That's the longest one I've ever seen (RE-TVC Reviews)

Discuss upcoming, current, and previous song fights.
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Post by melvin » Thu Nov 03, 2005 3:07 pm

Thank you Mostess. I'm not yanking your chain when I say that I loved your entry last week. The melody and vocal performance were gorgeous. Hard to explain the voting results.
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Post by blue » Thu Nov 03, 2005 3:18 pm

i can't believe that even after a whole week of people, including JB hisself, explaining why you should not enter two songs, you still did.

after covering the beatles last week, it's like you're just TRYING to earn an Iggy Award.
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Post by erik » Thu Nov 03, 2005 3:30 pm

All that discussion took place after the due date.
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Post by melvin » Thu Nov 03, 2005 3:34 pm

Thank you ErikB.

Also, I did not enter any songs the prior week. You're thinking of someone else.
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Post by blue » Thu Nov 03, 2005 3:39 pm

so we should blame JB?

eeeexcellent.

oh, it was link -vs- music. you can see how i'd get that confused with "melvin."
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Post by erik » Thu Nov 03, 2005 3:44 pm

all you no0bs look alike
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Post by blue » Thu Nov 03, 2005 3:59 pm

hey didn't you used to songfight? :D
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Post by erik » Thu Nov 03, 2005 4:05 pm

awwwwwwbuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurn
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Post by GlennCase » Thu Nov 03, 2005 4:22 pm

DISCLAIMER: The opinions expressed by Glenn Case are not necessarily the views of anyone.

Songs will be rated on a ripped-off, modified somesongs ratings system as follows:

[awful]
[bad]
[okay]
[good]
[great]

So, here we go (in order of appearance):

Smalltown Mike: It would sound better with real drums, but what wouldn't? Not crazy about your voice. This is actually the sort of song with a driving beat that I would normally love. If I played this for friends or family, I would likely get a "What the hell is that?!" from at least one of them. I tend to be a little more sympathetic. I think this is [okay]

Phunt Your Friends: Submissions like this are almost enough reason to have quality screening on this site. If you just threw a bunch of random crap together? Sorry, you didn't make the cut. Try again next week. It's [awful], but you knew that. Congratulations on wasting the time of anyone who listens to the whole track. Be aware that you are not the first annoying songfight group, and I'm sure that you won't be the last either.

Melvin: First impression was that you are a Coldplay fan. As the song goes on, that isn't necessarily true. I like the musicianship and the overall performance. Lyrics seem forced, but that's excusable considering the title. At least you tried to make it work. Overall? this is pretty [good]

Beefy: Singing voice does not cut it for me. Rapping isn't half bad, for what it is. The beat's dynamics never really change, and that is a bad thing. It just doesn't seem like a lot of effort was put into this. It's almost okay, but there's not quite enough in this track to bring it there. Sorry, it's pretty [bad]

Mostly Harmless: Puce's voice is unmistakable. This is a deadly combo of songfight talent here. The first song from this fight that I would consider putting on my podcast. This is what makes this work: Good musicianship, an excellent mix, good singing, and freaking talent. While it's not the best that I have heard from either of you, it is still [great]. Good job, guys!

Bombathon a.k.a. "The Dankins": You are not the first to post a fruity-loops wankfest, and you will not be the last. I wish you would be the last, but I know better. Only thing that saves this from being awful is that it is short, and the nasty-dirty bass sound is sweet. It's one step above awful, it's [bad].

Zombie Love Militia: Sweet beat. I think I recognize Bjam's voice, but can't place the male voice. I am normally not crazy about this sort of track, but this is very well done for what it is. It's not too long, so it stays entertaining enough. I can't see myself listening to it a lot. It's [good], but barely.

Those Meddling Kids: As far as instrumentals go, this is the best one that I have heard in this fight. What is it with all of the instrumentals this week? Did I miss an optional challenge? This would be good videogame music. It's [okay] because it doesn't drag.

Charcoal: An almost 7 minute instrumental?! This is not instrumental-fight, ladies and gentlemen! It's SONGfight! Look at dictionary.com! You get the following:

"song n 1: a short musical composition with words; "a successful musical must have at least three good songs"

WITH WORDS is the key part. *sigh* O.k. Now I will step down from my soapbox, and I will tell you that this is actually pretty cool. There are some nice chord combinations, I particularly like the section that starts at around 4:25 and ends at approximately 5:10. With instrumentals, it is incredibly tough to show any true connection to the title. I will say this much, if you had to make it almost 7 minutes long, at least you made it an [okay] track.

Max the Cat: I seem to remember having heard tracks that I have liked from you. This is not one of them. If this was the first entry of yours I had heard, I would have no desire to check out anything else you have ever done. If you honestly didn't care for the title, maybe you shouldn't have made a track for it. This is pretty [bad].

Ashok Henley and the Phunt Family: I saw the "Phunt" in the title, and feared the worst, based on the other Phunt based entry. As a result, this isn't as bad as I anticipated. Harmonies are a little off, but they work within the sound of this. It's a little long. I don't see myself listening to it ever again. It is a high [bad].

Frankie and the Falangists: Hated the intro. Once the song kicks in, I didn't hate it nearly as much. In fact, I kinda like it. Cool bassline. Is it just me or is the high-hat super tinny? Acatully the whole mix is tinny to the point of being nearly painful on the speakers I am listening to this on. The vocals also seem buried. Not that I am a master of mixing, I know that I'm not. With a better mix, this would be better than [okay].

Caravan Ray: This is a little weird, but the production skill can't be denied. I didn't actually enjoy it that much, but it's VERY well put together, with a fantastic beat. You get a high [okay] from me, and I almost feel guilty for rating it that low.

Glenn Case: This is me. I like the composition. I could have mixed it better. I would have turned the guitars down a notch. I am first to admit that my mixing skills are not skills, they are luck. If they sound good on a given week? I am not sure why. I do not rate my own songs at this point.

Jim Tyrrell: Sorry, Jim... not too crazy about this one. Cute concept, but I don't think it really worked this time. Admittedly the Kick-in at :53 is NICE, and that alone bumps it up to [okay]

MOSTLY HARMLESS gets the vote.
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Post by j$ » Thu Nov 03, 2005 5:14 pm

melvin wrote:Frankie and the Falangists: What is that piercing verby/distortion sound on top of many (most?) of your entries?


So I listened a coupla dozen times to the section between 1.00-1.09 and I can't hear anything ... it may be distortion feeding back off the amplified vox? *shrug* It's not deliberate, beyond liking nasty amplified vox!

And for the record, I am not going for a love / hate thing. I am not going for anything. I just makes it like I hear it. :)

Oh and Glenn, the mix is exactly how I wanted it. How else was I gonna parody my favorite 'hippies with effects pedals'?

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Post by WeaselSlayer » Thu Nov 03, 2005 5:33 pm

I've had it up to here (yeah, you don't even know where) with all this sanctimonious Phunt-bashing. What the fuck, seriously. It's totally fine to dislike something, but to disparage its credibility and to condescend to the creators is something that I cannot stand by. And will not. And good day, sir.
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Post by GlennCase » Thu Nov 03, 2005 5:45 pm

And I stand by my review. It honestly sounds like something that was thrown together with the sole intention of annoying people. That may or may not be the intention, but it comes across that way.

As the saying goes, This isn't SongLove. If you put together something, and I think it sounds like ass? I'm going to call them like I see them.

You can't say that I have bashed them before, because I haven't even listened to any of their tracks before today, but if this week's entry is any indicator? I'm not sure that I want to either. (I probably still will.)

ROCK!

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Post by WeaselSlayer » Thu Nov 03, 2005 5:55 pm

It was more a general comment, they get a heavy amount of muck raked at them. And by all means stand by your review, you shouldn't feel the need to like it just because it's there. But for fuck's sake, why do we keep saying "it's not SongLove" because it is, or it should be. This is a great community, and it breaks me up that we end up getting into these pissing contests when we should be trying to build each other up even if we don't particularly care for the direction everyone goes in. And yeah, sometimes building each other up means saying "I think you could have done thus-and-such" or saying "wow, what were you thinking when you did this?" But please, do it in a way that isn't just aggressive and condescending. Or don't, whatever.
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Post by Mogosagatai » Thu Nov 03, 2005 5:59 pm

'Preciate the sentiment, Luke, but I don't think we don't need much defending. Anyone who's paying close enough <a href="http://songfight.net/forums/viewtopic.php?p=39732#39732">attention</a> knows we're not just fucking around. (course, they might still hate the music, but that's cool).

Glenn and anyone else, for an example of what you might consider non-random non-crap, try out section III, in which Phunt rides JoS's coattails to stardom. If you hate section II, you'll probably also hate section I. However, I assure you that all three are pure genius.
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Post by Bjam » Thu Nov 03, 2005 6:07 pm

I think the deal with Phunt is that they don't make conventional 'songs'. No g&g, no 'here is my verse, here is my chorus, here are my vocals, here is my music' in a nice and happy package. It's more... dispersed. And a lot of people don't view that as songs that they'd listen to. Some don't even view that as music at all. So although what Phunt's doing is considered 'bad' by some people, and sounds like it's just thrown together, you've gotta give some props to someone that does 32 minutes of music, with multiple layers, and types up a big ass thing to explain it all.

So although I personally don't enjoy Phunt's music as much as I do some other Songfighters(and I'm sure they personally don't like my music as much as they do some other Songfighters) just... suck it up. They're doing what they dig. You're doing what you dig. Everyone kiss and makeup and love one another's differences. There's plenty of crap on Songfight, there's plenty of good stuff. Just sift through it.

(PS. I also want world peace.)
Songfighter since back in the day.
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Post by GlennCase » Thu Nov 03, 2005 6:28 pm

WeaselSlayer wrote:It was more a general comment, they get a heavy amount of muck raked at them.


I can't speak for anyone else, but if their other entries sound like this one? I can see why. This is the sort of track that honestly seems to have been designed with the INTENT of irritating people.

WeaselSlayer wrote:And by all means stand by your review, you shouldn't feel the need to like it just because it's there. But for fuck's sake, why do we keep saying "it's not SongLove" because it is, or it should be.


I don't necessarily agree with you on the "It should be SongLove" part. Artists who submit songs to this site should expect to get honest opinions on what people think of it. Sometimes that truth is particularly harsh.

The best present this site ever gave to me was a thicker skin. When friends and family are always being 'polite', they are not generally helping you to improve. It's a wake-up call when people are actually willing to take the time to listen to your song, and say exactly what they think of it. Especially if they don't care for it.

What pisses me off is when we get people making submissions that more or less make a mockery of what this entire site is about: To get your songs heard. Entries like these are NOT songs. If the average person finds this site, and the first thing they hear is some 7 minute noisefest? What are the chances that they are going to stick around?

I have more respect for those who at least SOUND like they are trying to make a good song.

WeaselSlayer wrote:This is a great community, and it breaks me up that we end up getting into these pissing contests when we should be trying to build each other up even if we don't particularly care for the direction everyone goes in.


I agree. I think it's a fantastic community. I've stuck around since July of 2003, and things are not always peachy. It's a community of diverse different tastes, and different upbringings. Toes are bound to get stepped on. Tempers are bound to flare up from time to time. The people who get in these arguments are the people who tend to be the most passionate about songfight.


WeaselSlayer wrote:And yeah, sometimes building each other up means saying "I think you could have done thus-and-such" or saying "wow, what were you thinking when you did this?" But please, do it in a way that isn't just aggressive and condescending. Or don't, whatever.


Again, Can't speak for anyone else here, but the thing that will make me aggressive or condescending every time is when people send in entries that are like "look... we made noise. We don't know how to make music, so we'll just irritate you now."

To each his own. I don't necessarily agree with everything that you had to say, and I don't expect you to agree with anything that I had to say... but you can't be all that bad. You have a John Prine avatar. And John Prine freaking rules. :)

EDIT: I just saw this...

Mogosagatai wrote:Glenn and anyone else, for an example of what you might consider non-random non-crap, try out section III, in which Phunt rides JoS's coattails to stardom. If you hate section II, you'll probably also hate section I. However, I assure you that all three are pure genius.

While section III is an improvement in my opinion, you have still not convinced me that your intent is to do anything but irritate people and get reaction.

Feel free to consider it genius. I don't necessarily agree with you, but that's the beauty of it. We don't have to agree.

That is all.

ROCK!

Glenn (DR FUNK)
Last edited by GlennCase on Thu Nov 03, 2005 6:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by jack » Thu Nov 03, 2005 6:38 pm

Bjam wrote:..........Everyone kiss and makeup and love one another's differences..........


what do you think this is, SongLOVE?

the beautiful thing about Songfight! is there will never be consensus on or about anything, which will always assure the inevitable fight about something.

there's always a fight down at Songfight!
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Post by Mogosagatai » Thu Nov 03, 2005 7:09 pm

GlennCase wrote:While section III is an improvement in my opinion, you have still not convinced me that your intent is to do anything but irritate people and get reaction.


Hahaha, are you serious? I mean, it's long, to be sure, but do you really think we made a classical piano piece just to irritate people? Seems a little... I dunno... out of the way. What with all the key changes and complicated, intertwining melodies and harmonies, and the way all those work together to tell an epic mythological story. I don't think you actually listened to it. But whatever.

For the record, every phuntsong has been made with the full intention to entertain, please, intellectually stimulate, or otherwise positively affect people. We're well aware that many and indeed most people will not like our music, but we're certainly not being intentionally annoying. As for the "Phunt just wants to get a reaction" theory, I'm afraid LEF has already covered just about everything in that genre.
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Post by blue » Thu Nov 03, 2005 7:48 pm

are you really going to say that pt III wasn't one of you sitting in front of a kbd and wanking around for 15 minutes? because i heard a lot of classical song quotes and pure BS in there.

go ahead, show us a scan of the charts. :P

and please don't compare yourselves to the Books. you're not even close. if you WERE close, i'd like your music. i mean, if you made music. and it was close.
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Post by Rone Rivendale » Thu Nov 03, 2005 8:09 pm

Just like with Brimming With Tears, this is just my first impressions after listening to each song once. Later in the week I will do more described reviews. These in the order I heard them with my WMP on shuffle.

Those meddling kids: Instrumentals are good, but only when they make you feel the title of the song they represent (like Jim of Seattle with the Welcome to Windows). I felt nothing. D

Charcoal: See above, but also add WAY too long especially for having no lyrics. Sorry. D-

Ashok Henley and the Phunt Phamily: It makes me feel like I'm sitting around the campfire listening to hippies. Slighty silly, but good. C+

Beefy: I like the rhymes. This song could have been in one of the Ninja Turles movies. It's obvious that I enjoyed this song WAY more than anyone else before me did! B

Mostly Harmless: I laughed irl when you guys did the B-word fake out. Announcing the solos was clever. B-

Phunt Your Friends: Honestly, I didn't like anything about this song. I don't like the number of Instrumentals this time around. And this one was over 8 minutes long. F

Bombathon aka "The Dankins": Like the dance/techno style. This is yet another Instumental but it's short and has a nice beat. This is the only Instrumental that I won't bash. C+

Jim Tyrrel: The background vocals doing the title line are maybe a little too muddled. I like that you used "Brimming With Tears" in this song. That was clever. C

Smalltown Mike: This went a whole different direction than everything else, and that's good. Lyrics are well written. B

Frankie and the Falangists: I like the idea of the song, but the vocals could be clearer. The last 20 seconds of so sounded like Ramstein. C

Max the Cat: I hated the beginning, but once it got to the parts with Zorak(or a soundalike) I enjoyed it. And then when he went away, I went back to hating it. D+

Melvin: Since I am probably going to vote for you on Brimming With Tears, I am DQ'ing you from any consideration in voting here. This is a decent song though, and it's a shining example of being able to put together 2 complete songs in one week's songfight. C+

Caravan Ray: I understand the concept of the song, because of the Vishnu thing. However, the vocals were VERY quiet in some parts. And in general I had a hard time getting into it. C-

Glenn Case: Main singer sounds a little like Weird Al. The song itself is very 70's. I have nothing bad to say about it. B-

Zombie Love Militia: Good storytelling, major bonus points. The beat is good as well. B

The frontrunners for my vote right now are Beefy, Smalltown Mike, and Zombie Love Militia. This is going to be hard.
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Post by Mogosagatai » Thu Nov 03, 2005 8:29 pm

blue wrote:are you really going to say that pt III wasn't one of you sitting in front of a kbd and wanking around for 15 minutes?


Neither of us can play the piano (at least not well). That's all programmed MIDI.

blue wrote:because i heard a lot of classical song quotes


Oh yeah? Like what?

If you say "that one measure from Mozart's overture to <i>Die Entfuhrung der Nuremburg</i>, then... you're right. It is in there, once, from 3:07 to 3:10 (and it's not actually accurate, just close to it). There are also quotes of a Foo Fighters bassline, a Boltoph guitar part, and some Luke Henley vocals.

The rest of it is built <i>almost</i> entirely out of themes from previous phuntsongs. Like, so many of them I lost count.

Any other quotes are entirely accidental, but I'm pretty sure there aren't any.
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Post by erik » Thu Nov 03, 2005 8:44 pm

WeaselSlayer wrote:But for fuck's sake, why do we keep saying "it's not SongLove" because it is, or it should be.


I can't speak for other people, but I say "it's not SongLove"* because I don't want this place to turn into another bullshit messageboard where nothing is listened to with any sort of critical ear. I've been to other places where people just throw praise on anything and everything that people throw up, and ultimately, it makes all comments useless, because there's so much bullshit and niceness painted on what people say that you can't see the actual advice underneath it all. If the prevailing sentiment is "Let's be supportive", it makes it really hard to judge exactly <i>how</i> bad a song is, because below a certain level, people just won't say anything.

A much more useful sentiment to endorse is "Let's be honest", and I think that's the underlying force that drives what people say. And no matter how much some people suck at giving constructive advice, I'd take that any day over people who know how to be constructive, but are afraid to be honest. Screw that.

What sucks about comments is not condescension (which I always feel rears its ugly head when people are trying too hard to be nice, not when people are being rude) or agression, but rather unspecificity. "This sucks, curl up and die" is unspecific, and really just an insult to the the person, not a insult to the music. "This sucks because it sounds like random, unwritten banging of a keyboard" is a good, thoughtful, helpful comment, and one that makes songfight a great awesome place to present your music to the public.

Fuck Songlove.

Fuck it ten feet underground with a tire iron.
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