Song Fight! Is 20 Years Old!!!

Announcements of changes or happenings in the Song Fight universe.
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Re: Song Fight! Is 20 Years Old!!!

Post by Sober »

I think my reviews are pretty blunt, but I try to couch what I'm saying based on what I perceive to be the songfighter's intent, and it's always with a broader goal of improving songfight as a whole. I can't stress that last point enough. To quote MC Frontalot: What you wasting my time for? I don't get like, free internet; my bandwidth's limited. Improving the median songfight entry is good for SF listeners and contenders alike.

Blue could indeed be downright brutal, and we certainly went at it on dumbrella (jack too). But, as irwin said, he wasn't wrong. I think I've improved immensely over the past ~17 years, and I credit the harsh feedback I got here with much of that improvement.

I do think I was once too harsh with Marcus Kellis, because I didn't get it - I thought he was trolling. Then I saw him perform Moscow, Idaho live, and I got it. Love that kid.

I do wish there was as much social pressure to post reviews now as there was back in the dumbrella days. It used to be a faux pas to submit a song and not review. Now we're lucky to get more than 5 reviews on a fight with a dozen entries. The #1 reason I submit songs is to hear what you assholes have to say about it :P
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Re: Song Fight! Is 20 Years Old!!!

Post by Caravan Ray »

Lunkhead wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:04 pm
Flabby/farty bass
Can we have a thread for that? I often think my bass is flabby and fatty - and I screw everything else up trying to fix it. I’ll take this elsewhere and ask for tips
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Re: Song Fight! Is 20 Years Old!!!

Post by freff »

I really enjoyed reading this thread and learning more about the history of this place. I came here in (I think) 2009 after a FAWMer recommended it. FAWM feedback is so intentionally positive as to be absolutely unhelpful, and this place... let's say it's NOT that. :D

I think I'm basically a lurker who occasionally enters a Fight, but rarely do I not at least check out the site to see the title of the current Fight. I definitely come here when I'm stuck and need to get un-stuck. I've heard some amazing stuff on here, and things I wish I'd thought of.

Now that anyone with a computer can make music pretty easily these days, there is just a ton of noise competing to be heard. I think that's the main reason I keep gravitating back, because I know at least someone is listening. Even if the feedback is "THIS SOUNDS LIKE A DEMO."

It IS a demo, dude.

Best wishes and continued success to everyone associated with this place, especially those who keep it running.

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Re: Song Fight! Is 20 Years Old!!!

Post by sleepysilverdoor »

Caravan Ray wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:03 am
Lunkhead wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:04 pm
Flabby/farty bass
Can we have a thread for that? I often think my bass is flabby and fatty - and I screw everything else up trying to fix it. I’ll take this elsewhere and ask for tips
Ha, I'm the opposite. I always think my bass is too muddy and end up completely killing my tracks' low end as a result.
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Re: Song Fight! Is 20 Years Old!!!

Post by fluffy »

Caravan Ray wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:03 am
Lunkhead wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:04 pm
Flabby/farty bass
Can we have a thread for that? I often think my bass is flabby and fatty - and I screw everything else up trying to fix it. I’ll take this elsewhere and ask for tips
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=11841
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Re: Song Fight! Is 20 Years Old!!!

Post by frankie big face »

fluffy wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:43 pm
Yeah, and I've noticed a long-term tendency for people to try to be "nicer" by saying "sorry, not my thing" instead of being, like, "this sucks." Like, "sorry, not my thing" is such a non-review as to be useless.
This is precisely the reason I posted no real reviews for Nur Ein this year. I've adopted the say something nice or say nothing at all approach, which is absolutely useless if people want to improve, but I'm not sure they do. Plus, they vote in the final, so you don't want to piss them off too much!

I used to be pretty harsh with reviews. Part of me just grew up and realized different people like different things. I know I hurt some feelings and I regret that. I also know I helped some people get better, but it could have all been done more constructively.
Lunkhead wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:04 pm
I learned real quick that some things that I thought sounded fine in fact did not. Plugged-in acoustic guitar: just don't. Fake drums: avoid the uncanny valley. Singing: have good pitch or use autotune, or forget it. Flabby/farty bass: No. Muddy mixes: No. etc. etc.
I still remember you giving me a hard time about recording my acoustic guitar through the pickup for "Tracks for Future Practice." You have to remember that sometimes it's just about expediency in a weekly competition. But anyway, I disagree with you about autotune. I'm not saying I never use it but I'm generally okay with the amount and frequency with which I sing out of tune. That's rock and roll.
Lunkhead wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:22 pm
I generally think that too but for a while now I have started to think that may be a generational thing, and the whole "tearing you down to toughen you up" vibe I had/have with my siblings/friends was not something that Millenials/Z/etc. grew up with. Maybe some younger folks could weigh in about it (not to ask you to "represent your generation" but just to speak from your own personal experience).
This is absolutely true. And it has a lot to do with how parents parent and how teachers teach. Which is why I can't wait to fucking retire.
Paco Del Stinko wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:49 pm
I never got slammed bad by Blue, but can remember how "phew" it was when I got a positive comment on something I did. Shit, I even got to contribute a bass line to a Supercar song!
And that's how you know it was sincere. If he complimented everything, you'd never trust he was being sincere. I tell this to my students a lot.

So let's just all get back to posting old school reviews! It will be fun. There will be some tears, but in the end, Sam will be okay.
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Re: Song Fight! Is 20 Years Old!!!

Post by jack »

frankie big face wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:19 pm


So let's just all get back to posting old school reviews! It will be fun. There will be some tears, but in the end, Sam will be okay.
I'm in!
"I've never wished a man dead, but I have read some obituaries with great pleasure." - Mark Twain
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Re: Song Fight! Is 20 Years Old!!!

Post by AJOwens »

Caravan Ray wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:03 am
Lunkhead wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:04 pm
Flabby/farty bass
Can we have a thread for that? I often think my bass is flabby and fatty - and I screw everything else up trying to fix it. I’ll take this elsewhere and ask for tips
Do not feed your bass beans.
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Re: Song Fight! Is 20 Years Old!!!

Post by AJOwens »

I found out about Song Fight! from a co-worker who was married to a guy who was in a house band with the company I worked for. He didn't work for the company, so I saw him only at practices. After the band dissolved, I lost touch with him, but one day I asked his wife about him, in that polite office-conversation sort of way, and she said he was doing song fights. I said, WHAAA? and got the URL. At the time I was using something called Multiquence, a multitrack video and audio editor from Goldwave, out of St. John's, Newfoundland. Since then I've changed to Reaper, which is better suited to music production.

I have always valued the reviews. I used to wait for them breathlessly, and I would always conscientiously write mine; to me, it's what Song Fight! is all about. Since then I've become a bit slack about getting them done, although I do try to make an effort. It's not easy finding something personal and useful to say about twenty songs, especially when some of them are, shall we say, flawed. But I really try not to hurt people's feelings. If someone can't sing, I'll just say, "This could benefit from some judicious autotune," or "Your vocal style is eccentric in a way that may not be popular," or "If you're going for a dissonant vibe with your singing, you've achieved a definite level of tension," or some other passive-aggressive British Colonial thing. (Sorry.) But to come back to the other point, it's important to be personal and useful, to take each song seriously on its own merits, allowing for the technical or other limitations the artist may be confronting, and understanding what they are trying to do within their chosen method of expression.
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Re: Song Fight! Is 20 Years Old!!!

Post by AJOwens »

Lunkhead wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:22 pm
jack wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:06 pm
Real life good friends love to rip on each other (in a hopefully funny way) not flatter each other.
I generally think that too but for a while now I have started to think that may be a generational thing, and the whole "tearing you down to toughen you up" vibe I had/have with my siblings/friends was not something that Millenials/Z/etc. grew up with. Maybe some younger folks could weigh in about it (not to ask you to "represent your generation" but just to speak from your own personal experience).
I've noticed there are degrees of ripping, depending on your social group, the city you live in, or factors of that sort. In some places the teasing is mild, in the nature of affectionate swats; in others, aggressive to the point of insult.
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Re: Song Fight! Is 20 Years Old!!!

Post by Caravan Ray »

frankie big face wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:19 pm


I used to be pretty harsh with reviews.
I recall one of you first reviews for me when I first started here. You wrote (something along the lines of) “ there is absolutely nothing I can find to like about this”.

The memory of that is why I never wrote or recorded another song and what turned me into the bitter and twisted man I am today.

Though you weren’t as good as Richard Wreckdom. In my first SongFight he wrote “whatever it is in you that makes you want to make music - find it and kill it”
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Re: Song Fight! Is 20 Years Old!!!

Post by Caravan Ray »

AJOwens wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 4:04 pm
Lunkhead wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:22 pm
jack wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:06 pm
Real life good friends love to rip on each other (in a hopefully funny way) not flatter each other.
I generally think that too but for a while now I have started to think that may be a generational thing, and the whole "tearing you down to toughen you up" vibe I had/have with my siblings/friends was not something that Millenials/Z/etc. grew up with. Maybe some younger folks could weigh in about it (not to ask you to "represent your generation" but just to speak from your own personal experience).
I've noticed there are degrees of ripping, depending on your social group, the city you live in, or factors of that sort. In some places the teasing is mild, in the nature of affectionate swats; in others, aggressive to the point of insult.
I’ve just noticed there are a lot of soft cocks who whine when you tell them they are shit.
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Re: Song Fight! Is 20 Years Old!!!

Post by Caravan Ray »

Caravan Ray wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:24 am
frankie big face wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:19 pm


I used to be pretty harsh with reviews.
I recall one of you first reviews for me when I first started here. You wrote (something along the lines of) “ there is absolutely nothing I can find to like about this”.

The memory of that is why I never wrote or recorded another song and what turned me into the bitter and twisted man I am today.

Though you weren’t as good as Richard Wreckdom. In my first SongFight he wrote “whatever it is in you that makes you want to make music - find it and kill it”
And this is where we need to hear from Pepper Jane. I will send her a message for her comment - but i have a vague memory (all of my memories from this days are vague) of her telling me that she was sick of people saying they liked her songs because she thought they were telling her what she wanted to hear. So I suggested she try Songfight - where people will tell her she is shit if they think she is. (back in those days I was the only person to tell her she was shit because she kept playing that 4 non blondes song)

PJ...have I got this story right?
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Re: Song Fight! Is 20 Years Old!!!

Post by Caravan Ray »

jack wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:12 pm
frankie big face wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:19 pm


So let's just all get back to posting old school reviews! It will be fun. There will be some tears, but in the end, Sam will be okay.
I'm in!
Oh great. Some old wanker who hasn't done a song for 20 years is in.



BTW - Can we do Songfight live 21 in Santa Cruz? Assuming you diseased fuckers have sorted yourselves out by then?
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Re: Song Fight! Is 20 Years Old!!!

Post by PepperJane »

Caravan Ray wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:56 am
[quote="Caravan Ray" post_id=218732 time=<a href="tel:1593339875">1593339875</a> user_id=38]
[quote="frankie big face" post_id=218687 time=<a href="tel:1593206345">1593206345</a> user_id=29]


I used to be pretty harsh with reviews.
I recall one of you first reviews for me when I first started here. You wrote (something along the lines of) “ there is absolutely nothing I can find to like about this”.
[/quote]

And this is where we need to hear from Pepper Jane. I will send her a message for her comment - but i have a vague memory (all of my memories from this days are vague) of her telling me that she was sick of people saying they liked her songs because she thought they were telling her what she wanted to hear. So I suggested she try Songfight - where people will tell her she is shit if they think she is. (back in those days I was the only person to tell her she was shit because she kept playing that 4 non blondes song)

PJ...have I got this story right?
[/quote]

Yo, yeah, I still value real-time criticism. I still get too much sunshine and not enough wreck-dom. But then I also go to jam sessions that really aren’t my vibe, try to meld with their vibe, get more people who want to jump on the alternate-Pepper-Jane-train because I’ve bent to their blues-rock desires, thereby divesting from my actual essence and trying to acquiesce to theirs.

Am I off-topic? Usually. And that’s something I also appreciate correction from. But yeah, I prefer harshness to polite nothingness. Tho, it’s NOT PRODUCTION FIGHT okay? Haha

Dang I got slack with review writing too. Muchos apelagos
Everything is about perspective. :shock:
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Re: Song Fight! Is 20 Years Old!!!

Post by Caravan Ray »

PepperJane wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:20 am
Caravan Ray wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:56 am
[quote="Caravan Ray" post_id=218732 time=<a href="tel:1593339875">1593339875</a> user_id=38]
[quote="frankie big face" post_id=218687 time=<a href="tel:1593206345">1593206345</a> user_id=29]


I used to be pretty harsh with reviews.
I recall one of you first reviews for me when I first started here. You wrote (something along the lines of) “ there is absolutely nothing I can find to like about this”.

The memory of that is why I never wrote or recorded another song and what turned me into the bitter and twisted man I am today.

Though you weren’t as good as Richard Wreckdom. In my first SongFight he wrote “whatever it is in you that makes you want to make music - find it and kill it”
And this is where we need to hear from Pepper Jane. I will send her a message for her comment - but i have a vague memory (all of my memories from this days are vague) of her telling me that she was sick of people saying they liked her songs because she thought they were telling her what she wanted to hear. So I suggested she try Songfight - where people will tell her she is shit if they think she is. (back in those days I was the only person to tell her she was shit because she kept playing that 4 non blondes song)

PJ...have I got this story right?
[/quote]

Yo, yeah, I still value real-time criticism. I still get too much sunshine and not enough wreck-dom. But then I also go to jam sessions that really aren’t my vibe, try to meld with their vibe, get more people who want to jump on the alternate-Pepper-Jane-train because I’ve bent to their blues-rock desires, thereby divesting from my actual essence and trying to acquiesce to theirs.

Am I off-topic? Usually. And that’s something I also appreciate correction from. But yeah, I prefer harshness to polite nothingness. Tho, it’s NOT PRODUCTION FIGHT okay? Haha

Dang I got slack with review writing too. Muchos apelagos
[/quote]
Go home Pepper Jane.. You're drunk.
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Re: Song Fight! Is 20 Years Old!!!

Post by frankie big face »

Caravan Ray wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:24 am
frankie big face wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:19 pm


I used to be pretty harsh with reviews.
I recall one of you first reviews for me when I first started here. You wrote (something along the lines of) “ there is absolutely nothing I can find to like about this”.
That sounds pretty accurate. And look at you now! You're a Nur Ein champion! But seriously, you have gotten way better, so do those reviews help or hurt? Or doesn't it matter?

I just remember saying something really mean to Elysian Fields (or something similar) and I can't remember ever hearing from them again. That's what I now want to avoid even though back then, I was totally fine with it. (In the interest of full disclosure, the comment was something like "This is a perfect example of why not everyone should write songs." It was dickish and I own it. But it was also an atrocious song.)
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Re: Song Fight! Is 20 Years Old!!!

Post by Caravan Ray »

frankie big face wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:41 pm
Caravan Ray wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:24 am
frankie big face wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:19 pm


I used to be pretty harsh with reviews.
I recall one of you first reviews for me when I first started here. You wrote (something along the lines of) “ there is absolutely nothing I can find to like about this”.
That sounds pretty accurate. And look at you now! You're a Nur Ein champion! But seriously, you have gotten way better, so do those reviews help or hurt? Or doesn't it matter?
Absolutely help. It is why I kept coming back. One does need to be told if one is crap. And I was.
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Re: Song Fight! Is 20 Years Old!!!

Post by ujnhunter »

Happy 20th! Even though I've only been active for maybe half of that time... without SF! I'd never have written even half as many songs as I have. I also would have never been reacquainted with Mr. Mosquito who was my first ever musical collaborator and probably shaped at least half of my musical taste. I think we've come a long way from where we began. I'm excited for the next 20 years. Long may Song Fight! reign supreme! Thank you.
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Re: Song Fight! Is 20 Years Old!!!

Post by Paco Del Stinko »

I remember reading, many years ago, about duels. Were there more than one? What happened? Any stories, old timers?
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Re: Song Fight! Is 20 Years Old!!!

Post by Spud »

We lived for the reviews. We took them seriously. We had a list on our whiteboard, with every single reviewer and what their beef was with us, and we vowed to get a good review (or at least a passable) one, from each and every one of them. One of Frankie's first reviews of us was "buy a three-prong adapter". We did. His reviews got better. MC Frontalot told us to "eat a cheese wheel and choke on it" after hearing our entry to the "A Thousand Swords" fight. Our very next entry was about choking on a cheese wheel, and we won him over, sort of. The point is that these ultra-negative reviews were USEFUL. We never took them personally, because they were correct, but we took them to heart. Eventually, everyone on the white board had a red line through their name, meaning that we had gotten at a minimum a non-negative review from them. I wish I had a picture of that white board, but you know who you are.
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Re: Song Fight! Is 20 Years Old!!!

Post by Paco Del Stinko »

Great stuff, Spud. Any chance of an Octothorpe 20th anniversary nugget? Blue plate special?
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