Occupies the Place of a Review Thread (Occupy reviews)

[RangerDenni]

I do not understand your review. Can you please clarify? Was it terrible?

[nyjm]

So, it never fails that minutes after the submission deadline I get a fore-head slapping moment for a better arrangement.

If I lead with the good stuff (that is, the cool slide guitar and swelling chorus) and cut the weak stuff (the third "verse"), it comes out hella better:

http://noahmclaughlin.bandcamp.com/trac ... y-my-heart

(There's no way to embed BandCamp's player in the forums, is there?)

[Pigfarmer Jr]

[quote="Farr Flungg Potatoes"
pigfarmer jr - songs with cello make me want to reflect on things
[/quote]

Should I buy you a mirror?

[*]Occupy PigFramer: Guy and guitar OF MY NIGHTMARES.

I don't think I could be any happier with a review than I am right now. Thank you. (seriously)

[JonPorobil]

[*]Occupy Jon Eric: I like where your vocals are going, but the message causes me to tune out immediately.

Can't argue with that.

Good to see you (and sonofsupercar!) back again, blue! I can't wait to hear your track for this fight!

[JonPorobil]

Egads. C.Layne? State Shirt? Al Gore Band? (that is you, right Dan?) sonofcupercar? In addition to the usual heavy hitters like Paco, Ross, King Arthur, and BSS?

Good Lord. I haven't listened to a single song other than my own yet, and I already feel able to declare that this is the best fight ever.

[king_arthur]

King Arthur wins again, with the simple concept of providing something that we can actually use.

King Arthur is happy to see some other people involved in the cover art process, though! Hope y'all continue to contribute! Learn and grow. If it was 100% obvious, anybody could do it

As I mentioned in another post, there is a "submit cover art" process, just PM fightmaster to get a login and password for that process. The big advantage of that process is that it lets everybody know when somebody submits artwork, so those of us who grind something out the night before know we don't have to. See the "Submit Cover Art" and "Art Archive" links on the front page.

I definitely have my own "style" of cover art, and it would be great to have some variety from week to week.

Charles (KA)

[wickedcripple]

Wish i could take a vote back .. My mistake for not listening to every one first! LOL I really like the two i picked .. BUT Sportswriters "Occupy my Heart" is very well written. Props guys!!

[sportswriters]

Like I said last week I'm not a patient person. Mostly I listen to music when I'm driving, off my iPhone. If a song bugs me or bores me, I instantly start looking for a dealbreaker as an excuse to bail and skip to the next one. Frankly, I can usually find it. I guess I miss some great music like this -- it took me forever before I had the patience to listen to Modest Mouse, Magnetic Fields and a bunch of other people. So if I bail on you you're in good company. It's me, not you, I guess. Besides, the people I voted for last week came DEAD DOG LAST so think of me as the kiss of death.

I put a * on the ones I liked.

AL GORE BAND
Almost a dealbreaker with the comedy opening. Rest marginally interesing but borders too close to a novelty tune for me. Made it all the way through, just.

BERKELY SOCIAL SCENE
Droning vocal with a lazy verse melody that just follows the chords. Chorus is much better. It's all a bit sloppy and production is boxy. Can't hit the high notes at 2'00 - painful. Only sticking around for the chorus. Okay, there's a bridge, good. Solo has some energy but totally generic. Nice backing vox at 3.15. Well constructed song. Oh, that bloody solo guitar again. Made it all the way through.

BILLY & THE PSYCHOTICS
Woolly, overcompressed piano intro drowning out the singer. Wow now she's totally buried when the band comes in. Drums well recorded, production's pretty good. Shaker! Crying out for a psychedelic mixolydian guitar in the chorus. That piano sucks so hard though. Terrible EQ. Now the bass is clipping. Now it's sort of not going anywhere, some weird synth brass not helping. Overall mix is WAY too busy and poor singer needs +3dB at least.

C.LAYNE
Okay, this sounds like it was recorded this century. Good. Getting the feeling there's not going to be a chorus. There's a bunch of distortion in here that is probably deliberate but sounds accidental. Bass is way too hot for me. Eh, now it's starting to bore me. That bass line is getting super old. That chunky guitar is kind of fun but not sure it really works in this song. Another muddy, muddy production. EQ, friends, EQ.

DEALIN' DOUG
Oh, this has novelty written all over it. Forget it. Bailed at 0'55".

DIRGE & SARAH
Another muddy track. Drums floating off somewhere. Guitar a mass of middle. The other one with the leslie is OK. Another meandering vocal melody that follows the chords. There's a nice descending little sequence in there. Thought it was going to lift off with those big chords but didn't go anyway. Woolly distorted guitar sounds horrible. EQ guys! Solo is guitar store wank. Bored now. Fortunately only 13s left. Just ends. I am not sad.

DJ RANGER DEN
Oh, another woolly piano. Maybe deliberate? At least I can hear the singer. Girl can sing but don't cram so many freakin' words into her mouth. Lyrics are terrible, poor girl. Okay, so bored. Bailing at 1'50".

DON'T REPLY
Glitchy intro. This better get better fast. It doesn't. Bailed at 0'42".

ELEPHANT FINGER et al
VL-1 gets cut a big piece of slack from me. I had one when I was a teenager! Is there any particular reason this in French? I hope not. Okay *drums fingers* *looks at clock* that was fun for a while but we're done here. Bailed at 2'00". And yeah, novelty song.

JON ERIC
Another piano! Decent EQ but playing's kind of sloppy. It's got a kind of seventies vibe. Lyrics are seriously dodgy. "How it pains me!" Really? Has anyone said that since Victoria was on the throne? Fake passion in chorus. Singer knows a higher truth, apparently. Pity I'm not listening. Bailed at 1'07".

KING ARTHUR
Love the Isley Brothers' guitar intro. Wait, what the FUCK is that at 0'21"? Sounds like someone is soundchecking a drumkit in the background. I'm pretty sure that's not intentional. Did you listen to this before you submitted it? Soul chop guitar has that muddy muddy thing going on again. EEE QQQQ AND COMPRESSION! Please! Strings are aiming in the right direction but lost. Lyrical subject matter is not my cup of thrills. Oh now the Isley Brothers' guitar has gone all cardboard too. Bailing at 0'57. Seemed longer somehow..

CHARLIE OH
At least this gets right to it. All going swimmingly until the vocal. Yo! Try not rapping through your nose! Managed to last all of nineteen seconds before mentioning 'bitches'. Dealbreaker. Next.

METALUNA
Oh, dear God. It's like the worst bits of Genesis played underwater, badly. Bailed at 0'25".

MONKEY TOUCHERS
Professional. Help.

NOAH MCLAUGHLIN
Whoah, boomy acoustic. Point the mic away from the soundhole and cut 250Hz or so. Slide guitar is sour and has some weird ass echo on it. Possibly the laziest piano part of all time. No vocal melody that I can detect, pretty much a monotone. Guitar solo at 2'08 has the right instincts but BUDDY WHEN YOU BEND, MAKE SURE YOU HIT THE NOTE YOU'RE GOING FOR NOT THE ONE A QUARTERTONE BELOW IT. OK, done here. Out at 1'27". Sorry, kind of liked this in a way.

PACO DEL STINKO
OK, novelty song. Bailed at 0'13".

*PANACOTTA ARMY
Now we're talking. Already this is the best track by far. Lazy rhyme of 'heart/apart', could do better, see me afterwards. Well produced and well played. Nice percussion at 1'08. Piano fits nicely. Love the little stops. Bridge is sweet and simple. Vocal is warm and relaxed. Slight ?London accent reminds me of Noel Harrison's Windmills of Your Mind, in a good way. Hey, and it finished before I wanted it to! This gets my vote.

PIGFARMER JR
I hope these Dylan/Neil Young chords are going somewhere that's not a pale imitation. Oh, they're not. Bailed at 0'37" but should have done sooner. Damn, and I liked last weeks' track so much.

PIGPEN
VASTLY overproduced intro, presumably ripped off from somewhere. Bailed at 0'12" with mention of bitches. Seriously, dudes, why do you feel you have to get this in the first few fucking seconds? It's not making you look bigger, or smarter.

ROSS DURAND
Nice guitar figure intro. Banal cookie cutter protest lyrics had me bail at 0'15'. Sorry. Would like to hear more of the guitar.

SEP
My friend recorded something like this when he was drunk once. Boy, he had a lot of issues. Bailed at 0'20.

*SON OF SUPERCAR
Yeah, I can get behind this. It's like early Beck meets Captain Beefheart at Nick Cave's place. "Seven thousand miles of ice and treachery" is a terrific line. Concrete + abstract noun always a winner, ask Dylan. One of those cases where sloppiness sounds awesome. Love love love the warehouse drum kit. Backwards guitar a bonus. Totally gets my vote.

SPORTSWRITERS
Drums suck pretty much on this, ditto the main vocal and the lyrics. Ran out of time basically. Was interesting to try a song in 15/8 though. Guitar solo goes on way too long, and the whole thing should end on the 12-string descending riff instead of stopping dead. Might keep working on this. Obviously indebted to Liberty Belle era Go-Betweens. Well, I made it though. Huh.

STATESHIRT
That's a lot of reverb on the drums. Wow, did you ever hear of leaving space in the mix? Nasally vocals, even through the vocoder. Okay now a bit of a Muse thing happening at 1'24. The double speed thing is good, exciting. Would like to hear this with the mix cleaned up a LOT. Musically good things happening. The build into the fast break is excellent, again. Vocal in this bit not as annoying. Still new stuff at 3'30" - how often does that happen? Getting a bit bored now, hope this is the outro. OK, well it is for me. Bailed at 4'20".

TONY AND JUAN AND ADAM
...evidently know how to record things. Not sure this whole mall punk thig is my bag, even with the crunky overtones. Guitar riff is kind of fun, some work went into the lyrics apparently. In the end just a bit too generic & bro-oriented for me. Bailed at 1'40".

YYARRELL BROTHERS BAND
More piano! Major sevenths! Always a sign that this is going to be 'sensitive'. Not terrible. Got a bit of a Band of Horses thing going on, except more whiny. Dude, it's not all about you. Oh, dear God, rhymed 'heart' and 'apart' at 1'06". THERE ARE OTHER WORDS IN THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE. GO BUY A DICTIONARY. Bailed.


Long story short: votes to PANACOTTA ARMY and SON OF SUPERCAR, both great.

edit: almost a vote to STATESHIRT too, had some terrific things going on in the track but vocal was just too uncertain for me

[PiGPEN]

edit: whadya know - PiGPEN got it right. But only after I had already posted. Close. Just like with the songs, there IS a time element involved, as well.

Fuck time, get money!

omh.jpg (81.99 KiB) Viewed 2636 times

[ken]

Hey Folks,

I want to let you know that Berkeley Social Scene had some technical difficulties this week where our MIDI key/synth tracks weren't exporting for some reason. I submitted the best track I could before the deadline and was able to get everything to work last night. I sent in a new file and hope it will replace the first. Thanks for understanding.

Be well,
Ken

[roymond]

I am floored this week. Generic summed it up. Nice to hear all this awesomeness from awesome people. Even from assholes.

[the panna cotta army]

the panacotta army - i think if you took the title occupy my heart and programmed it into a computer specially designed to autogenerate really generic songs this is what it would come up with.

I say Higgins, I thinkk I'm sortt of pickingg up a negative vibe from this young fellow

[JonPorobil]

jon eric - testicles. that is all.

Suddenly, the whole world makes sense to me in a way it never has before.

JON ERIC
Another piano! Decent EQ but playing's kind of sloppy. It's got a kind of seventies vibe. Lyrics are seriously dodgy. "How it pains me!" Really? Has anyone said that since Victoria was on the throne? Fake passion in chorus. Singer knows a higher truth, apparently. Pity I'm not listening. Bailed at 1'07".

Dang. On the "How it pains me" line, I went back and forth between that and "...and it pains me." Decided on the version as recorded because I was worried that too many of the lines (particularly the second in each triplet) started with "And" already. Of course, you're using one nitpick to justify dismissal of the lyrics as a whole, so I'm guessing that one little change wouldn't have actually swayed you one way or another. Got to make some tough decisions when you're under a time limit, songwriting-wise. I'll go into more detail on my process after I've posted reviews of everyone else's songs.

Oh, and for the record: I didn't actually EQ anything on this track. EQ is kind of my Achilles Heel - I look at the sliders and realize I have no idea what I'm doing. The drums were pre-mixed (probably had some EQ already applied), but other than that, I left stuff alone. Did you have any suggestions on that score?

Let me just say a huge THANK YOU to the people who've already listened and reviewed! Considering the fight has been up for less than 12 hours, I'm really impressed that some people have already had time to listen and put that much thought and work into it. Even if you didn't like the song, the feedback is very much appreciated.

[sportswriters]

Dang. On the "How it pains me" line, I went back and forth between that and "...and it pains me." Decided on the version as recorded because I was worried that too many of the lines (particularly the second in each triplet) started with "And" already.

The problem is 'and it pains me' is pretty much as bad as 'how it pains me'. Like it or not, pop/rock lyrics are expected to have a conversational tone. "It pains me" is archaic/literary. I think your lyrics had some other stuff about 'disaffected youth' in there (sorry if I got you mixed up) which sounded like it came out of a sociology essay or a NYT editorial. I guess I generally want lyrics to be personal/conversational/oblique/clever. When they're pontificating or on-the-nose (e.g. "I love you") it's a big turn off for me. So yeah I don't think changing that line would have made any difference but there's a general issue which I think is worth thinking about.

Jimmy Webb has some great comments about lyric writing in his book Tunesmith which I highly highly recommend, especially to anyone found guilty of rhyming heart/apart or love/above.

This is all craft stuff, so I think it's good to talk about.

[c.layne]

Al Gore Band - A new Dan song in any form is good news to me. Ramshackle fun.

Berkeley Social Scene - Has a sort of early 90s vibe. The way the guitars are recorded reminds me of Pavement, and I will never complain about that. The vocals can make the song feel a bit smaller than the bombast wants it to be. I don't know if maybe a little more space in the reverb or something might help there.

Billy & The Psychotics - Sounds good, solid mixing. My only suggestion would be to lay off the sustain pedal during the verses so the choruses hit a little harder.

Dealin' Doug & The Rocky's Autos - I guess from a sound design standpoint the first couple of minutes are sort of interesting. The song itself isn't doing much for me.

Dirge & Sara - I like the Cocteau Twins guitar sound. The vocals would benefit from being lowered into the mix, as right now they sort of float over top of it. The performance is spot on, though.

DJ Ranger Den - The piano sounds really nice. I would like for it to be a bit louder. Same goes for the cello (I think that's a cello, at least) because I can't hardly hear it at all! The arrangement is very pretty.

Don't Reply - I've heard people complain about instrumental submissions for songs based off of titles, but I think they help balance out the fights, especially listening to them straight through. Good sound choices.

Elephant Finger Et Le Casio Ensemble Contemporain de Paris - The keyboard sounds are fun. The vox confuse me though. Could've maybe been about 30 seconds shorter.

Jon Eric - I wish the vocals were lowered in the mix, because they tend to overpower the piano at times, and I enjoy the piano riff.

King Arthur - Ooohh nice. That is a sweet groove. A little swing is rarely a bad thing.

MC Charlie Oh - Hmm

Metaluna - That chorus could be really huge if you buried the vocals in there a bit. As it is, it kind of sounds like you're doing karaoke to the song. The performances are all good though.

Monkey Touchers - Thanks for that

Noah McLaughlin - The vox aren't really my thing, but I really dig the reverbed out slide guitar and plinking keyboards. Gives it a good atmosphere.

Paco del Stinko - Nice guitar crunch. During the chorus, the vocal harmonies could stand to have some of the mids EQ'd out. They take up some of the same frequencies as the guitar and muddy up the sound a bit. Cool outro!

The Pannacotta Army - Spot-on production. That acoustic sounds super nice and crisp, and the progression is very pleasant. My favorite so far. Nice job!

Pigfarmer Jr - I mean no offense by this, but I don't really have anything to say or add to on guy n guitar stuff. The cello adds some good variation in the arrangement.

PiGPEN - The beat is fucking great. I wish I could hear it a little better! It has a lot of energy that gets overpowered by the vox, especially during the chorus. I would definitely like to pick apart an instrumental version of this.

Ross Durand - Very pretty guitar playin'. Good songwriting. I think the arrangement could benefit from some added instrumentation towards the end.

Sep - This is a bit nauseating, but oddly captivating?! It sounds like 2 or 3 songs playing over top of each other.

sonofsupercar - The haze that floats over the guitar is nice and warm. Good call on the sparse drum beat. It really gives the guitar and raspy vocals room to spread out. Is that a trumpet hiding back there?

Sportswriters - Radio-ready. The production is impeccable, and those vocal harmonies really sell the size of the whole thing. Very nice.

State Shirt - Always a pleasure to hear a new SS song, and the atmosphere here is great as always. Vocal effects are something I've been exploring a bit more lately (see "Head Down" on my new album), and I really like what you've done with yours here. Actually, I'm enjoying all the little details. The chorus is fucking nuts!

Tony and Juan and Adam - Nice energy. Sounds very much like RAtM or RHCP, which I suppose is what you were going for. So, in that repects, I enjoy the instrumentation, but I'm having a hard time getting into the vox.

The Yyarrell Brothers Band - I like the piano progression. The timid vocals add some vulnerability to the song, which makes it easy to relate to. A good closer for this playlist. Nice job!

[JonPorobil]

Dang. On the "How it pains me" line, I went back and forth between that and "...and it pains me." Decided on the version as recorded because I was worried that too many of the lines (particularly the second in each triplet) started with "And" already.

The problem is 'and it pains me' is pretty much as bad as 'how it pains me'. Like it or not, pop/rock lyrics are expected to have a conversational tone. "It pains me" is archaic/literary. I think your lyrics had some other stuff about 'disaffected youth' in there (sorry if I got you mixed up) which sounded like it came out of a sociology essay or a NYT editorial. I guess I generally want lyrics to be personal/conversational/oblique/clever. When they're pontificating or on-the-nose (e.g. "I love you") it's a big turn off for me. So yeah I don't think changing that line would have made any difference but there's a general issue which I think is worth thinking about.

Jimmy Webb has some great comments about lyric writing in his book Tunesmith which I highly highly recommend, especially to anyone found guilty of rhyming heart/apart or love/above.

This is all craft stuff, so I think it's good to talk about.

I'm a big nerd about craft and process, so I'll bite.

I agree with you (mostly - there's obviously going to be some non-conversational lyrics that work well, but I'll concede that they're in the minority), however... Conversational tone is subjective. I know people who say "It pains me," though I'll admit that using "How" in that manner was pretty arch. "Disaffected youth" is used in the lyrics antagonistically - the exact line is "When you complain of disaffected youth," meaning that the narrator is using the audience's words against him. It's clear to me that I had already lost you by then. That's only the tenth line of the song, so maybe my fan club was just never meant to have you in it.

Of the three reviews I've gotten so far, one was non-sensical and two were put off by the lyrics - one by their overt politics, the other by the non-conversant tone (which decision, I propose, might have been influenced by the overt politics).

[JonPorobil]

Jon Eric - I wish the vocals were lowered in the mix, because they tend to overpower the piano at times, and I enjoy the piano riff.

This is just further proof that I shouldn't be allowed to mix my own material. I never seem to hit that sweet spot where the vocals sit just right in the mix. They're always either overpowering the instrumentation, or buried in it.

Thanks for the feedback!

[PiGPEN]

I would definitely like to pick apart an instrumental version of this.

http://googumproduce.com/uploadcrap/geistv2.mp3
When i make a revised version down the road (once i get some distance) i'll probably add in vocalless spots too.

[sportswriters]

I never seem to hit that sweet spot where the vocals sit just right in the mix.

I have a couple of suggestions. The vocal and piano are both mixed dead centre. if you pan the piano off just a few degrees one way you will separate it out some. Secondly scoop out some of the mids on the piano where you voice sits, in the 250-500 Hz (middle C to C2) range maybe. The piano is very full, which is fine for a solo piano piece but in a mix you probably want to scoop it like this to open up some space for the voice. Third, maybe a bit of reverb on the piano to take it back in the mix and leave the voice sounding forward. Fourth, do a mix with the vocal sounding right to you, then do one +3dB and one -3dB. Listen to all three of them over the shittiest speakers you can find, even the bleed from a set of headphones or a kids' toy radio. Or put it on in the studio, close the door and stand outside. You'll soon figure which one is right.

I thought the overall vocal level was right on this but it was fighting with the piano, which was the problem.

[king_arthur]

That drum clumsiness at 0:21 on my track (and I think it's there one time later in the song) isn't exactly intentional, but it was part of the Band In a Box generated drum track I had to work with and I left it in because I had very limited time this week to work on the song. Basically didn't get started on the recording until the day before. So, yeah, deduct points if it bothers you. Ditto for the Christian-y lyric, although I would like to think that it avoids the "judgmental of everyone else" thing that people were complaining about in somebody's entry a fight or two ago...

Charles (KA)

[c.layne]

http://googumproduce.com/uploadcrap/geistv2.mp3
When i make a revised version down the road (once i get some distance) i'll probably add in vocalless spots too.

Thanks, dude. This is a fun track. I always enjoy hip-hop instrumentals.

[sportswriters]

She grew up to be an *awesome* guitarist, though.