Pitch Correction Software?

[slowRodeo]

How do you feel about pitch correction software? Software created to change pitch, formant, timing, and length of notes. Is it musically ethical? You pretty much cant listen to a top 40 radio station without hearing it. I can hear it in some of the songfighters songs. What are your thoughts? And do you use it, why or why not?

[Eric Y.]

well that's a pretty broad question you've got there.
kind of like saying "how do you feel about reverb?"

there are so many different types, and different applications, and right and wrong ways of doing things, it's pretty much impossible to give an actual opinion based on what you are asking.

(although i'm sure people will try anyway)

[slowRodeo]

Im asking do you use it? Has it ruined music? Does it raise the bar higher than humanly possible for most artists?

[john m]

It was used partially without my consent on my band's cd (I would have much preferred to do the takes over until perfect, but you have no idea the kind of producer I was working with). It's not terrible in that kind of a context, where you're stuck with something mediocre and use it to make the song sound slightly less mediocre. Still, though, it's better just to get a good take.

[slowRodeo]

excluding popular music today, in the songfight arena where you only have a week how do you feel about fixing a little here and there. personally its tough for me because once you use and can recognize what it sounds like you can ALWAYS hear it and being a perfectionist who hates everything that comes out of my brain or mouth within a week i hear it. whether ive used it on my vox or someone elses. i dont know does anyone hear use it.
::cough:: shea ::cough::

i would always perfer a good take over fixing a mistake. personally.

[HeuristicsInc]

I've used it, because most people tell me my pitch sucks in their reviews.
Sometimes they tell me that after I used the pitch correction. Hmmm....
-bill

[slowRodeo]

what program did you use? or was it manually speeding up/slowing down certain words?

[Henrietta]

Part of your original question also hits on this whole recent lipsynching blowout. Do things like pitch shifting raise the bar? Do things like pre-recorded performances raise the bar? Well, yeah they do, but weirdly enough by lowering the musicianship bar first. Now that it's possible to achieve commercial success without even being a good musician.... it raises the bar on all the other parts of "the package" like hotness & youth. But I'm just talking about 'commercial success' here, which hardly translates into 'which would I rather listen to'.

[c hack]

No way. I don't even like quantizing. Or playing to a click track. Or even splicing takes. Though I do do the latter two. But I don't like it.

Way I see it, it's a great way to lose mojo. Unless it's done for effect, like that Cher song (or that Josh Woodward song).

[Phil. Redmon.]

Rad as an effect, especially formants, but lame as a crutch, or track medecine.

[Bell Green]

I used Antares autotune once, but didn't really like it. There was a bit of a learning curve which was distracting, and I could hear the results. It wasn't really satisfying. If you have the time it's better to repeat takes till you get it right. There is a technique that I use which is kind of like using a click track, but rather a pitch track. I record the melody that I need to sing with a guitar or piano and sing in unison with it. Of course the pitch track is muted in the final version.

There was one time I was working with this French girl who had an ok voice, but was a bit crap at pitching notes. When I sang with her, she was almost there. So I used my vocal as her pitch track and then she got a bit closer. Wasn't spot on, but a lot closer than when she did it on her own. With rock and pop music it doesn't have to be like opera, they are the folk or the lay musicians as it were, so there is license for the rhythm and pitch to be slightly off at times.

[jute gyte]

i've always wanted to play around with pitch-shifting software, but haven't seen any free stuff. if seems like it has lots of possibilities for fun abuse.

[jb]

The deal with Antares Autotune is that it works so well that it's tempting to just plaster a vocal track with it to make it sound exactly on pitch.

The problem with that is that it doesn't work *quite* well enough to be invisible. It's amazing that it works as well as it does, which creates such temptation. But if you just set Autotune to the key of your song and let it go, you'll wind up with a vocal track that sounds kind of inhuman. Not only does it wrench any intonation back in line, but it messes with your vibrato.

The way to use Autotune "ethically", and by that I mean so nobody bitches at you for it, is to just apply it to selected sections that are a hair off. Nudge things into place, so to speak. I don't have a problem with that, personally, because it's a legitimate way to use a take that is awesome but flawed. Or on backing vocals, to get harmony exactly perfect. In the case of backing vox, they start to sound almost like a synth, which is a sound I find enjoyable. Too bad I'm always too lazy to futz with Autotune. I don't even have it installed on this computer, although I wouldn't hesistate if I had a copy. I"m just sayin'.

It won't work if you're a quarter-tone off, though, unless you're really subtle, because large errors are where you get that "Autotune" sound. Kind of a little "flip". But you can use that "flippyness" intentionally if you want, as I did on my "Science" song. It lets you kind of imitate what they did in Cher's "I Believe", although they used a different technique on that song.

I hear Autotuned songs all the time on the radio. Makes me chuckle. Shania Twain's whole "Up!" album was Autotuned out the wazoo, and a LOT of those loud bands on "alternative" radio these days are completely Autotuned. So rough and raw, but exactly on pitch! If you know what you're hearing, it becomes aggravating. I really hope most people never learn what to listen for, or decide they just don't care, because it will ruin that music for them. Those bands are supposed to be "honest", so I find their use of Autotune a little dubious.

[slowRodeo]

Ive used melodyne (http://www.celemony.com) and its works really well. When i used it dont change the inotation at all. just the pitch. but perferably i would rather just get a good take.
at the website you can get a demo which you can export from for 30 days after that you have to run it through back through your sound card by playing it in melodyne and recording it with a recording program.

if you know what to listen for it does ruin alot of modern music. its sad. take a look at the difference between taking back sunday's first album and the second album. not only was the first off-key sometimes it was also brilliant and stylish. the second was perfect though. and complete crap.

[jb]

Ive used melodyne (http://www.celemony.com) and its works really well. When i used it dont change the inotation at all. just the pitch.

intonation = pitch

maybe you meant inflection?

[Caravan Ray]

I've never used it but I've got no problems with people who do. If you're a litte weak in a particular area and there's a tool that can help - go for you life and use it.

A crap song is a crap song, and all the knob-twiddling in the world won't really change that (unless it makes it an in-tune crap song). If knob-twiddling will genuinely improve a song - then twiddle away.

Purists who go on about it not being 'musically ethical' are full of shit. If it feels good - do it. And if the end product comes out good (even if only in your own opinion) then congratulations! You've made the world a slightly better place for somebody.

[slowRodeo]

inflection or inotation whatever it is that means "how you say the notes"

[slowRodeo]

all i know is i wish i had something for this song. actually i wish i could just come in and record and some one else rape my song. youll see youll see what i mean. just wait and listen.

[Mostess]

...just apply it to selected sections that are a hair off. Nudge things into place, so to speak. I don't have a problem with that, personally, because it's a legitimate way to use a take that is awesome but flawed.
...
It won't work if you're a quarter-tone off, though, unless you're really subtle, because large errors are where you get that "Autotune" sound.
...
I hear Autotuned songs all the time on the radio. Makes me chuckle.
...
Those bands are supposed to be "honest", so I find their use of Autotune a little dubious.

This is spot on (JB is usually spot on). I've played with Auto-Tune and have realized these surprising things from my reaction:

1) Now it sounds kinda cool (I really think so), but in 2 years, it will sound the way the CG "morphing" effect looks: out of date, trendy, cheap, cheesy, pointless, and artificial.

2) It only makes you sound good if you already sound pretty good, so it's not really a "gotcha!" game to realize someone is using it. I thought I'd feel superior to pop stars who rely on it, but I don't think it can really be relied on. I doubt any amount of Auto-Tune will get a sloppy singer onto the pop charts.

3) Now that I've used it, I recognize it. Now that I can hear it, I don't mind it. It's everywhere on the radio. Even country. I'm sure there are uses that escape my attention, and I applaud that. I'm sure there are no "false alarms" where someone is just a dead-on intoner and I blame the machines. But some part of my brain listens to new pop-songs on a hair trigger ("Was that one? I think that note was Auto-Tuned!"). That bothers me more than the fact that it was used, or how it generally sounds.

4) If I use it anymore, I'll limit what it does as much as practical. You can tell it to only correct certain notes, only starting a certain number of milliseconds after the attack, only if the note is a certain amount off-tune, etc. Leaving the attack untouched for at least 75ms is a must.

5) Vocal harmonies sound unearthly when tuned to equal-temperment. I never realized how much of a difference a few cents up or down makes. I've never analyzed my singing frequencies when harmonizing, but now I'm so curious. I now doubt the best-sounding bits line up with perfectly tuned piano keys.

6) The most useful effect for pitch correction remains re-recording the track by singing more in tune. It's just as dishonest as Auto-Tune (assuming the singer has an ear), but it's a hell of a lot prettier.

[HeuristicsInc]

6) The most useful effect for pitch correction remains re-recording the track by singing more in tune.

...if you're capable of singing in tune
-bill

[Leaf]

I've got no problem with using effects to change the sound of the "room" like reverb, delay... so even though I think autopitch stuff is cheating with a capital f that's just my opinion. In a perfect world, I'd have access to catherdrals and churches and cool rooms to record in, and a wicked top of the line kit... but I don't so I use that "artificial" stuff. So where do you draw the line? I think everything should be a captured performance, I rarely punch in stuff.. but I have, and will in the future if need be...and I've totally dug music that goes against what I choose to do cause it sounded appealing... so I think the whole thing boils down to your musician's ethics... and I don't think it matters a lick as long as the finished thing sounds great by the creator's definition, and then hopefully from an appreciate audience!!

[tonetripper]

I've got no problem with using effects to change the sound of the "room" like reverb, delay... so even though I think autopitch stuff is cheating with a capital f that's just my opinion.

It's like this:

Character rules. If it has character but is pitchy and the character can't be reproduced with good pitch autotune can be helpful, but only when used subtley. This is a last ditch attempt when tracking and not having time, say for a songfight cuz of life and babies and shit. Use sparingly.

Most of my favourite musicians, let's say Chet Baker (just as an instance) is pitchy all over the place, but the guy oozes personality. Could you imagine Chet getting auto-tuned? If he did I wouldn't like him and the personality would be lost.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is similar to JB's feelings on it, is that Autotune should be used to adjust uncomfortable moments that can't be pawned off as personality moments when the pitch is just out of control enough to find it unendurable. Good thing Lou Reed is a good poet cuz I go nuts listening to him for too long. Used sparingly or when trying to fix harmonies, which would prolly be masked by other vocal parts, is not so bad but can actually have a cool effect when used SPARINGLY. When you can hear it autotuning it sucks unless purposeful. Ain't nothing wrong with it in certain circumstances, but if you can do a better take with better feeling or the same with better pitch and loads of personality then screw Autotune. That's for kids. Lord knows I've been a kid at times.