Shopping for Studio Monitors

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Shopping for Studio Monitors

Postby Generic » Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:25 am

Before posting, I searched the "Help & How To" subforum for threads about studio monitors. I came across this one, which I'll use as a reference, but I thought it would be a good idea to start a new thread because that one is three years old and the products recommended in it have been discontinued.

I've been mixing on computer speakers for the entire time I've been doing home recording. Sometimes the speakers have been pretty good ones. At the moment, the speakers I'm using are dying (and were only midrange even when they were new).

A friend loaned me a set of Fostex monitors to do the last set of mixes for my last album, and after that level of detail and clarity, I really don't think I can go back. I'm sure it made a dramatic and positive impact on my mixes, and I'd like to get a decent set of my own. I don't know the exact model name of the set my friend loaned me, but they've long since been discontinued. I think a pretty good comparison point would be the set that fluffy bought and posted about in that prior thread (also by Fostex). Of course, those aren't available anymore either.

Ken suggested Equator D5s, but they're also discontinued.

So... Studio monitors. What's out there? What's reasonably-priced? What's good?
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Re: Shopping for Studio Monitors

Postby jb » Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:18 am

Consider this guy's advice: http://therecordingrevolution.com/2015/ ... challenge/

Basically he contends that it's not about your equipment, certainly not about your monitors. It's about using reference tracks, so that you know what a pro mix sounds like on your particular setup. Then you mix to achieve something similar to that reference track. You don't necessarily mix to make it sound good on your setup-- you mix to mimic the characteristics of that reference track.

He's not the only one who advises using a reference track, but he is the guy who is adamant about home recording being about technique over equipment and plugins.

So considering that, if you choose to take his advice, buy equipment that feels good to you to listen to for long periods, within your budget. I have a pair of Mackie active nearfield monitors that cost $150 each ($300 for the pair). And they are fine. Not gonna blow your mind, but they are fine.

If you have a power amp already, you can get passives. "Passive" just means they are speakers that don't have an internal power supply. That means you send your sound out of your computer/interface into a power amp, and the power amp supplies not only the sound but the power to your monitor speaker. You would probably think of most stereo speakers this way. "Active" monitors have not only a sound cable to your mixer/interface, but each monitor has its own power cable. Usually looks like a standard computer power cord.

If you get passive monitors, and you want to buy a power amp, remember that for home recording you don't need a lot of power. For home recording you really don't need more than 500 watts (2 channels, of 250w each, one channel goes to one speaker). And in fact the amp I used has only 100 watts-- 2x50. This is the kind of thing I've used in the past for a power amp: http://www.zzounds.com/item--SAMSA200

Passive monitors are a bit cheaper (not including the price of the amp), and since you keep the amp you can swap out the speakers or swap out the amp etc. Keeping in mind that speakers are rated to be able to handle only a certain amount of power so if you hook them up to a really powerful amp and crank it, you'll blow out your nice little speakers. That's common sense, but I'm saying it anyway. :)

I have used Tannoy PBM 6.5 passives in the past and liked them. For better or worse, I mixed my Albumfight on them and it came out OK even though I had NO IDEA what I was doing. You can get them on Ebay for pretty cheap: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R4 ... 5&_sacat=0

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Re: Shopping for Studio Monitors

Postby ken » Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:59 am

Generic wrote:Before posting, I searched the "Help & How To" subforum for threads about studio monitors. I came across this one, which I'll use as a reference, but I thought it would be a good idea to start a new thread because that one is three years old and the products recommended in it have been discontinued.

Ken suggested Equator D5s, but they're also discontinued.

So... Studio monitors. What's out there? What's reasonably-priced? What's good?


Equator D5s seem to still be available, but they cost $100 more.

http://www.equatoraudio.com/D5-Studio-M ... r-p/d5.htm
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Re: Shopping for Studio Monitors

Postby Generic » Fri Mar 27, 2015 1:17 pm

ken wrote:
Generic wrote:Before posting, I searched the "Help & How To" subforum for threads about studio monitors. I came across this one, which I'll use as a reference, but I thought it would be a good idea to start a new thread because that one is three years old and the products recommended in it have been discontinued.

Ken suggested Equator D5s, but they're also discontinued.

So... Studio monitors. What's out there? What's reasonably-priced? What's good?


Equator D5s seem to still be available, but they cost $100 more.

http://www.equatoraudio.com/D5-Studio-M ... r-p/d5.htm


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Re: Shopping for Studio Monitors

Postby Rabid Garfunkel » Fri Mar 27, 2015 2:54 pm

Tannoy Reveal 501a powered monitors are pretty bitchin', and now that they're no longer in production (in favor of the 502s).

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Tannoy-Reveal-501A-501-A-Powered-Active-Recording-Studio-Monitor-Speaker-Pair-/311324236170?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item487c5ed98a

Edited for accuracy.
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Re: Shopping for Studio Monitors

Postby Caravan Ray » Fri Mar 27, 2015 5:06 pm

I got these a while ago. Compact and inexpensive. Seem to work ok

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audi ... o-monitors

Must admit - still do most of my mixing in headphones - but they provide a different "point-of-view" in final mastering
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Re: Shopping for Studio Monitors

Postby Caravan Ray » Fri Mar 27, 2015 5:18 pm

jb wrote:Consider this guy's advice: http://therecordingrevolution.com/2015/ ... challenge/

Basically he contends that it's not about your equipment, certainly not about your monitors. It's about using reference tracks, so that you know what a pro mix sounds like on your particular setup.

JB


New thread on this:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=9646&p=192542#p192542
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Re: Shopping for Studio Monitors

Postby fluffy » Sun Mar 29, 2015 6:51 pm

I still love those Fostexes and it's a shame they're no longer made. I bet their newer models are just as good though.
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Re: Shopping for Studio Monitors

Postby ken » Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:03 am

You're in luck. Tannoy Reveal 402 are the SDotD today! Only $80 each!

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/stupid

Here's a review of them from Sound on Sound to give you more info:
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun14/a ... reveal.htm

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Re: Shopping for Studio Monitors

Postby fluffy » Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:37 am

Nice.

By the way, something that also helped my studio setup a lot was getting some acoustic foam. I put some behind my monitors, and also underneath, which helps to reduce a bunch of thuddiness. I found a 24-pack of 1'x1' tiles on Amazon for $46 (after shipping) and just attached it to various surfaces with double-sticky tape. It made a huge difference (as determined objectively by recording my setup using a couple of condenser microphones and checking their spectra). I also use one square in front of my file server which cuts down on background noise significantly.

So, I suggest being on the lookout for affordable acoustic foam. The particular pack I bought is no longer available, but there are several others of varying quality and price.
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Re: Shopping for Studio Monitors

Postby Generic » Mon Mar 30, 2015 2:06 pm

Still weighing my options on this, Though I know the SDotD presents a ticking clock here...

I've never heard of Tannoy before. The reviews are pretty positive, and a pair of those costs $160.

I have heard of Mackie, and a search through MF pulled up these, at $150 for the pair.

The big difference that I can see here is that the Tannoys would both be active speakers, independently controlled, while the Mackies are one active and one passive. All else being more or less equal, does having one passive speaker have a negative effect on the sound quality? If not, I think I'd prefer the active/passive pair, because with two independent monitors I would tend to worry about whether the volume controls were even with each other.

I Googled like crazy, and while there's a lot of writing about the difference between active speakers and passive speakers, I couldn't find much writing about pairs with one active and one passive.
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Re: Shopping for Studio Monitors

Postby fluffy » Mon Mar 30, 2015 4:42 pm

It's not that one is active and one is passive, it's that they're both active but the "active" one has both channels' amplifiers in them. The difference is basically the same as having discrete monoblock amplifiers instead of a single stereo amplifier. Audiophiles claim to be able to hear a difference. In reality there isn't going to be one, unless you're driving the circuits at the edge of their power capacity (in which case you're going to get much worse distortion and it's probably way louder than it needs to be anyway).

The M-Audio speakers I had before the Fostexes were like that, and they failed in a curious way where the channel for the "active" one blew out but the "passive" channel stayed working, but that's just a 50% chance of which one goes first, in the rare case that only one goes anyway. Arguably in a dual-discrete setup you'd be able to just replace one monitor if one dies but chances are you're going to replace them both anyway (since it's unlikely that you'll be able to buy another matching one of the same model what with them being on an annual planned obsolescence cycle like everything else nowadays, and if you could it's probably still going to be under warranty or whatever).

Anyway, given the specs I'd probably go with the Tannoys. The specs are mostly the same, EQ differences are mostly subjective and why we use reference tracks, and the Tannoys have a front-firing bass port which actually makes a lot of sense in a studio setting (although it makes me wonder if there's a reason why every monitor I've seen before is rear-firing, like is that just established convention or is there a real advantage?).

EDIT: Oh, and another advantage of dual-active instead of single-amp stereo is that you can adjust the levels independently, which is great for level matching and dealing with weird acoustic issues in your studio. Whenever I'm checking my setup I always adjust the levels separately using a pink noise generator and an SPL meter. Using single volume + balance is terrible for that, and the Mackies don't look like they even have a balance control.
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Re: Shopping for Studio Monitors

Postby Generic » Mon Mar 30, 2015 7:02 pm

All right, you've convinced me. I just sprung for a pair of Tannoys. I'll let you guys know how they work out!
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Re: Shopping for Studio Monitors

Postby jb » Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:44 pm

Good choice. I wouldn't have gotten those Mackies. The volume knob gimmick is dumb, and they look like a 5-blade razor or some shit. Not to mention the headphone jack on the front. That's not pro, that's feature-stuffing a product to cover up something cheap in the mix. (Mackie does, of course, have plenty of fine products. I would just bet that those aren't their best work.)

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Re: Shopping for Studio Monitors

Postby Generic » Mon Apr 06, 2015 9:26 am

I set up the new monitors over the weekend. One warning, in case anyone else is considering this model: they didn't come with full-size cables. Just one 1/8" audio "auxiliary" cable per monitor. I repurposed the guitar cables that I'd been using for stereo output from my keyboard. I'll probably replace them with something else in the near future, but I just wanted to get them up and running without another shopping trip.

They sounded a little tinny at first, but after a breaking-in period, everything sounds right. I'll let you know how it goes mixing a song on them! In the meantime, I have one other question/concern. I have a 1/4" cable running from my audio interface (FocusRite Scarlett 6i6) to each monitor. The Scarlett has a big ol' master volume wheel, and of course each of the monitors has its own independent volume control on the back. Right now, I've got the monitors set around 3/4 volume, and I'm using the volume wheel on the Scarlett to adjust the volume as needed. Is this okay for the speakers? Should I keep it lower? Is there any harm in turning the monitor volume all the way up, provided I keep the Scarlett's volume knob at a reasonably low level? I wouldn't expect it to have any discernible effect on audio quality, right?
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Re: Shopping for Studio Monitors

Postby Rabid Garfunkel » Mon Apr 06, 2015 9:42 am

Shouldn't have any harm, per se, but you're going to lose some wiggle room really fast on the listening end if Scarlett is your main volume control and your monitors are @10. Running the same (basically) setup here with the computer @ 10 -> interface controlling volume (like yours) -> monitors (Tannoy 501s) @ 50%, but I'm in a way small room currently. Same janky cable setup too ;-)
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Re: Shopping for Studio Monitors

Postby Generic » Mon Apr 06, 2015 9:54 am

Rabid Garfunkel wrote:Shouldn't have any harm, per se, but you're going to lose some wiggle room really fast on the listening end if Scarlett is your main volume control and your monitors are @10. Running the same (basically) setup here with the computer @ 10 -> interface controlling volume (like yours) -> monitors (Tannoy 501s) @ 50%, but I'm in a way small room currently. Same janky cable setup too ;-)


Cool, thanks for the advice. I'll leave 'em at 75% for now, and consider lowering if I can't get the precision I need.

And for the record, it's not that janky. At least I'm running appropriate cables from like-to-like audio jacks. It's huge progress from the days when I'd plug an XLR mic into an XLR-to-1/4" converter, plugged into a 1/4"-to-1/8" converter, to plug into my laptop mic input. 8-)
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Re: Shopping for Studio Monitors

Postby fluffy » Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:04 am

Generic wrote:I set up the new monitors over the weekend. One warning, in case anyone else is considering this model: they didn't come with full-size cables. Just one 1/8" audio "auxiliary" cable per monitor. I repurposed the guitar cables that I'd been using for stereo output from my keyboard. I'll probably replace them with something else in the near future, but I just wanted to get them up and running without another shopping trip.


I would never expect monitors to come with audio cables worth using. Fortunately, decent 1/4" cables are pretty cheap, and it looks like the Tannoys also take XLR. I wouldn't use the 1/8" aux/monitor link plugs on those monitors, incidentally.

What are you doing to break them in?
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Re: Shopping for Studio Monitors

Postby Generic » Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:20 am

fluffy wrote:I wouldn't use the 1/8" aux/monitor link plugs on those monitors, incidentally.


Neither would I. I'll keep those suckers in my car, so I can plug my phone in.

What are you doing to break them in?


I made sure the levels were moderate, then set up a random music playlist, left it running, and left the house for a few hours. The sound was noticeably better when I got back. They'll probably mellow out a little bit more over the next week or so, but I doubt I'll notice any additional change.
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Re: Shopping for Studio Monitors

Postby ken » Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:09 pm

I feel the need to remind/inform everyone that guitar cables and speaker cables are not the same thing and should not be used interchangeably.
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Re: Shopping for Studio Monitors

Postby Generic » Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:37 pm

ken wrote:I feel the need to remind/inform everyone that guitar cables and speaker cables are not the same thing and should not be used interchangeably.


Help me out, wise one. I've been mixing on computer speakers for more than a decade! What type of cables should I be looking for to connect the 1/4" outputs on my audio interface to the 1/4" inputs on my monitors?

(Relatedly, what's the risk in continuing to use the cables I had lying around, and how urgently should I correct this?)
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Re: Shopping for Studio Monitors

Postby ken » Mon Apr 06, 2015 1:21 pm

I was looking around for a link to support this claim. I think this issue is much more critical when running cable from amplifier to speaker. Less so when running line level gear. The premise is that guitar cable is for a fairly low output source (guitar pickups) and a power amp is sending a LOT OF JUICE that the cable can't really handle properly. This is a pretty good explanation: http://www.sonicsense.com/resourcecente ... ker-cables

You should be using balanced TRS audio cables between your interface and speakers.

Something like this perhaps: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/BP10
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