Audio Interfaces 101

[JonPorobil]

All from this thread:

If you are still running things into your computer's built in sound card, you should think about upgrading to a simple external interface like the M-Audio Fast Track: http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/pr ... ku=703606V

Mic input minijack on soundcard = major janky, it's the hard truth.

The sound card is the weakest link in your current signal chain.

This was a side argument that I never thoroughly addressed in the original thread because I just wanted to get my already-existing setup working the way it used to. Mission accomplished.

Now. Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that I'm an idiot. Given that I'm an idiot and don't understand complex audio-fidelity-related concepts, can someone please explain why getting an external audio interface (which, I assume, would interface with the computer through its USB bus, rather than through its integrated sound card) will improve my recording quality. And by "why" I really mean "how." What does an external interface do that my sound card can't? What is my sound card doing so horribly wrong?

A few intangibles to bear in mind:
1.)I don't get paid a whole heckuva lot, and right now, most of my paychecks go towards paying off my student loans. I've spent about $138 in the last two weeks on music supplies. I can't afford to do that on a regular basis.
2.) Bearing fact #1 in mind, if I get an audio interface, that's something else I can't get. For instance, a mixer, or an actual instrument (I need a real bass and, eventually, a better guitar).
3.) I've had some serious problems with system rot in the last couple of years, so I'm currently recording onto an almost entirely blank partition. It's got Windows XP, Adobe Audition, a couple of plug-ins for the latter, and that's it. I can't even access the Internet from my Windows partition. Maybe it's vestigial paranoia, but I'm concerned about adding any USB device more complicated than my mouse.

I accept that an external audio interface will eventually be the road to take. I get that. The eventual likelihood is that I will one day own and use such an interface. But am I wrong to prioritize other gear first? Should I wait (as is my current plan) until I get a new computer for recording? On the other hand, if I get a new computer specifically for recording, and make sure to get one with a high-end built-in integrated sound card, will that negate my need for an external audio interface?

Should I let my next few songs speak for themselves before deciding?

[Caravan Ray]

I don't understand much of anything - but I bought one of these a few years ago:

http://www.tascam.com/products/us-122.html

and it just made everything so much easier.

I used to plug straight into the computer and it sucked. This Tascam thing is probably not the best of what it is - but I would place it (or something like it) very high on my priority list. I would rather have it and a crappy guitar and mic. Than a good guitar and good mic and nothing.

My unit is about 5 years old now - but it cost me about AUD$300 back then and has been worth every cent.

But on the other hand - if you have no problems with what you do now (I did - listen to the bad "hiss" on a lot of my early Songfights)) - there is probably no reason to change anything

[Reist]

I don't understand much of anything - but I bought one of these a few years ago:

http://www.tascam.com/products/us-122.html

and it just made everything so much easier.

Dude, how did you get yours to work? I bought one of those a few weeks ago, and I can't get it working for the life of me - it's crashed my computer a few times. And there's some horrible latency issues too.

I guess this thread showed up at just the right time for me too!

[Billy's Little Trip]

Jon, I agree with CR that I'd rather be playing a crappy guitar as apposed to not having a proper analog to digi interface. A good musician can make even the crappiest instruments sound good, but the recording process will make or break a finished song.

I understand your money issues and your process has been working for you. So I guess you have to ask yourself, self, is saving 50 bux really worth all the fucking hell I go through to record my music?

I also paid $300 for my Firebox (firewire, not USB) about 2 years ago, but it also came with Cubase LE which I use in every fight. BUT, I've seen my Firebox on ebay for under 50 bux. So I'd imagine the less expensive units are even less.

I happened to just think about something. I wonder if Lunk, with his fancy shmancy Cubase 4.0 thinks of me using Cubase LE the same way we think of Jon and his erector set recording setup?

[Lunkhead]

Ha ha. No, Cubase LE is cool. Whatever works for you, BLT. I only have issues with the DAW software people use if I have to try to collaborate with them and I have problems using their tracks. But then again, Ken and I both use Cubase and I still can't get my tracks exported correctly so they line up right in his projects, so I guess even using the same software doesn't always help. And if I had it to do over again I would have gone with Cubase Studio, as that would be more than enough for me and it's a couple hundred bucks cheaper.

As far as a USB audio interface is concerned, if you get one with mic and line (aka instrument) signal paths, you'll have the following advantages over your current system, Jon:

- XLR inputs
- phantom power
- mic preamps
- higher quality A/D conversion
- higher conversion bit and sample rates (though that's of debatable merit)
- simplified signal chain (fewer cables and adapters/etc. leading to less signal degradation)
- portable/reusable audio interface that may last you through a couple computers

[Billy's Little Trip]

But then again, Ken and I both use Cubase and I still can't get my tracks exported correctly so they line up right in his projects

Yeah, this is my only collaborating issue. I'm not 100% sure, but depending on how you export a file before sending it is the key. It seems that a lot of programs add a pause at 0 unless you tell it not to. Then it may not even be on your end, but on your collaborators end when they open the file, possibly. I don't know, I'm just thinking out loud as I type. I say this because I can export a file from Cubase, run it through GoldWave, format to MP3 and it will still line up if I take it back to my Cubase project. I'll send the MP3 off to Paco to play to, he'll play live to it, export without adding any space or pause and it's slightly off when I get it. So I have to use the first kick note to line up his first note.

[JonPorobil]

As far as a USB audio interface is concerned, if you get one with mic and line (aka instrument) signal paths, you'll have the following advantages over your current system, Jon:

- XLR inputs
- phantom power
- mic preamps
- higher quality A/D conversion
- higher conversion bit and sample rates (though that's of debatable merit)
- simplified signal chain (fewer cables and adapters/etc. leading to less signal degradation)
- portable/reusable audio interface that may last you through a couple computers

I'm not trying to be contrarian, and I know that you're a lot more knowledgeable about this than I am, but about these benefits:

XLR inputs - So I'm losing audio quality by using an XLR-to-phone jack cord as opposed to just plugging into an XLR input?

Phantom Power - I don't have a phantom-powered mic, and since I just dropped $100 on an SM58, I have no plans on buying one anytime soon.

Mic preamps - This is the strongest argument, I think. What would a mic-specific preamp do besides simply amplifying the signal like my current preamp does? Never mind for a second that my current preamp was designed for guitars; when I plug my mic into it, I just use the "dry" setting and boost the volume.

Higher quality A/D conversion - This one's Greek to me. What is A/D conversion, and how will improvement in its quality manifest in my music?

Higher conversion bit and sample rates - Let's not even bother with this one for now.

Simplified signal chain - I beg to differ.[<Mic --> Cord --> Preamp --> cord --> computer] is the same length as [Mic --> Cord --> Soundbox --> USB cord --> computer]. It's just the types of cords that differ.

Portable/Reusable audio interface that may last you through a couple of computers - My current setup has lasted through three computers (and counting!) and has served me well both in recording and live performance capacities. It's also analog, which means it doesn't interface with the computer directly (see point #3 in the original post). Plus, what happens when the new OS comes out and the drivers aren't compatible anymore? What about when USB gets phased out a few computer generations from now? I had a Cardbus audio interface a while ago, and got really upset when the card wouldn't fit in the new computer anymore.


Like I said, I don't doubt the merits of an external audio interface. I'd like to understand them better, but I don't doubt them. What I don't get is why everyone is acting like my sound card is going to give me leprosy or something. What is my sound card doing so poorly that it earns such derision from... well, everyone?

[HeuristicsInc]

Higher quality A/D conversion - This one's Greek to me. What is A/D conversion, and how will improvement in its quality manifest in my music?

That's Analog-To-Digital and represents the conversion of audio being represented as electrical signals (waveforms) to being represented as strings of ones and zeroes (high and low voltages). It would maybe result in better sound quality - some low-quality ones have zipper digital noise artifacts and suchlike.

Simplified signal chain - I beg to differ.[<Mic --> Cord --> Preamp --> cord --> computer] is the same length as [Mic --> Cord --> Soundbox --> USB cord --> computer]. It's just the types of cords that differ.

But you left out at least two adapters if I remember your posts right. More adapters is longer signal chains and more stuff that can go bad. And more places for stereo/mono mismatches and all that. And that creepy impedance thing too.

Portable/Reusable audio interface that may last you through a couple of computers - My current setup has lasted through three computers (and counting!) and has served me well both in recording and live performance capacities. It's also analog, which means it doesn't interface with the computer directly (see point #3 in the original post). Plus, what happens when the new OS comes out and the drivers aren't compatible anymore? What about when USB gets phased out a few computer generations from now? I had a Cardbus audio interface a while ago, and got really upset when the card wouldn't fit in the new computer anymore.

I don't see USB dying anytime soon, it is very ubiquitous for now. I don't think Cardbus really took off.
The main problem I used to have with a Soundblaster was the latency, which is why I switched to a "pro" soundcard (in between "Bad Attraction" and "Space Cadet" if I remember right, whoa was it better recording, so much so that I had to abandon work on BA).
-bill

[jb]

XLR inputs - So I'm losing audio quality by using an XLR-to-phone jack cord as opposed to just plugging into an XLR input?

Yes. A LOT. Think about it from a common-sense perspective. You're going from a cable that's got three big wires with three independent connections on the end, and you're shoving all of that into a 1/8" stereo hole. It really kills your fidelity. It'll introduce noise, reduce the amount of actual sound from your mic that gets into your computer, and just overall sounds like CRAP. Garbage in, garbage out.

Mic preamps - This is the strongest argument, I think. What would a mic-specific preamp do besides simply amplifying the signal like my current preamp does? Never mind for a second that my current preamp was designed for guitars; when I plug my mic into it, I just use the "dry" setting and boost the volume.

The preamp amplifies the signal, yes, but what's kind of important is the *way* it amplifies the signal. I don't know the technicalities-- maybe Adam will reply. Preamps do a lot more than just bump up the gain/volume.

Higher quality A/D conversion - This one's Greek to me. What is A/D conversion, and how will improvement in its quality manifest in my music?

This shouldn't be overlooked. A/D is "Analog to Digital" and it's the circuitry in your interface that converts your analog input into digital for your computer to manipulate. You may think that this is just a standard thing that computers can all do the same-- but that's not true at all. There is absolutely a difference between the A/D converter that was designed and built for recording audio and the one that's made to allow you to get your voice into the computer for Skype.

Like I said, I don't doubt the merits of an external audio interface. I'd like to understand them better, but I don't doubt them. What I don't get is why everyone is acting like my sound card is going to give me leprosy or something. What is my sound card doing so poorly that it earns such derision from... well, everyone?

[/quote]

Like I said above, man, garbage in garbage out. Using a creative labs sound card, even the highest-end model (I dunno what brand you have, I guess it's probably not creative but my point stands I think), will just not result in the same fidelity as an audio interface that's made for recording music. Everything on your "consumer level" sound card is made for a purpose-- and that purpose isn't recording music. It's playing soundtracks or CDs, using skype, etc. Every time you have to use an adapter to get your instrument in your computer, you're losing detail and fidelity that will only go downhill from there.

I know that maybe it seems like computer gear is computer gear, but where audio is concerned that's less than true. It's a little bit like the difference between my Martin guitar and my Cort. They both do the same thing, both made out of wood, both the same shape but man, you really would rather listen to the Martin.

[JonPorobil]

Thanks, JB.

[Sober]

XLR inputs - So I'm losing audio quality by using an XLR-to-phone jack cord as opposed to just plugging into an XLR input?

Yes. A LOT. Think about it from a common-sense perspective. You're going from a cable that's got three big wires with three independent connections on the end, and you're shoving all of that into a 1/8" stereo hole. It really kills your fidelity. It'll introduce noise, reduce the amount of actual sound from your mic that gets into your computer, and just overall sounds like CRAP. Garbage in, garbage out.

Yeah, I didn't want to nitpick in the other thread, but aside from the inherent electrical deficiencies in an XLR-1/4" cable, they're usually really poorly made (unless you get balanced ones (expensive and hard to find)) and generally pretty useless once they leave your home setup. In our recording "room," which is bigger than my apartment and full of every cable imaginable, we have a grand total of 2 of these cables (main control out -> big mackie monitors).

Ideally, you will one day own a big toolbox full of jacks and connectors, and a big reel of 16g cable. With a good soldering iron and some wire strippers, you'll never be without the right cable.

Portable/Reusable audio interface that may last you through a couple of computers - My current setup has lasted through three computers (and counting!) and has served me well both in recording and live performance capacities. It's also analog, which means it doesn't interface with the computer directly (see point #3 in the original post). Plus, what happens when the new OS comes out and the drivers aren't compatible anymore? What about when USB gets phased out a few computer generations from now? I had a Cardbus audio interface a while ago, and got really upset when the card wouldn't fit in the new computer anymore.

Most simple USB interfaces nowadays are plug-and-play, cross-platform badasses. They never need a driver update, and if they happen to need something, it's acquired with a quick google. USB has been around what, 10 years? With the proven ability to upgrade the platform without ruining compatibility (i.e. USB 2.0), and with the ridiculous prolific nature of USB, I doubt you'll kick yourself for a <$100 purchase within the next 10 years. I don't know that I ever saw Cardbus-powered mini-aquariums (or pregnancy tests wtf?).

Like I said, I don't doubt the merits of an external audio interface. I'd like to understand them better, but I don't doubt them. What I don't get is why everyone is acting like my sound card is going to give me leprosy or something. What is my sound card doing so poorly that it earns such derision from... well, everyone?

I understood this sentiment. Then I got an interface. The amount of quiet you'll be able to achieve without muting every channel will make you cry. You can't know the sensation until you have it and experience it, but the sheer, deafening silence is beautiful. Until then, you are stuck with bus noise - those weird buzzes, hums, and hisses that come from doing A/D conversion inside a metal box with fans, power sources, and gigs of porn.

Where did you buy your 58 from? If it was from Guitar Center, you can probably convince them to let you swap it for a cheap condenser (most states have health statutes preventing microphone returns, but the GC guys should be willing to turn your very low-profit 58 around for a medium-profit condenser).

I know I sound like a used car salesman/broken record, but please please believe me that USB interface + a cheap condenser will make you a much happier musician, and us happier listeners.

[JonPorobil]

Thank you for actually answering the question this time, Sober. I appreciate the explanations.

I didn't get the SM58 from Guitar Center, but do you really think I'd be better off with a "cheap condenser" as opposed to shelling out for a good condenser after saving my pocket money for another month or two?

[Sober]

Absolutely. The difference between crap condenser/good dynamic and crap condenser/good condenser is like crap piano vs. an organ when you really really need piano. Who cares how good that organ sounds, or that it's played mostly the same, it's not doing the job or making the sound you need it to make.

I think that analogy makes sense, at least it does with 3 hours of sleep. jb, do I get a "snob laureate" title?

[JonPorobil]

I disagree with your analogy, but let's not quibble here.

The question at hand assumes that I'm going to buy a condenser. The question, then, is: cheap condenser now (~before May), or high-end condenser later (~before 2010)? It won't be both.

[Sober]

Cheap condenser now. Get one used, and it'll retain its resale value if you happen to decide you want a better one later.

[Caravan Ray]

I don't understand much of anything - but I bought one of these a few years ago:

http://www.tascam.com/products/us-122.html

and it just made everything so much easier.

Dude, how did you get yours to work? I bought one of those a few weeks ago, and I can't get it working for the life of me - it's crashed my computer a few times. And there's some horrible latency issues too.

I guess this thread showed up at just the right time for me too!

I don't recall ever having any problems with it. I just plugged it in and it worked.

[Reist]

Dude, how did you get yours to work? I bought one of those a few weeks ago, and I can't get it working for the life of me - it's crashed my computer a few times. And there's some horrible latency issues too.
I guess this thread showed up at just the right time for me too!

I don't recall ever having any problems with it. I just plugged it in and it worked.

Oh ... hmm, did you have an interface before you purchased that one?

[Caravan Ray]

Dude, how did you get yours to work? I bought one of those a few weeks ago, and I can't get it working for the life of me - it's crashed my computer a few times. And there's some horrible latency issues too.
I guess this thread showed up at just the right time for me too!

I don't recall ever having any problems with it. I just plugged it in and it worked.

Oh ... hmm, did you have an interface before you purchased that one?

No - I plugged straight into the computer.

I vaguely remember I may have had to do a little bit of fiddling with computer settings way back when I first bought it and I was using a very old Windows machine and very old Cakewalk software - but no more that the constant fiddling I had to do with everything back then (the #1 reason I bought a Mac). Certainly no major problems. Whatever it was must have been spelled out in the Tascam Manual - because I'm pretty sure there were no real dramas. Certainly once I got it going - I have never had a drama since.

I do recall when I bought the Mac - there was zero fiddling - the Tascam worked straight away. I remember that making me very pleased.


One thought - you say you bought the same model as me?!? That is a pretty old model. I know that the software bundled with it does not work on my Mac because it is too old (OS 9). Could it be tha you are using a later version of Windows that doesn't like the old hardware?

[JonPorobil]

Well, you guys got to me. Just bought this. If I have driver issues, I'm taking it out on Sober.

[Billy's Little Trip]

Looks like a sweet unit, Jon. Just the fact that you have a proper interface is going to make you so much happier.

[JonPorobil]

Can I quote you on that?

[ujnhunter]

oH nO~! I had very bad problems with my Lexicon Omega... as have many other confirming the same problems I had on the Lexicon support msg boards...

edit: just realized that is the Lambada.. not sure if the same issues apply... but Buyer Beware!