SpinTunes 18 Round 2 Challenge: 'Escape the Grid'

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Jim of Seattle
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SpinTunes 18 Round 2 Challenge: 'Escape the Grid'

Post by Jim of Seattle »

First chunk, more to come.

Daniel Sitler - Work in Progress

I enjoyed your use of the challenge in service to the manic depressive theme. That was a great idea, and you mostly realized it. I didn't get the idea of you being in a manic state until you got to the slow down part. This might have been more effective had the uptempo part been a little more manic, so you had further to come down from, adding more contrast. Only when you got to the slow down part did I figure it out. Might have been fun if there was more manic-ness.

I got a little tired of the melody being so centered on the same three pitches. Except for the harmony parts, you only stray from those three pitches occasionally. One great example is that in both the fast and slow parts, the melody is pretty much unchanged. The manic part, as well as being faster, could have also used a great vocal range to get the point across, leaving the three-pitch melody to just the slow part.

Lyrically, mostly works, I'd spend some time cleaning up syllables. And similarly to the comment above, I don't really get a sense of your needing to slow down when you get to that part. It might have been more effective to have vivid and specific examples of manic things you are up to. For example, having a hangover and staying in bed don't seem like things from which you need to slow down. Phrases like "giving it my all" are cliche and too vague. Giving it your all at doing what exactly? I want to see a lot more specific imagery so I get what you're talking about.
Production-wise, all solid. I don't know that you got much mileage out of the a cappella section with the stings starting at 0:49 because you aren't such a dramatic singer that your voice can hold the fort on its own without instrumentation.

Chas Rock - The Show

This one is mostly pretty successful. I like the idea for the song, and the cheesyfunky groove is just the right approach. I can totally see this guy out there.

The chorus is really effective, being the first moment where you make a chord change at the same time as new melodic material is introduced. Really catchy, and switching from long complete-ish sentences to individual words works really well. Congrats on that.
I do have some problems with some of the lyrics, and I think they need some fixing, to skirt around some of the eww factor.

First, I think the multiple references to butt cheeks are taste-challenged and are a turn off for me. Makes me feel sorry for the guy, and making fun of his body is kind of a cheap shot. Let him be a terrible dancer and leave it at that.

"This banger fucks and changes up" ←- what does that mean? If you're going to earn an Explicit Content warning on your album, better be worth it.

A dad kneeing his kid while dancing is also taste-challenged, not funny, and certainly would incur way more than an "oops". I don't know if you're a parent, but my guess is not, because that would stop the entire dance right there. And then the kid is crying and he asks if the kid is stupid from the first knee..... you lost me. Not funny. I want to root for the guy who's letting is freak flag fly at a happy occasion, but by the end of the song I sort of hate him.

Sara Parsons - Rewind, Retry

That gradual slowing down effect, while extremely simple, is quite effective, I liked that a lot. This is a purely aesthetic nitpick, but if it were me, and I was taking a call out in the parking lot of this wild party bar, the change would feel shocking and sudden, not slow and gradual like you've depicted. The slowing down effect doesn't feel viscerally like what hearing that news would be like for me , I think.

I also really like how it's close to the same tune when it gets to the slow part, and your varied performance in the two different sections is convincing both times

I like these lyrics. You have a good idea, and express it pretty clearly. A few lines I have trouble with, "wildin like a damn fool", I don't think 'wildin' is very illustrative of anything,

"fucking party" Ask yourself, does it lose any meaning if you just say "Life is a party"? I also hear you having to rush a bit to get that line out. Needs fixing. That's just me though. Swears are powerful and loud and better be really motivated for me to like their use. Not a prude thing, just that it usually demands our attention in a manner that often gets in the way.

"She's gonna get admitted / So I gotta move my car" This is a great example of a nicely specific and illustrative lyric. I liked that line a lot, and the syllables scan perfectly. In the midst of all the head-spinning trauma, we are still expected to perform mundane tasks like moving our car reminding us that we are still surrounded by non-traumatized people. That always strikes me about hospitals (and courtrooms, btw) Everyone there is either in a very unique unforgettable traumatic and rare experience, or else is in a completely mind-numbing routine. There is almost no in-between. Those two lines reminded me of that whole thing, so thanks. Such is the power of a good lyric.

I'm not convinced that "Did things go too far / Did everyone go crazy" are the right lines there. I would ditch those completely, because it makes it sound like your friend got sick BECAUSE of the wild lifestyle, but in the notes you said it was cancer so that's not really accurate.

See-Man-Ski - Sleep

There is a big mismatch between the music and the subject matter here. This does not sound like a song about a child tiptoeing in and crawling into her parent's bed, and the tempo change doesn't feel motivated by it either. It's also over too soon for this potentially evocative image to come across. I'm afraid this one doesn't work for me, sorry.

Stacking Theory - Escape the Grid

Massively infectious chorus. Had it not been for a few missteps, that chorus alone might have put you over the top. The first time I heard this song, when you got to "I'm trying to escape the grid", I thought "Uh oh, if he repeats this V IV I chorus with those BG vocals I have no chance." And you did, and I despaired. :-)

However, I am clinging to hope that the things that didn't work for me in this song will also bug the judges. Here are said things:
The biggest problem for me was that the two parts seem unnaturally stitched together. This is what I feared I would be hearing with this challenge, and you succumbed to that pitfall imho. All of a sudden you slow down (Despite your bpm claims in the note, it doesn't really read as a tempo change, because it's fairly close to simple half-time. Were I a judge I'd mark off points for that I think. You weren't really going slower, you were just playing fewer notes.). But the bigger issue is that there isn't enough contrast between wanting to escape the grid and actually being in the waves. Same instrumentation, for one thing. To make this evoke a sense of abrupt change of locale, I'd suggest invoking some different tonal color, a synth we haven't heard yet, or a harp or whatever. Something to better indicate we are now in a new place. And harmonically it's the same V IV I which was infectious in the first half but feels more just slow than relaxing in waves.

Truth is, this is a good problem to have. The first half is so much fun that I'm not in the mood for a tempo change. You painted yourself into a corner of catchiness.

Lyrically, I like the phrasing of the verses in the first half. The way that fourth line extends beyond the length of the first 3 lines is super satisfying.

I think the whole Archimedes bit is stretching too hard to be clever. Good as the first idea come up with, but had this been my song I would have written that verse in my little notebook, then told myself "I can do better than that", hoping I was right.

I wish there were some kind of section in transition. In the first part you're saying "I want to escape the grid" and in the second part it's "I did escape the grid". It's like you just jumped to the end. A bridge where he talks about actually getting out of the grid would go a long way.

This song worries me in terms of competition.

Jealous Brother - Uncle Jerry

This feels like a medley rather than a single song with different tempos. It starts really strong. But the abrupt change in tempo for "out under stars" comes too soon I think. I want another verse after the first four lines, if not more. I think you shift tempos much too soon.

But my real confounding with this song is that that tempo changes don't seem well-motivated. The section where he's going 20, 30, 45 etc is where the tempo should start increasing. Why didn't that happen? Seems like an easy choice.

Then you actually SAY "They have to think fast", right when you go slow. Huh.

I really like the chord progression in that break right after George slams it down. I want a lot more of that. Niice.

Then I'm left a little underwhelmed by the story itself. Why did they paint it red? The car's been painted before? That's all kind of confusing.
Like I said, lots of interesting things going on that I like, but feels like a bunch of good ideas smooshed together because you needed a tempo change song.

Sober - Waiting for the Crash

So of course you don't really need reviews here, you know what you're doing, so comments here are merely personal preferences had I been collaborating on it, as opposed to suggestions for improvement.

I'm not crazy about the growly Tom Waits voice, it feels forced in a few places. A little goes a long way. Less.

The line "If you ever get used to sleeping in a real bed" and the next one, that couplet, had me stumped for a while. I think what you mean is "EVEN if you get used to...". Yeah? If so, that 'even' is important in clarifying the sentiment. Another micronitpick is that "If you ever..." line implies that the next line should be "You WILL keep living your life...". IF you do this thing, THEN you WILL do this other thing. Make sense?

The Dutch Widows - An Awkward Mend

I think there's a pretty good song hiding in there, but this iteration doesn't quite hit the mark for me.

First though, despite all your apologetics in the song bio, I found the tempo change pretty nice, not an awkward mend at all. Sometimes a "snap" tempo change is just fine. I very rarely have the nerve. So though you missed the mark on other things, the thing you were apologizing for turned out just fine for me. Go figure.

I was pondering about why the lyrics in your chorus "I did it all..." were so very unspecific and bland, yet that was working for me in this instance. And yet the line "It is so frustrating" doesn't work for me at all. Why is that? I don't know. But I am freely hereby contradicting myself with the next two comments:

1. I like the chorus lyrics with "I did it all" etc. Even though I normally don't like vague pronouncements like this, in this instance it works.
2. I don't like the line "It is so frustrating" because it is a vague pronouncement and not specific or interesting enough.

But here's why this song didn't make it for me. The pinched guitar drone is fine, but maybe a little hot. But both the lead and the secondary vocalist have that same pinched quality to them, so the overall sonic experience of the song in the aggregate is akin to a fire alarm. So the whole song is this hot electric color, and it's grating after not very long at all. The drastic EQ on the vocals further highlight that midrange color. Makes me long for some cooler, rounder tones somewhere.

The chord progression is nice, but it feels like you are kind of trying to bury it among the guitar drone vibe.
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Re: SpinTunes 18 Round 2 Challenge: 'Escape the Grid'

Post by seemanski »

Jim of Seattle wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:24 am
See-Man-Ski - Sleep

There is a big mismatch between the music and the subject matter here. This does not sound like a song about a child tiptoeing in and crawling into her parent's bed, and the tempo change doesn't feel motivated by it either. It's also over too soon for this potentially evocative image to come across. I'm afraid this one doesn't work for me, sorry.
No worries, thanks for your honest opinion. I never really got into this one and I did hover the send button for a while. FWIW, the idea behind it was that my kid comes in and disrupts my sleep, the intensity builds up and up as I get more and more frustrated until I cave pick up my child and put her back in her bed. I had to put my kid at the start because she wanted to do it and I'll do anything to get her into music.

Thanks again.
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Re: SpinTunes 18 Round 2 Challenge: 'Escape the Grid'

Post by Jim of Seattle »

OK, here's the rest of them. Man, a whole lot of yelling over fuzz guitars this round. Huh...

Timothy Patrick Hinkle - A Lost Love and a Roving Eye

This song feels long. I say that because I'm not sure what you're talking about most of the time, so I'm kept at this far distance. This causes your tempo changes to feel unmotivated so they tend to break any mood you have set up musically, which is all I have to hang onto, not knowing what you're on about lyrically. I think I sort of get what's going on in the song, but the lyrics are too opaque and fantastical and it's asking too much effort to follow it.

That backwards snare sound is sort of interesting, but it's mixed too loud in the beginning. And it becomes unwelcome popping in as it does in the quieter verses. It sounds like bits of pepper in the pudding and for me, doesn't seem to belong there. Perhaps they are meant to evoke floating eyes flying through the air, but it just sounds like a backwards snare. Some attention to better crafting that sound might get the idea across better, in which case it might end up working.

The electric stabs under "something in my eye" and onward are too loud and take over the sonic space. That guitar is sort of the dealbreaker for me. Take that track down by about half or even more and you might just have something here.

The Brewhouse Sessions - A Little Bit of Heaven

It's hard to criticize a song that's so sincerely meant. If I had to, I'd say that it suffers from sameness and my ear gets musically a little tired. It's a long time to stay at that exact level with no variety.

But again, it seems heartfelt, so I'm reluctant to even say anything.

New Fangled Trolleys - Dat Studio Money

I had a similar reaction to this as with the sticky notes song. Your voice sits so long on a pretty high pitch and then the frying starts like in yellow sticky notes and it's a lot to take at that same level.

OK, as for the rest of the song, I think the first verse is super strong. I was completely on board. When the second verse starts, like in sticky notes, it gets angrier and you start losing me. I was just about to hang up on you when you came back to the mainstream verse, but this time it's imbued with sarcasm and a second voice comes in at that same level. When we go back to the fast part a second time, your bitterness, while I'm sure is justified in the inspiration for the song, doesn't put me on your side.

Brian Gray - End of the World

OK, Brian, here's the thing: Everyone I have turned onto the SpinTunes competition (family and friends) these past couple weeks have all said the same thing: "Brian Gray sounds exactly like what you used to do, he's totally channeling your younger self." I must admit I noticed it almost immediately myself with the Purple Dot song. My recognition of what you are going for with this whatever you are creating is positively uncanny. Having written for musical theatre, I was completely immersed in that style for years. I was also into science fiction and wrote silly science fiction operas. Sound familiar?

In my case, one day I woke up and was suddenly done with musical theatre, and now I can't abide it at all. So you are at a serious genre bias disadvantage from me, I'm afraid. Not only have I developed an unnatural aversion to the whole contemporary Broadway sound, I can see the strings, so to speak, so I'm kind of unfairly unimpressable there.

So, nothing against you at all, I'm just coming clean with my quite unreasonable, subjective and unfair genre bias.

All that said, this is awesome, and well done. Good luck, you are stiff competition indeed!

Jocko Homomorphism - Theorist's Dilemma

Very Devonic, but of course that's intended. What makes Devo work and this one a little less is that despite all their synthy robotic vibe, they really rocked. And their lead vocals had a whole lot of energy and commitment to the 'character'. The lack of that hurts the overall effect of this song.

For example, while I HEAR the 7/4, I don't FEEL it. So when you switch to regular 4/4 for the chorus the change isn't so much visceral as intellectual. Some well-placed kick drum would go a long way to fix that.

For being such a spacey song, the lead vocal is very dry. Some effects processing on that would be welcome to help with the spacey vibe. Also I would up the low-midrange on the vocal a bit to give it more weight.

I think the gradual tempo change works pretty well, but it doesn't really make sense with the story of the song. A gradual accelerando like that implies a heightening of energy/stress/confusion/etc, but this guy isn't experiencing that in a way that motivates the tempo increase, so it seems tacked on. If it weren't the challenge and you were writing this song, I doubt the gradual tempo increase would occur to you because it doesn't seem necessary,

Lyrically, this reads better than it sings. There are some good lines in there, and having been given the song bio I'm following it, but without that I don't think it would engage me much.

Cavedwellers - Ricochet

OK, well this is perfectly competent musically. Nice production, nice tight band navigating those tempo changes flawlessly, good vocals. Definitely will be seeing you in round 3 should I also make it there.

For me, the song just sort of sits there though. I wish it had a catchier musical and/or lyrical hook. There are a lot of lyrics here, and they are pretty hard to figure out. I think I know what the song is about, but with all that text it's a lot of work to keep up with. And musically it's not exciting enough for me to make me want to go to the effort of figuring out what it means.

Third Cat - Some Truths

Ok, if I were a judge I would disqualify this song. You have meter changes, but no significant TEMPO changes. In fact, the ticking clock betrays this very fact. If an unwavering pulse like the clock can tick in time to the song all the way through, you know you aren't changing tempo at all. I suspected this when I song the tempos listed in the song bio. All your tempos listed factor in mathematically, being double or half or 3/2. Foul! :-)

With that out of the way, This is a pretty nice song. The clock ticking through the meter changes is pretty darn cool, I loved that. And your vocals are really nice. This is really a pretty decent song musically. The "House of the Rising Sun" guitar on the verse is really nice.

Lyrically, this is impossible to make out. I'm sure it means something to you, but you aren't letting me in, so I stay at a significant distance.

Governing Dynamics - Across the Wasteland

I don't get the appeal of the fuzz guitar drone. It's like radio static. Why do people like to hear that sound?

Anyway, I find the fuzz guitar in this song irritatingly unpleasant on the ears. Which is a shame because there are good bones here. I can imagine the song remixed with an acoustic instead or even that guitar you use at the end instead. The problem I have with the fuzz is that it is so rich in overtones you could be playing pretty much any chord and I couldn't tell. And it's really dry and mixed loud.

For the first couple minutes though, this is really nice. I like short, succinct lyrics if they're gonna be obscure like that, so that's a box checked off. The tempo increase at the end is interesting because it's not motivated by any story, merely (I assume) by the phrase "my heart is racing", and it works for me. With a more pleasing sonic ensemble, this could be kind of great.

Vocally, same problems as with Violet Lies. You have trouble singing on pitch, as do I. I use mild pitch correction (though my Melodyne license expired so I haven't for me two SpinTunes entries.) I don't see any shame in it, and it saved me from having to do 20 takes of a single line just to get it in tune. It would be worth it for you to look into that because you have a good rock feel to your performances.

Jim of Seattle - Snorkeling, Snorkeling

I was taking a shower or cooking dinner or something and I was saying the word "snorkeling" to myself, and it made me giggle. Then probably half the finished lyrics got worked on in the back of my head while doing other things over the next few hours. Next time I really paid a lot of attention to it I had a couple verses mostly done. The back of my brain also dreamed up the olde tyme tavern scene, and before I knew it there was a whole vision for the taking. So when finally sitting down to really work on it, it was mostly done in my head. Yay.

After a week I listened to it again for the first time yesterday. I definitely feel like I achieved what I set out to. Whether that was a worthy project in the first place is everyone else's call.

Temnere - 20w

Were I a judge, I would disqualify this song. I cannot hear the tempo change at all, and while I believe you that it's in there, it doesn't make any impression whatsoever, and if you ever produced this for an album and forgot to include it no one would be the wiser. So, foul!!

With that out of the way, this is pretty decent. I see what you mean about wishing you had another day or two, and I think it would be worth the effort. It's an almost-there situation for me. That confounding section with all the syncopation in the second half is consistently interesting as I find myself trying to locate the downbeat. In this instance, the fuzz guitars work ok because they aren't mixed front and center and are usually just effective little percussive stabs.

I'm sort of confused by the song in general though. For one thing I don't understand the title. While I like the short phrases in the lyrics, they are mostly telling not showing, but I don't mind them too much because it's not a lyric-forward song anyway.

So this seems to be a song about rocking the house rather than saying something specific, which is fine. So this song is fine.

Phlubububub - Threads! A Musical Odyssey in Four Movements: Jimmy and Ruth/Threnody for the Victims of Sheffield/Under a Cold Sky/A New Normal

This is an impressive feat, and a big project to have taken on. While it's immensely unpleasant, I think that was the idea, so you succeeded there. :-)

I think you dropped the ball though. For me there is exactly one simple change that would have made an enormous improvement, and that is that the vocals are mixed so low that you need a lyric sheet to follow it. But this is a STORY SONG. If there are any rules to songwriting, one of them should be that if your song aims to tell a story, make it so the people can hear the story. Reading along with this song it's a lot better than merely listening to it for that reason.

If you had more time and resources to work on this, I would work to make the different sections a little more sonically evocative. I wanted part 3 to be a lot moodier. You have the raw material there with the interesting chord changes, but introducing some different colors would help.

Part 2 is interesting from a purely auditory angle, but is awfully long for the mileage you're getting out of it. You could shorten that by half and have the same impact I think.

Part 4 is exciting and pretty damn cool. I don't like listening to it, but I know that's the point.

I think this will be a high ranking contender, congrats!

Brother Baker - The Silver Lining

This is fine, but if you had had more time I think you would have come up with that next cool idea that puts it over the top and that only happens when you live with it for longer than you had. No idea what that would be, but in 3 hours it's great you got as far as you did.

I do think the sentiment does not match the music. This song reminds me of some pre-big-time grunge, (names not coming to mind), particularly the chord progression, so it feels dark and ominous, in contrast to the lyrics. Maybe that was on purpose, and if so then my comment would be it doesn't sound like it's on purpose. And when you got to the shouted verse, that seemed more incongruous. So, well, the sentiment is having trouble being emotionally communicated. I want to be happy with you, but for having the silver lining dropping into your lap, you seem kind of upset about it.

Last little nitpick, I think I was struck by your sudden use of "you" on only one line. It comes across like it's maybe a song at an ex-girlfriend you are bitter about? It's a bit confusing, I didn't know who you were suddenly referring to.

Menage a Tune - No Time to Die

Well, ok. If you knew when you recorded it that you weren't going to get any instrumental backing, you should have simplified the implied harmonies. It sounds like you are hearing harmonies in your head that are perhaps more sophisticated than can be gotten across a cappella.

You could have also set up the joke a little better. In the first verse you are saying "somebody has to step up", so the lyric is about who that person might be. I'm thinking it will be a list of possible suggestions, or a list of necessary traits, or something like that. Lots of possibilities for fun lyrics there. The singer doesn't know who it will be, but it has to be SOMEbody. But then when you tell us who it is, it's confusing because when you said someone has to step up, it didn't sound like you knew who that was. But you knew all along, which is confusing. And repeating the punch line over and over gets old and sort of wrecks the joke. Less is more.

"BucketHat" Bobby Matheson - The Flame-Proof Polka

You and I had a similar idea here. I hope we don't cancel each other out!

The tempo changes are effective, and I can see the scene, and I like your little vocalisms, reminding me of this classic gem: https://open.spotify.com/track/2uzyiRdv ... de8cba44d7 (start at 2:37).

I like these lyrics a lot. Simple idea carried through with lots of clever examples, expressed with fealty to the stresses of the tune (mostly). Nice job!

Purely technical nit to pick: Your rhyme scheme changes from AAAB to ABAB seemingly at random.

Good job. This one worries me in terms of contest competition.

Entertainment Brothers - Slowly (SHADOW)

Shadows get abbreviated reviews.

I like this one. It's too long for the teensy idea, and the acceleration as you read off the speedometer could be a lot more dramatic. 100 miles an hour is really fast. You speed up to maybe only 45 mph or so feels like :-). And when you get to it the second time it starts to get pretty boring. But it goes down pretty well all in all. I could see this as a pretty darn cool 3 minute song in which the acceleration only happens one time and goes really fast.

Red Watcher - No Measure (SHADOW)

Shadows get abbreviated reviews.

This would have been a strong contender were it a "real" entry, so bummer for you. It feels awfully slow, as I think I was craving more harmonic and melodic interest. Also I think I wanted it to "go somewhere". It's kind of the same from start to finish. It might be a bit too simple for its own good. But I liked this just fine. Again, shame it isn't a real entry.

The Pleasantry - So Fucking Loud

Shadows get abbreviated reviews.

I get it. What's weird about it is most of the music is actually not loud at all. YOU'RE the one who's loud. Ironically you come across as this really angry and possibly unstable woman in a relatively quiet setting.
Last edited by Jim of Seattle on Sat Oct 23, 2021 9:28 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: SpinTunes 18 Round 2 Challenge: 'Escape the Grid'

Post by governingdynamics »

Jim,

Feel free to not subject yourself to my music for the remainder of Spintunes. I'm releasing us both.
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Re: SpinTunes 18 Round 2 Challenge: 'Escape the Grid'

Post by thirdcatmusic »

ha, Jim, well I certainly hope the judges don't see it that way. I thought my tempo changes were pretty extreme. I don't see why doing doing half time (and even quarter time) should be a disqualification.

Also; there's a section where the tempo gradually increases from 135 to 138 - yes, a very slight tempo change, but it is there and isn't a half or a double time thing. I put that in there just in case someone would think that doing double times and half times wasn't a real tempo change and also because I like the thing of having the later verses and choruses being slightly faster as a way of increasing energy. I think a lot of old school songs did this naturally and we get away from it these days by having everything on the grid at the same tempo.

you're right about the metric modulation from verse to chorus but to me that feels like an increase in tempo (and in my DAW it's an increase in tempo) I think that going from triplets to straight 8ths effect is neat, the hi-hats stay the same but everything else changes.

(funny thing is my round one song has a ton of tempo changes - every section has one - I put them in there as it's something I've been experimenting a lot with lately, trying to do subtle tempo changes from section to section to create more energy.)
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Re: SpinTunes 18 Round 2 Challenge: 'Escape the Grid'

Post by Jim of Seattle »

thirdcatmusic wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 2:05 pm
(funny thing is my round one song has a ton of tempo changes - every section has one - I put them in there as it's something I've been experimenting a lot with lately, trying to do subtle tempo changes from section to section to create more energy.)
Yeah, you know I have heard of that, never tried it myself but it seems like it should work. I do remember that I've had songs where I needed a tempo change in the middle, and then it is supposed to return to the original tempo at the end, but setting the bpm exactly the same didn't feel right, felt slower, so it ends a little faster so that it feels the same. Ears are weird.

I often wish I could play a beat by hand into my DAW and then tell it "Please adjust the bpm on the fly according to those beats". There's probably some way to do it.

If you've ever tried to import an analog recording into a DAW and tried to figure out the bpm, it becomes instantly apparent that most songs don't stay at one tempo all the way through. Your 135-138 thing doesn't wash for me because that would be in the realm of "margin of error". By your definition then, if I'd increased tempo from 100 to 100.03 it would have been technically 'legal'.

Anyway, I think if you were disqualified you would already know by now. I hope you aren't. Unless I take my own selfish desire to come out on top into account, in which case I hope you are. :-)
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Re: SpinTunes 18 Round 2 Challenge: 'Escape the Grid'

Post by Jim of Seattle »

governingdynamics wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 1:34 pm
Jim,

Feel free to not subject yourself to my music for the remainder of Spintunes. I'm releasing us both.
LOL, never gonna happen. Hope springs eternal. And while I didn't love Violet Lies either, it certainly doesn't assault my ears. Maybe the solution is for me to try harder to call out the goodness, and not write reviews for loud songs early in the morning.

Anyway, I hereby admit I was unnecessarily nasty in that review. Fixed now. My bad.

Note to everyone else If my review upsets you, let me know. I honestly could go on and on and on about just about every song, but in the interest of time, I just write the first things that come to mind, which are admittedly sometimes negative, and then I'll write that and feel like I'm done and can move on. Which is crummy of me. So let me know, because for every review that is unfairly negative, I probably could write another one much more positive. some people want the raw reaction no matter how bad, and some are looking for more encouragement. I'm trying to get better at this. It's important to me.
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Re: SpinTunes 18 Round 2 Challenge: 'Escape the Grid'

Post by FireBear »

Jim of Seattle wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 1:22 pm

Brother Baker - The Silver Lining

This round has an awfully large amount of yelling over fuzz guitars. Sigh.

This is fine, but you are going to need to learn to work around your schedule a little better, as you just didn't have enough time. I've been there, believe me. My writing style completely changed when my daughter was born, suddenly there was no time. I figured it out and so will you. My solution probably won't be your solution, each follows his own path.

So, this is a lot of yelling over fuzz guitars. It's fine, but nothing really special about it. I was particularly struck by when you shouted the verse starting with "When perfection's not an option". You're telling us how happy you are, but it's like you're doing so next to the engine of a 747. So, well, the sentiment is having trouble being emotionally communicated :-).
I think you can make your criticism more constructive. Yeah, we didn't have enough time to perfect a song this round, and yes I agree the mix isn't up to the normal caliber (there is a lot of fuzz in the guitars). That is good feedback, but this review just sounds like a general distaste for a genre. Also there is this assumption that because we had a busy week, we don't know how to generally work around our schedules. Sometimes life is unpredictable and doesn't leave you much time for hobbies. Provide some constructive feedback on how people can improve and leave out the other stuff. The world's got enough negativity, so let's be uplifting towards our fellow creators. Your review just comes off as loathing and sarcastic. That's not productive.
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Jim of Seattle
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Re: SpinTunes 18 Round 2 Challenge: 'Escape the Grid'

Post by Jim of Seattle »

FireBear wrote:
Fri Oct 22, 2021 7:30 pm
I think you can make your criticism more constructive. Yeah, we didn't have enough time to perfect a song this round, and yes I agree the mix isn't up to the normal caliber (there is a lot of fuzz in the guitars). That is good feedback, but this review just sounds like a general distaste for a genre. Also there is this assumption that because we had a busy week, we don't know how to generally work around our schedules. Sometimes life is unpredictable and doesn't leave you much time for hobbies. Provide some constructive feedback on how people can improve and leave out the other stuff. The world's got enough negativity, so let's be uplifting towards our fellow creators. Your review just comes off as loathing and sarcastic. That's not productive.
Man, you're right. That wasn't as productive as it could have been. I'm sorry about that. I wasn't being sarcastic that I can see anywhere, but it came across that way to you. I really do empathize with the time thing. Anyway, sorry again. I'me editing my review right now and you can see it if you want.
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Re: SpinTunes 18 Round 2 Challenge: 'Escape the Grid'

Post by Jim of Seattle »

So hey everyobdy, I realize this forum isn't very well attended, but I just wanted to get a few things off my chest.

After Brother Baker's take down of my review, I felt really badly, and so this morning I had to go back and tone them down a few notches. So if I gave you a nasty review, I'm sorry, and if you are so interested, you might want to revisit yours because it's probably kinder now. I didn't change my opinions much, but I expressed them in hopefully a much more constructive way.

I think I was in a bad mood and not feeling the seeming preponderance of electric guitar. Or something. No excuse, just a possible explanation.

I know how my brain works, and I have always been susceptible to this kind of thing. Rather than someone who slowly ponders something and comes to a gradual conclusion about it, I come to my conclusions very fast, and after that gradually work out whether they were justified or not. But what happens is that when I'm trying to get a lot out and am short on time, I won't take that extra time to evaluate those initial impressions, and will just write them down and call it good. So they come across like a few of them did here.

I also suffer from ridiculously high standards, and get so very excited about the possibilities for what music can do and occasionally does do, that I think I live in a perpetual state of craving that musical euphoria, so that just OK is not an option. I realize not everyone is like that. It's what has always made me a terrible collaborator.

If I choose to write reviews next round, I will work harder at avoiding that pitfall. I DO NOT want to upset people. I know what negative reviews feel like. So why didn't I remember that when I was writing them? Who knows. Gotta be better about it though.

If anyone read this mea culpa, thank you.
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Re: SpinTunes 18 Round 2 Challenge: 'Escape the Grid'

Post by Chumpy »

The Jerks have returned! This time we're joined by Owl of Miscellaneous Owl and Vowl Sounds, as we run down all the songs and shadows from SpinTunes #18 Round 2!

Dig it: At just over three hours, this podcast is PONDEROUS man, fuckin' PONDEROUS. You can listen to just the songs you care about here:

INDEX: Enjoy your escape!
"I don't recommend ending on a bad joke." --ken
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Re: SpinTunes 18 Round 2 Challenge: 'Escape the Grid'

Post by thirdcatmusic »

hey jerks & owl - great podcast. it made my day that owl liked my track.

btw jerks - I noticed that I should have gotten cut because botw had me 18th but I was given credit for 16th, so that would have put me one point below Governing Dynamics.
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Re: SpinTunes 18 Round 2 Challenge: 'Escape the Grid'

Post by Jim of Seattle »

OK, I think I'm coming across... let me start over.

OK, I REALIZE I'm coming across here more judgmental than I mean to. Note to self.

Specifically, in the podcast it was mentioned that I would want to disqualify songs for being borderline challenge-appropriate, and I realize that the light-hearted kidding around is not coming across in the reviews at all.

So... For the record: In real life, if I were a judge, I don't think I would actually disqualify ANY song. The box-checking philosophy mentioned in the podcasts I would take a step further, that if I squint and can see what the submitter THOUGHT was meeting the challenge, that would be good enough for me. My cries of "Foul" should have been followed by "But who cares, you submitted a frickin song in a frickin week. It's in."

Just needed to get that out there.

Also, an interesting comment made by Owl in the podcast at around minute 41, regarding specificity of lyrics. I agree with her about that actually, I just think that if your lyrics are going to be non-specific, you have created a far higher bar for yourself. If we hear a story song about a puppy dying, it's not that hard to get us emotionally involved, but if our lyrics are really poetic and opaque, they'd better be darn engaging for us to be able to stay with it, because we don't have the dying puppy to cling to, so to speak. And if those opaque poetic nonsense lyrics aren't that great... well, then the music better be so cool we don't even care. So writing unspecific lyrics well is going to be a much heavier lift and therefore will fail more often among songwriters who aren't like brilliant poetic savants or something.

Lastly, "titular" means "in the title", like Little Orphan Annie is the titular character in Annie. So that would have to be Uncle Jerry himself.===
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Re: SpinTunes 18 Round 2 Challenge: 'Escape the Grid'

Post by owl »

Jim of Seattle wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 5:42 pm
Also, an interesting comment made by Owl in the podcast at around minute 41, regarding specificity of lyrics.
I think you probably mean the section around 1:02 where we’re discussing The Dutch Widows?
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Re: SpinTunes 18 Round 2 Challenge: 'Escape the Grid'

Post by neutronflow »

Chumpy wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 2:19 pm
[*]01:07:45 - Timothy Patrick Hinkle - A Lost Love and a Roving Eye

Ryan: "So, just to be clear, it's not Tim Hinkle, it's Timothy Patrick Hinkle.
...Timothy Patrick Hinkle is bringing the syllables back, baby!"
There are a lot of Tims Hinkle online who are not me, so when I put out an album in 2019 I was thinking that I should differentiate myself from the rest of that enormous bunch. I didn't have a band name I was really happy with so I wound up using my full name. Of course, even though it brings the numbers down (considerably), I'm still not the only Timothy Patrick Hinkle out there, so it may not have been the best call. I'm somewhat tied into it now on Bandcamp and Spotify (and I do actually like the way it looks/sounds or I wouldn't have gone with it at all), but maybe I'll just send stuff in as Tim Hinkle the next time I do SpinTunes... or maybe TPH (pronounced tffff, obviously)...
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Re: SpinTunes 18 Round 2 Challenge: 'Escape the Grid'

Post by governingdynamics »

Jim of Seattle wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 4:10 pm

Anyway, I hereby admit I was unnecessarily nasty in that review. Fixed now. My bad.
I appreciate that, Jim, thank you.

I am unlikely to abandon my fuzz pedals, that is just kind of what I like. I suspect that's just a genre bridge we aren't going to cross.

As far not being able to tell if I was playing the wrong chord... haha, you might think that. But I assure that is not the case. ;p Maybe I'll do a special take of the next song for some, er, contrast.

Pitch correction -- I've got Nectar and it always sounds very obviously badly horribly fake and artificial. I think I have some kind of melodyne license with my DAW. Maybe I'll try it. Part of the issue I'm having right now is that Spintunes is once again falling primary during the eight or so weeks of the year when my breath capacity is drastically reduced by my seasonal mold allergies. But, excuses excuses.

I do appreciate the time you took to put these reviews together. I suspect you're generally going to have the same types of issues with me regardless of the song, which is why I said what I did originally. I don't want anyone isn't going to enjoy my music to chore through it, and the feedback I get from that isn't generally the kind that's helpful, so nobody's having a good time and it would be easily avoided, you know?
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Re: SpinTunes 18 Round 2 Challenge: 'Escape the Grid'

Post by neutronflow »

Chumpy wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 2:19 pm
[*]01:07:45 - Timothy Patrick Hinkle - A Lost Love and a Roving Eye

Owl: "I will disagree at least somewhat about the backwards percussion, I just kind of like backwards sounds like that and weird noises in people's productions."
Woohoo! I will at least consider bringing those sounds down in the mix if/when I get around to reworking this, though.
Owl: "I thought it was like maybe the worms are flying into people's eyes... and like pulling out the eyes and... causing the eyes to fly around..."
Yes, this.
Owl: "..it's a much more gruesome sounding thing than I would have expected from something inspired by E. Nesbit."

Ryan: "...might be worth looking into. Unless it's got a lot of eye burrowing content..."
The story that I cited as inspiration, "The Deliverers of Their Country," has no eye burrowing, nor do any other Nesbit stories I know of. I just got carried away. My song is not a remotely loyal adaptation of the story. However, she did write a number of supernatural/horror stories in addition to the children's stories that she is best known for today. Her sense of humor is the thing I like best about her writing, and my song utterly fails to capture that.
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Re: SpinTunes 18 Round 2 Challenge: 'Escape the Grid'

Post by owl »

I mentioned in the podcast that due to my lack of written notes, I kind of blanked on their songs while we were recording, and so I owe Seemanski and The Brewhouse Sessions a better review… if there’s anyone else I missed who I had said that about in the podcast, please let me know and I’ll write out a bit more of a detailed review for you!

Seemanski: the speed changes are very effective and dramatic, although I have to agree with some of the other comments about a mismatch between feel and content. I really like the production/arrangement—the parts interlock well with each other and the layers you add in are really tasteful. I especially dig that main piano motif and the super quiet delivery of that last word. I would have liked some variation in the structure—I see your note about that being hard to do without losing momentum, but maybe something like an extended climactic instrumental freakout in there could work? The song as a whole worked better for me if I didn’t really listen to the lyrics and just enjoyed it musically. That being said, “at the expense of me” instead of “at my expense” felt like an awkward turn of phrase and kind of stuck out to me even as I listened without trying to pay attention to the lyrics. I quite liked this overall and apologize again for blanking on it during the podcast!

The Brewhouse Sessions: my cynicism about the sweetness of the lyrics aside, I think you’ve done what you set out to do here, but the structure and/or arrangement and/or melody could use some spicing up; the very straight VCVCVC structure of the main part of the song left me wanting a bit more of a change before the slowdown. A bridge or solo section would go a long way. The cutoff at the very end seems a bit awkward and abrupt. The vocals have a lot of good intensity and feeling, but again I feel like they could use more dynamic changes through the song, as they swoop in at a 10 and stay exactly that intense all the way through. I think a bit more of an ebb and flow could help capture the listener’s attention and emotions better. Sorry also to you guys for not having more notes at the time of recording the podcast.

P.S. I finally figured it out, I think the song Chas Rock’s reminded me of was “Take Me Out” by Franz Ferdinand!
P.P.S. I like fuzz guitars, please keep them coming
P.P.P.S. Tim, I’m glad to hear I interpreted the flying eyeball worm lyrics correctly
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Re: SpinTunes 18 Round 2 Challenge: 'Escape the Grid'

Post by seemanski »

owl wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:28 pm
I mentioned in the podcast that due to my lack of written notes, I kind of blanked on their songs while we were recording, and so I owe Seemanski and The Brewhouse Sessions a better review… if there’s anyone else I missed who I had said that about in the podcast, please let me know and I’ll write out a bit more of a detailed review for you!

Seemanski: the speed changes are very effective and dramatic, although I have to agree with some of the other comments about a mismatch between feel and content. I really like the production/arrangement—the parts interlock well with each other and the layers you add in are really tasteful. I especially dig that main piano motif and the super quiet delivery of that last word. I would have liked some variation in the structure—I see your note about that being hard to do without losing momentum, but maybe something like an extended climactic instrumental freakout in there could work? The song as a whole worked better for me if I didn’t really listen to the lyrics and just enjoyed it musically. That being said, “at the expense of me” instead of “at my expense” felt like an awkward turn of phrase and kind of stuck out to me even as I listened without trying to pay attention to the lyrics. I quite liked this overall and apologize again for blanking on it during the podcast!

The Brewhouse Sessions: my cynicism about the sweetness of the lyrics aside, I think you’ve done what you set out to do here, but the structure and/or arrangement and/or melody could use some spicing up; the very straight VCVCVC structure of the main part of the song left me wanting a bit more of a change before the slowdown. A bridge or solo section would go a long way. The cutoff at the very end seems a bit awkward and abrupt. The vocals have a lot of good intensity and feeling, but again I feel like they could use more dynamic changes through the song, as they swoop in at a 10 and stay exactly that intense all the way through. I think a bit more of an ebb and flow could help capture the listener’s attention and emotions better. Sorry also to you guys for not having more notes at the time of recording the podcast.

P.S. I finally figured it out, I think the song Chas Rock’s reminded me of was “Take Me Out” by Franz Ferdinand!
P.P.S. I like fuzz guitars, please keep them coming
P.P.P.S. Tim, I’m glad to hear I interpreted the flying eyeball worm lyrics correctly
No worries, I haven't had the chance to listen to the podcast yet and read your review here first. At least now I know what is coming. Thanks for taking the time to post your thoughts.
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Jim of Seattle
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Re: SpinTunes 18 Round 2 Challenge: 'Escape the Grid'

Post by Jim of Seattle »

neutronflow wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:25 pm
There are a lot of Tims Hinkle online who are not me, so when I put out an album in 2019 I was thinking that I should differentiate myself from the rest of that enormous bunch. I didn't have a band name I was really happy with so I wound up using my full name. Of course, even though it brings the numbers down (considerably), I'm still not the only Timothy Patrick Hinkle out there, so it may not have been the best call. I'm somewhat tied into it now on Bandcamp and Spotify (and I do actually like the way it looks/sounds or I wouldn't have gone with it at all), but maybe I'll just send stuff in as Tim Hinkle the next time I do SpinTunes... or maybe TPH (pronounced tffff, obviously)...
I doubt it brings numbers down considerably. I for one love that you used your full name. I noticed that in Round 1 and admired the choice right then. My artist name came with about 4 seconds' forethought as I was submitting my first Song Fight song and realized at the moment of emailing my mp3 that oh crap, I need a band name. A couple years later I wanted to change it to something cooler, and requested input from the SF community, and one comment was that after people get to know you as the artist with that name, it seems wrong to change it up because there are (hopefully good) associations built up with it.

So own it, Timothy Patrick Hinkle!
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Re: SpinTunes 18 Round 2 Challenge: 'Escape the Grid'

Post by Jim of Seattle »

governingdynamics wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:31 pm
Pitch correction -- I've got Nectar and it always sounds very obviously badly horribly fake and artificial. I think I have some kind of melodyne license with my DAW. Maybe I'll try it. Part of the issue I'm having right now is that Spintunes is once again falling primary during the eight or so weeks of the year when my breath capacity is drastically reduced by my seasonal mold allergies. But, excuses excuses.

I do appreciate the time you took to put these reviews together. I suspect you're generally going to have the same types of issues with me regardless of the song, which is why I said what I did originally. I don't want anyone isn't going to enjoy my music to chore through it, and the feedback I get from that isn't generally the kind that's helpful, so nobody's having a good time and it would be easily avoided, you know?
Wow, the allergies thing is actually really good excuse. I used to suffer from them horribly from March-July (my mom used to say I gave up breathing for Lent - it's a Catholic joke). One year I just didn't have them and that was that - allergies gone forever! How cool is that.

I finally got the trial version of full Melodyne which will last me a month, long enough to make it through SpinTunes even if I get to round 4. But the offer still stands, if you ever want to throw me a vocal track it would take me about 15 minutes to clean it up. But it probably doesn't matter - what do I know - you've won one of these things as I recall, and that may have been during allergy season.
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Re: SpinTunes 18 Round 2 Challenge: 'Escape the Grid'

Post by Jim of Seattle »

owl wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 6:33 pm
Jim of Seattle wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 5:42 pm
Also, an interesting comment made by Owl in the podcast at around minute 41, regarding specificity of lyrics.
I think you probably mean the section around 1:02 where we’re discussing The Dutch Widows?
Oh. Yeah. That's weird.
Paused podcast
Looked at time marker
said 41:00
Yet.... going back now it it right where you said with the Dutch Widows. Anyway, yeah, that's where.
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