain
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Postby Mogosagatai » Thu Nov 03, 2005 11:20 pm

We're fighting! Go BACK inside!

<b>Jim Tyrrell</b>: Cool idea. The lyrics don’t actually make much sense, but they sound pretty good, anyway. Your rapping voice could be brought a little—it sounds kinda like you’re hiding behind something, with that “radioâ€

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