Friend Flooding and You
- GlennCase
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Friend Flooding and You
Ah, yes. The SongFight friend flood.
Different opinions exist on the subject, but let me tell you about my personal experience on the issue. Perhaps it will prove to be a story of some value.
Rewind to July of 2003. I found out about SongFight through <a href="http://www.frontalot.com">MC Frontalot's</a> website, and his nerdcore hiphop inspired me to use my rap roots to make an entry for the <a href="http://www.songfight.org/songpage.php?k ... bo">"Mumbo Jumbo"</a> fight. I <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sockheads ... 3339">told friends about it</a>, and I won!
Thing is, even when you tell your friends to listen to everyone's song, and vote for the best one? There's a good chance that your friends will try to help you out by voting for your track no matter how good or bad it may be.
So, while there is no rule that says that you can't try to gather votes, In some cases this can potentially create a backlash if people don't believe that your song deserved to win.
Most Songfighters appreciate having more people listen to their music, so by all means, promote the site if you like. If I had the chance to do it all over again, I would have waited to promote Songfight until after the votes had already been tallied for my first fight. I don't consider my <a href="http://www.songfight.org/songpage.php?k ... bo">"Mumbo Jumbo"</a> to be a true victory, the same way that I don't consider <a href="http://www.songfight.org/songpage.php?k ... day">"Dark All Day"</a> to be a victory. With <a href="http://www.songfight.org/songpage.php?k ... day">"Dark All Day"</a>, I failed to mention the whole friend flooding concept to a bandmate, and he told a bunch of friends. We won that fight by a very large margin, and I don't believe it was even CLOSE to being the best song that week.
It's natural to want to win, but I would say that there is a LOT more to Songfight than the vote counts.
No, the first one that felt like a "true" victory was the one I didn't tell any of my friends about: Our entry for the <a href="http://www.songfight.org/songpage.php?k ... lts">"Need Stilts"</a> fight. It is often still referred to as one of the best songs I have had a part in writing.
The idea being that you will probably win the fight without any help from friend's votes if you just try to write a great song.
So, that's the concept of what this "friend flood" business is all about. Feel free to share your own thoughts about the subject in this thread.
ROCK!
Glenn Case
Different opinions exist on the subject, but let me tell you about my personal experience on the issue. Perhaps it will prove to be a story of some value.
Rewind to July of 2003. I found out about SongFight through <a href="http://www.frontalot.com">MC Frontalot's</a> website, and his nerdcore hiphop inspired me to use my rap roots to make an entry for the <a href="http://www.songfight.org/songpage.php?k ... bo">"Mumbo Jumbo"</a> fight. I <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sockheads ... 3339">told friends about it</a>, and I won!
Thing is, even when you tell your friends to listen to everyone's song, and vote for the best one? There's a good chance that your friends will try to help you out by voting for your track no matter how good or bad it may be.
So, while there is no rule that says that you can't try to gather votes, In some cases this can potentially create a backlash if people don't believe that your song deserved to win.
Most Songfighters appreciate having more people listen to their music, so by all means, promote the site if you like. If I had the chance to do it all over again, I would have waited to promote Songfight until after the votes had already been tallied for my first fight. I don't consider my <a href="http://www.songfight.org/songpage.php?k ... bo">"Mumbo Jumbo"</a> to be a true victory, the same way that I don't consider <a href="http://www.songfight.org/songpage.php?k ... day">"Dark All Day"</a> to be a victory. With <a href="http://www.songfight.org/songpage.php?k ... day">"Dark All Day"</a>, I failed to mention the whole friend flooding concept to a bandmate, and he told a bunch of friends. We won that fight by a very large margin, and I don't believe it was even CLOSE to being the best song that week.
It's natural to want to win, but I would say that there is a LOT more to Songfight than the vote counts.
No, the first one that felt like a "true" victory was the one I didn't tell any of my friends about: Our entry for the <a href="http://www.songfight.org/songpage.php?k ... lts">"Need Stilts"</a> fight. It is often still referred to as one of the best songs I have had a part in writing.
The idea being that you will probably win the fight without any help from friend's votes if you just try to write a great song.
So, that's the concept of what this "friend flood" business is all about. Feel free to share your own thoughts about the subject in this thread.
ROCK!
Glenn Case
I like when the fightmasters slip a little barb into the fight summary of a flooded fight.
- GlennCase
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Heh! I admit to having <a href="http://www.songfight.org/songpage.php?k ... laughed</a> at a <a href="http://www.songfight.org/songpage.php?k ... ng">couple </a>of those myself.deshead wrote:I like when the fightmasters slip a little barb into the fight summary of a flooded fight.
Yes, that is also considered to be poor form for sure. I started adopting the idea of voting for my favorite entry that isn't me. On some occasions I may actually like my own song better than any other entry, but then I think about how stupid I would feel if I only got one vote, and that vote was my own.jolly roger wrote:Voting for yourself multiple times is also bad. I did that for my first few entries. At the time I thought that I should have won, and wasn't very happy when I lost. I guess that when people first show up at songfight, they think that their music is the best and deserves to win, so they flood it.
For that reason, I wear my Basket Robbers loss in the <a href="http://www.songfight.org/songpage.php?k ... n">"Cosmic Confirmation"</a> fight like a badge of honor. I got good reviews, but I didn't get a single vote. I feel better about that song than either of the friend flood victories I mentioned above.
- Niveous
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Did Lon flood that fight? I think that was a straight up whipping. This is a good barb example: http://www.songfight.org/songpage.php?key=drivingdeshead wrote:I like when the fightmasters slip a little barb into the fight summary of a flooded fight.
Damn you Glenn for reading my mind.
"I'd like to see 1984 redubbed with this in the soundtrack."- Furrypedro.
NUR EIN!
X-Tokyo
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NUR EIN!
X-Tokyo
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- jeff robertson
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When I said "is it still friend-flooding if I tell my friends to vote for someone else", I meant to explicitly recommend a particular song, by someone other than me.
For example, on my blog I just posted a message telling people how awesome JB's "Plastic Rose" is.
Is this still friend-flooding? It could theoretically impact the votes and cause JB to win, although probably it won't because I really don't have that many friends.
I'm not even in the Plastic Rose fight. If I was, but I still told people to vote for JB because I really thought he kicked my ass, would that be friend-flooding?
Basically, is it "OK" to talk about SongFight outside of SongFight, at all..
For example, on my blog I just posted a message telling people how awesome JB's "Plastic Rose" is.
Is this still friend-flooding? It could theoretically impact the votes and cause JB to win, although probably it won't because I really don't have that many friends.
I'm not even in the Plastic Rose fight. If I was, but I still told people to vote for JB because I really thought he kicked my ass, would that be friend-flooding?
Basically, is it "OK" to talk about SongFight outside of SongFight, at all..
- jeff robertson
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Words of wisdom. This should be in the FAQ.GlennCase wrote:I started adopting the idea of voting for my favorite entry that isn't me. On some occasions I may actually like my own song better than any other entry, but then I think about how stupid I would feel if I only got one vote, and that vote was my own.
- GlennCase
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Wow, good question!jeff robertson wrote:When I said "is it still friend-flooding if I tell my friends to vote for someone else", I meant to explicitly recommend a particular song, by someone other than me.
For example, on my blog I just posted a message telling people how awesome JB's "Plastic Rose" is.
Is this still friend-flooding? It could theoretically impact the votes and cause JB to win, although probably it won't because I really don't have that many friends.
I'm not even in the Plastic Rose fight. If I was, but I still told people to vote for JB because I really thought he kicked my ass, would that be friend-flooding?
Basically, is it "OK" to talk about SongFight outside of SongFight, at all..
This is strictly my opinion, but I don't see as much of an issue with the scneario that you describe, and here's why:
I see a friend flood as an artist getting an unfair voting advantage that benefits their own vote count.
In both of your cases, you are describing a scenario where you genuinely REALLY liked a song, and you wanted people to hear it.
Now, granted, it might be better form to introduce people to this amazing song AFTER the votes have already been counted and a winner announced, because it might affect the vote count. Just like friend flooding in and of itself, it's a matter of using your own judgement.
As far as I am concerned, promoting Songfight is NEVER a bad thing. The timing in which you do so is really just up to your own discretion.
ROCK!
Glenn Case
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While travelling to and from Santa Cruz - transiting drunkly through various airport lounges with computer facilities, I think I managed to lodge about 3 or 4 seperate votes for my "Rhymes With Lucia" - and it finished up with a grand total of 6.GlennCase wrote:Yes, that is also considered to be poor form for sure.jolly roger wrote:Voting for yourself multiple times is also bad.
I knew it could never be traced - because each vote was being placed in a different city and/or country. A very cunning plan indeed and I would have gotten away with it if I had have done it about 10 more times.
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- fluffy
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jeff robertson wrote:Words of wisdom. This should be in the FAQ.GlennCase wrote:I started adopting the idea of voting for my favorite entry that isn't me. On some occasions I may actually like my own song better than any other entry, but then I think about how stupid I would feel if I only got one vote, and that vote was my own.
It's specifically about multiple self-votes but friendfloods are basically the same thing.the faq wrote: We really wish you wouldn't. Voting multiple times doesn't really get you anything does it? There's no prize or anything after all, and what satisfaction is there in bragging rights if you cheated to get them?
- Paco Del Stinko
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uh, how do you figure that?fluffy wrote:jeff robertson wrote:Words of wisdom. This should be in the FAQ.GlennCase wrote:I started adopting the idea of voting for my favorite entry that isn't me. On some occasions I may actually like my own song better than any other entry, but then I think about how stupid I would feel if I only got one vote, and that vote was my own.It's specifically about multiple self-votes but friendfloods are basically the same thing.the faq wrote: We really wish you wouldn't. Voting multiple times doesn't really get you anything does it? There's no prize or anything after all, and what satisfaction is there in bragging rights if you cheated to get them?
in one case, you are controlling the vote yourself, by voting repeatedly, while in the other you are not.
just because you solicit a vote, or ask someone to vote for you, it doesn't mean they will, and you have no control over that.
cheating and pimping are 2 distinctly different things.
Hi!
- fluffy
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I just don't see what I said that I have to admit being wrong about.
I do admit to being wrong all the damn time, when it's called for. I usually prefer to just not talk out my ass to begin with. Do you have any particular threads in mind where I was stubbornly refusing to admit to be wrong? The only one I can think of is that famous thread regarding video formats which wasn't that myself or the other were wrong, we were just debating completely different points. Which seems to be EXACTLY the issue here, too.
This conversation is about friend flooding, which is to say, urging friends to flood your vote. Which has the same end result as you personally putting in bogus votes. That is ALL I am saying, and why I felt that the FAQ entry regarding multiple self-votes still applies.
That is completely orthogonal to non-friend-flooders who just listen to a few songs and vote for their favorite of that set, which isn't a problem anyway because as long as it's a random selection of the songs then statistically-speaking it all averages out. (Of course if people listen via "stream all" they get it in the same order and so it's biased towards people who are alphabetically-lower.) But again, that's an entirely different issue.
Anyway, like I said, whatever. I'm done here.
I do admit to being wrong all the damn time, when it's called for. I usually prefer to just not talk out my ass to begin with. Do you have any particular threads in mind where I was stubbornly refusing to admit to be wrong? The only one I can think of is that famous thread regarding video formats which wasn't that myself or the other were wrong, we were just debating completely different points. Which seems to be EXACTLY the issue here, too.
This conversation is about friend flooding, which is to say, urging friends to flood your vote. Which has the same end result as you personally putting in bogus votes. That is ALL I am saying, and why I felt that the FAQ entry regarding multiple self-votes still applies.
That is completely orthogonal to non-friend-flooders who just listen to a few songs and vote for their favorite of that set, which isn't a problem anyway because as long as it's a random selection of the songs then statistically-speaking it all averages out. (Of course if people listen via "stream all" they get it in the same order and so it's biased towards people who are alphabetically-lower.) But again, that's an entirely different issue.
Anyway, like I said, whatever. I'm done here.
LERN2PROXIECaravan Ray wrote: While travelling to and from Santa Cruz - transiting drunkly through various airport lounges with computer facilities, I think I managed to lodge about 3 or 4 seperate votes for my "Rhymes With Lucia" - and it finished up with a grand total of 6.
I knew it could never be traced - because each vote was being placed in a different city and/or country. A very cunning plan indeed and I would have gotten away with it if I had have done it about 10 more times.