Where your rating is (Come Down reviews)

[JonPorobil]

They say familiarity breeds contempt, but in my experience it erodes it.

As John|m gets more familiar with the ones who weren't here last time he was a regular (which is most of you), he might be more inclined to clemency, or at least more personalized reviews tailored to acknowledge each regular artist's personal strengths, weaknesses, and improved points based on what he knows of that artist's music from past fights.

Similarly, if John|m posts a few more sets of reviews, and you continue to disagree with them, I'm sure you'll simply stop caring about what he has to say. We each take what we can from criticisms of our songs. If we're smart, we discard the stuff we don't find useful and don't let it bother us. I wish more people here remembered reviews by Blue Lang, or (heavens!) drew. They made me and John|m look like effeminate dance teachers in spandex onesies.

So.

That said, I think this week's fight was, overall, a bit weaker than average. That's alright; it happens sometimes. There's good fights and bad fights. It's not very fair of John|m to come back and judge the entire state of the community based on a single fight, though. Even if that fight does have 35 songs.

In the end, I voted for Andrew Reist, Grass Stained, Jonathan Mann, and Who Fly. Good job, guys!

See y'all next week.

edit: Anyone notice the front page lately?

[Märk]

Doctor Worm: Sounds exactly like the shite which would make me change to another station on the radio. You accused Reist of sounding generic? Hilarious!

More reviews to come.

[Billy's Little Trip]

I was a classically trained percussionist

[reve]

Chthonic Chthock - I already gave a brief review in IRC, comparing this (favorably) to Polysics, but to expand: This is quite good. Your vocals are good, particularly for this genre. This entire piece is a great execution of its genre. I just wish there was a little more bass presence, but I don't know if that's a songwriting or mix complaint. You even have the courtesy and insight to end the song before it has a chance of becoming stale. I apologize for not having too much to say critically or analytically about your piece (uh... the snare tone is a little harsh? seriously, I'm grasping at straws here), but there's not much to correct. Well done.

Hey, thanks for drawing this comparison to us. I'd never heard them before, and so I must thank you for introducing me to the awesomeness that is Polysics.

[john m]

I don't care if you guys love or hate my songs. They could be your favorites, good, passable, poor, awful, or the single worst songs you've ever heard in your life. I take everything evenly; everyone has their tastes. Like I said, I write songs that I like to hear, and regardless of whether you're judging my song on its own merits or based on what you think of me as a person after one post, everyone has different tastes, so my song won't please everyone. It is a pretty childish to review someone's song based on their review of your song, though, and that's something I've noticed for years. The songfight community has long been home to a wide variety of musical styles, and everyone deserves unedited input on their song from everyone who hears it. None of you make exactly the same kind of music as me, so I want to know what a metal artist thinks about my shitty solos, or what a solo singer/songwriter thinks about my shitty lyrics and vocals. Quit fucking holding back. Quit sugar-coating reviews. You're not helping anyone. I grew to where I am through criticism, HARSH criticism that (I am the first to admit) hurt me very badly at the time. I know what it's like to be a young musician trying as hard as I can, thinking I've done better than ever before, only to get absolutely torn apart in reviews for not being able to sing for shit. I'll even volunteer the evidence for you:

Red Robot
Snow Globe
Floating Bridge

Those are FUCKING AWFUL! Horrible. They have absolutely no musical merit whatsoever! So why, when people submit songs this bad, are people so intent on finding anything positive to say about them? People called my early songs shit, because they were shit, and I stopped making songs like that. Think whatever you may about my musical style, but you're a liar if you say that my Get a Life isn't better than any of those songs. I evolved that much because Frank and John and Jeff (especially Jeff) and Damian and Hoblit and Chris (PfM) and blue and drew and so on and so on were honest. They weren't "mean," but they certainly never held my hand. They were honest, and I owe them for and am thankful to them for every single fucking fiber of songwriting talent that I have.

I'm the first person to tell you what I feel I've done wrong in my song. If anyone knows that my "Please Don't Call Me Ken" blatantly ripped off Matthew Good Band's "Middle Class Gangsters" and the Pillows' "Strange Chameleon," it's because I fucking told them, because I'm honest about music. I want you to be honest, also. Critical analysis is the key to improvement. Again, is that defined as being mean? No. It's also not defined as being overly nice about a song that doesn't deserve it. It means being honest at all costs.

Mark, I know you don't like me, so I'm completely unsurprised you posted like that. That's fine! As long as you're being honest, rip the fucking shit out of me. Say my lyrics make no sense, my vocals are weak, my lead guitar skills are nowhere near where they should be for a song of this style, my basslines vary between boring and masturbatory. I may or may not care for your music (I actually like most of what I've heard, though I haven't heard nearly enough to be a fair judge of you as a whole), but I know enough to know that you're a far better guitarist than I am. If you think I'm fucking terrible, I want you tell me. If deetak, as a more orchestrally-minded composer (seemingly; I don't mean to typecast, I know nothing about him), thinks my songs are too straightforward and lack instrumental complexity, he should tell me. Sorry, jackfrost; I see you've been a forum member for a couple years, but I haven't quite been active enough to know who you are... but you're holding back! You must think my song is shit for a reason, right? Tell me!

I certainly don't think everyone here is making music with the ultimate goal of being famous, but I can't imagine anyone is making music without wanting to improve. Why hold back? That's what I'm saying is wrong with things "these days." I'm not throwing around terms like "old days" or "used to be" to stroke my ego just for being old school. Being old school doesn't mean shit for my ability or knowledge. It means I have a different perspective on what songfight means, and its current state is far more reserved about reviewing than it was. I don't say "things should be like they were" to show off that I've been here for so long; I say it because more people improved more often back then, and because I want all of you to improve, too.

If I didn't care about songfight or about any of you, I would fuck off and do my shit my own way without ever visiting these forums again. I stay here because songfight means the world to me. I've never hid the fact that my ultimate goal is to be a rock star, or that I would promote songfight like fucking crazy if I did manage to succeed in my music career. I want songfight to be as amazing an evolutionary tool for all of you as it was for me. If that means I'm the fucking songfight supervillain like blue and drew before me, whatever, but as long as I'm writing reviews, I'm going to honest with you because that's fucking fair to you. If you hate me after a negative review, fine. Sorry for hurting your feelings. At least listen to my point of view, because for every person like me who will actually take the time to write out what I feel about your song, there are hundreds who will turn your shit off and never look back. I didn't do that. I took a couple hours and seriously gave every one of your songs a chance, and whether I came away liking yours or not, I showed some fucking balls and told you exactly how I felt.

I'll reiterate it, because it bears repeating: If I hurt your feelings with my reviews, sorry. I'm not reviewing you as a person, I promise. I would probably love most of you as people. Songfight is one of the most important things ever to enter my life, and given my perspective on it, it fucking breaks my heart to see the way it is now. I know that all of you have a different perspective on songfight, and most of you are probably satisfied with the way it is, and I respect that you comparatively new folks could look at me trying to change things and think I'm an asshole. I only mean well by it. I want it back the old way so that those same comparatively new songfighters can experience the same incredible, thriving community of driven, ambitious musicians that I found years ago, where everyone is actively concerned about improving and helping each other improve, and where everyone shares the fruits of that ambition together.

[Ross]

Gotta love the new logo.

It's still song fight john. It's just review love.

[Märk]

Mark, I know you don't like me, so I'm completely unsurprised you posted like that.

No, I don't like or dislike you at all. Really, you're quite uninteresting, and you escape my attention completely. What I don't like is your conceited (and unwarranted) attitude about the whole thing. You're not a rock star. Stop acting like one.

I do, however, agree with your stance on honesty, and I've always tried to be as honest as possible with reviews, etc. There is a difference between being honest and being a douchebag though.

[adam b]

[quote="Märk You're not a rock star. Stop acting like one.

I do, however, agree with your stance on honesty, and I've always tried to be as honest as possible with reviews, etc. There is a difference between being honest and being a douchebag though.[/quote]

heh heh heh.... I love the fact that at the end of the day, I've got a decent band to go back to where I can play guitar like a maniac.

To John: Thanks for the review, what I submitted was done in a few takes for each track with minimal effort. I don't have any musical training but I'll agree with you that the chord progression was shit, it felt akward to put any guitar or vocal notes over. The vocals were shocking even by my standards - I can't sing, but I can hold a tune reasonably well if I practise it enough. In this case I didn't even take the time to make a tune, and wasn't trying to sing as there were others in the house. The lyrics were definitely akward for me, particularly as I tailor my own to my personal sense of timing within a song. I've made quite a few recordings of a decent standard that haven't seen the light of day, yet I submitted this one, just to see what people say, and I appreciate your honesty. As mentioned above, I have the luxury of going from random-guy-who-posted-crap-on-songfight to a reasonably talented guitarist, so I have no problem being ripped into for posting something that means nothing to me. The one thing that has hit home is that I single-handedly brought down the standard for this fight, and for that I apologise.

However, looking at some of the other reviews I'll agree that you can be a little pretentious, and it would be best to not try to pass off subjective criticisms as objective.

[jast]

This thread -- 11/15
C:2 (the impression of an actual discussion is close to realistic), L:2 (I don't care for the defensiveness; the shredding comments are a nice touch). F:3 (I love the energy in this one. Step up the flames!), P:2 (some of the posts feel a bit jumbled and rushed out; others are much more powerful and emotionally convincing), M:2 (formatting and spelling are okay, all in all, but not brilliant)

[Teplin]

This thread -- 11/15
C:2 (the impression of an actual discussion is close to realistic), L:2 (I don't care for the defensiveness; the shredding comments are a nice touch). F:3 (I love the energy in this one. Step up the flames!), P:2 (some of the posts feel a bit jumbled and rushed out; others are much more powerful and emotionally convincing), M:2 (formatting and spelling are okay, all in all, but not brilliant)

So.... not a vote?

[MisterQuoons]

Overall, I'm pretty disappointed that songfight has fallen this far. There were some decent entries, but they were mostly "good for songfight" entries rather than songs I will keep on my hard drive and listen to amid signed artists. It is not impossible to make such songs. Frankie, JB, add, Front, DT, Glenn, sos, State Shirt, Ken, #... many, many artists before all of you have made great songs (within a week or less) that stand alone as fantastic. This obviously has been lost somewhere along the way. Please get it back.

I don't do the multiple vote shit. This is songfight. I've always voted for the single best song in a fight (of which there is always exactly one), regardless of whose it was. So, it is with complete objectivity and after full critical analysis that I... find no other song better than my own, by a considerable margin.

hahaha, this is awesome. If you don't like criticism, play your songs for your parents instead of a community of musicians. Or, you know, get better.

Wow, so what you're saying, basically, is that you're pretty much a complete tool, then?

I was a classically trained percussionist, turned jazz quartet drummer, turned self-taught rocker.

...turned condescending gimp on the internet. For all your "talent", it seems like you must be doing something wrong, seeing as how you're here alongside the rest of us. My education? Uh, I took a semester-long class on basic music theory and dropped out, and I'm on the same website as you. What does that tell you?

Sir, you are the very essence of all that is peenwhackery. Your very face is a festering cesspool of dead and diseased poon-swaggering butterchubs dialects. I implore you to poop in your hand, rub it around on your face, and then implore the ghost of the late, great Charles Cack to pour Ajax household cleaner all over your tender scalp and whip you with a piece of blue extension cord. And when your rotting corpse is finally buried beneath over 9000 tons of hot wet cack in an undisclosed location in the Philippines, I will personally come and leave a boom box to play my Flappy Gunderson version of Cryptic Comment, on repeat, for all eternity. Sweet sassy molassy, I may have had just one beer too many, but fuck it.

To cut a long story short, you suck, and I hate you.

[TheTungstenSheik]

Tungsten Chic - I only review serious entries.

Fair enough. You don't, after all, owe me a review. No one on SongFight pays to be here, no one had to prove any qualifications, no one has any direct obligations. But by that same token, I don't owe you what you consider a "good" or "serious" song. I don't want to pick a fight here; I understand your position, and I can tell you've got a lot of emotional investment in your idea of what SongFight really is. But whatever else it may be, SF is open to the public - free for all. I didn't submit my song this week thinking it was going to make me popular, or even tolerated. I submitted it because it amused me, and it amused my friends. I know it isn't perfect, and frankly I would question the judgment of any record label willing to pay me money for it. But I haven't reached a point musically where I expect that. That said, it isn't as though I put no thought whatsoever into it. I know that my submitting a song because it's fun isn't what you want out of this site, and that's fine. Maybe somewhere out there, there is a competition where only the serious need apply - where you can't even get in if you make the kind of sounds I do. I wouldn't know, I haven't looked for one. But based on the fact that I can submit whatever song I like, whether or not anyone is going to want to listen to it, I would suggest that you cannot reasonably insist that the SF community behave as though it were otherwise.

As far as sugar-coating reviews is concerned, I'm willing to guess the ones I wrote are not your cup of tea. I wasn't especially harsh. Maybe that's not as helpful to the writers as a more grounded, critical assessment of their work would be. I have gained some idea, though, how hard it is to put together a song, and it is my preference to see what I consider merit where I can. I'm not telling you to tone down your reviews, but again, no one is obligated to be a harsh critic.

I'm okay with being a joke to you. Your opinions and mine differ, and I won't be crushed if you don't like me. But I don't appreciate your implying that I am not welcome here. Learning to write a good song is a process, and I'm willing to bet that if someone had told you, when you were writing songs you now look back on as terrible, that SF was better before people like you came along, you'd have told them the same. If I am to be run out of town, it is SongFight's proprietors who must do the expelling. Until they do, I'm afraid your stuck with this "shit".

[jackfrost]

jackfrost; I see you've been a forum member for a couple years, but I haven't quite been active enough to know who you are... but you're holding back! You must think my song is shit for a reason, right? Tell me!

i thought i did. here it is again.

personally, i thought your song was shit. there was no hook, the vocals were off key from the start, the picked out guitar part was out of time in parts, and the mix makes the whole thing sound like a computer having an abortion. pretentious nonsense. the first time i heard it, i actually laughed out loud at how over-produced and cheesy it was.

all this "back in the day" shit is such a cop out. as a "classically trained" scientist, i recommend you read up on the second fucking law of thermodynamics. everything is constantly changing. "back in the day" does not exist as some kind of constant, just a trend that you happened to experience. personally, i'm glad blue doesn't review here anymore. i used to think he had a good point about some things but last year i heard some of his solo stuff on FAWM and realized that when he's not submitting with his band he is just as amateurish and shitty sounding as anyone. that made me laugh my ass off.

[adamadamant]

Some reviews, probably not as good as reviews used to be however.

chtonicthock - vote

Great stuff, a bit Franz Ferdinand which I like, I think its the time change.

Ross Durand

Good instrumentation and vocals. The tune is fine but the lyrics completely turn me off.

Tungsten Chic

After reading john m's thoughts I assumed this was one of the noisey non-songs. Turns out to be a delightful if slightly uncomfortable midi extravaganza. Liked it the first time but I have trouble listening to it as its quite creepy.

Berkely Social Scene

The production lets it down a bit, not very punchy. The actual song, some nice bits but hard to love. I think the vocals need to be more, something to grab the listener and convince them. The further through I get the more I like the song and the more I wish the vocals had more excitement to them.

Embers of Autumn

Synths etc are interesting, if not very tuneful. The vocals are just not on the mark. Vocals area always so prominent that it brings the song down a lot when they are off. I like the heavy sections with big drums and no singing, the backing could easily grow on me.

Ford's Theater Disaster

The bits are all quite simple, but the progressions are nice, effective. The guitar in my left ear sounds a bit off, as do the vocals, though the shoutyness makes that usually ok. Quite ok really but not my cup of tea, the energy is brilliant.

Steve Durand

Lovely feeling to the whole song, interesting and different from everything else this week. Well executed too, though I'm kind of split on the vocal melody, is the flatness nice or does it just make it hard to listen to? Overall I like it for the confidence and style.

Signboy - vote

The better of the two disco monkey songs. Good stuff, I think you captured the disco spirit perfectly. The vocoder (?) makes the vocals weak in the chorus, the idea is nice but it needs something more weighty, bassy. I love the guitar in the bridge too.

Andrew Reist - vote

Nice and solid, enjoyable throughout, good execution all over. The song is well composed and I like all the parts, I feel like i want a big finish in the last chorus, more oomph, but I like it still.

Clifton Lee Johnston

It's really ok, does nothing wrong but unfortunately doesn't do too much. It would be nice to hear a fuller arrangement, but I given the circumstances it's a fine achievement.

Jonathan Mann - vote

The vocals sound quite bored throughout. It's a lovely little song, composition and arrangement is pretty exemplary. I think it's the vocals wich are stopping me really loving the track. Also the 'sound of a watched pot boiling' is a lame lyric.

Humboat - vote

Fun and well performed. The sounds all sound just like I would want them to. I think it would be nice if it grew a bit, more instruments, but it works simply so perhaps not.

Rone Rivendale

I like the plinky bit but everything else is too noisy and lacks tune.

Chadderandom Abyss

Arty or just poop? I didn't like it.

Big Crouton

Big and confident. I appreciate it but I'm not sure I like it that much. I feel like you have done everything you could have wanted and done it well, it's just too rock for me.

Jan Kruger - vote

Jolly and that but what's it all about. Sounds like a lot of words and the tempo is too slow. Bit boring, though on the plus side it has several good parts and is well executed.

Quimby

Really nice voice, simple but pleasant construction, seamless execution. Unfortunately another set of lyrics about Christianity is putting me off. 'Mr Jesus'? I'm not sure where to start or even if I could properly express how and why I dislike that.

Maybe more to come...

Also thanks for all the reviews, and the patience. I'm not sure if I regret bringing M the T out, some of you seemed to like it, I generally agree it was rushed but contained some nice ideas. The other one I was more or less happy with, which again seems to be reflected in the reviews. I'm not sure what to do about the drums, but I'll think more about them next time.

[jast]

Jan Kruger - vote
Jolly and that but what's it all about. Sounds like a lot of words and the tempo is too slow. Bit boring, though on the plus side it has several good parts and is well executed.

That's not exactly the kind of review I would have associated with a vote. But whatever, thanks for reviewing! To the others who have reviewed, too, of course.

[Henrietta]

Unfortunately another set of lyrics about Christianity is putting me off. 'Mr Jesus'? I'm not sure where to start or even if I could properly express how and why I dislike that.

Whoa, it was not my intention to have this be a Christian song. Personally, I'm an agnostic. The subject (me) is questioning the efficacy of a prayer, and prayer is a religious idea, so I understand the confusion. My lyrics are only meant to express that I miss the lost soul of my friend. If there was something I could do to get her back here, I'd do it.

[adamadamant]

Sorry my reviews were not all entirely well thought out.

@ Jan - I was writing the review as I listened (not the first listen mind) and I was kind of writing what occurred to me. By the end of the song though I decided it was worth a vote because it was very solid and had a certain amount of charm despite me not liking everything about it.

@Henrietta - Sorry that was a little rude of me. I did think that it probably wasn't a pro Christian song, and either way that's not anything I have a problem with. I just tend to dislike songs which carry any religious message, I usually find them, if they're saying I should have some kind of faith, patronising or, if they're saying I shouldn't, childish. Too often songs involving religion are trying to preach one side of the argument and being from a background that doesn't have such a focus on Christianity (i.e. not America I suspect) I have no interest in it. Not that I examined the lyrics to your song, they could have been a fresh and startling perspective on the God/no God thing, but 'Mr Jesus' made me guess they didn't. Also I'd like to make clear that this and that were comments made with relatively little consideration so they're unlikely to be right, fair or coherent.

[jast]

You don't have to apologize or anything. I appreciate the review no matter if you vote for me or not.

[Reist]

I wish more people here remembered reviews by Blue Lang

Haha, my old peppermint patty song got reviewed by him back when I couldn't handle negative reviews. I almost left SF for good. But in hindsight, I'm glad I got the review, because afterwards I focused on shorter songs with a more poppy hook as opposed to draggy one-chord wannabe metal songs.

ps - I'm assuming when you say Blue Lang you are referring to who I know as Blue on the boards. If not, I guess I'm an idiot. Oh, and thanks for the vote, man.

pps - love the new logo, guys.

[Henrietta]

if they're saying I should have some kind of faith, patronising or, if they're saying I shouldn't, childish.

I hear that! One time I was at an open mic, and a gal sang about how we were all destroying the earth and we'll be sorry and our children's children will be sorry for what we've done, so we better repent or else. It's wasn't her level of environmentalism, but her level of self-righteousness that was grating. Self-righteousness can't help but smack of "you're wrong-eousness", which doesn't exact charm people towards her way of thinking.

[ujnhunter]

Polysics

Hey, thanks for drawing this comparison to us. I'd never heard them before, and so I must thank you for introducing me to the awesomeness that is Polysics.

Heh, those were my exact thoughts when john|m told me about them... "Thanks for introducing me!"

[rone rivendale]

Rone Rivendale - arghkjahfkjh FUCKING LOUD HORRIBLE SOUND EFFECT THANK YOU. Wait, the same lyrics as another bad song? Why? This is loud and bad and loud.

I made a sarcastic comment about never getting a helpful review but damn dude, at least pay attention enough to know that I wrote the lyrics and the OTHER song copied me. At least ACT like you are an intelligent being before posting words on a forum that other ppl are going to read.

Thank you to everyone else who reviewed for this fight. Overall I'm pretty encouraged. I'm not in for the next fight but I'll keep plugging away and put out something kewl for the next NEXT one.