November 15th, 2007

[Billy's Little Trip]

Call of the roll:
Nice sunny day in So Cal
Just watched last weeks South Park that I Tivo'd
It's the one about the game Guitar Hero
Very funny, a must see
"Real guitars are for old people"

Question for a Thursday:
Does it bother you to see new technology that allows a person with no musical ability, able to push buttons and drag and drop samples and make awesomely dynamic music, as well as voice programs and call themselves musicians?

I know a lot of musicians here have practiced for years, paid their dues and some are actually educated and are music teachers, etc.

My answer to QOTD:
I'm mixed on this, maybe that's why I asked it. First off, I LOVE technology. In the past year, I've become a digital fan and it opened a whole new world for my music creations and production right from my little studio, slash, guest room, slash, musical masturbatorium, slash, hideout.

Pros:
#1. On one hand, the ability to make music with no instrument playing ability gives people a chance to create music that would otherwise never have been heard.
#2. Just because a person can't play, doesn't mean they can't write and compose.
#3. It may lead a person into learning how to actually play an instrument when they realize it's very cumbersome to take a laptop and a set of speakers to a bonfire to have a group sing along to Koombiyah. (sp)

Cons:
#1. It belittles the talents of seasoned musicians that painstakingly create all of their own music.
#2. It frustrates a person learning to play an instrument when his idiot buddy is whipping out these outrageously dynamic productions in about 10 minutes. It could cause a person to give up on learning to play.
#3. The person that can't play or sing starts to believe that he/she is actually a great musician. Ashley Simpson just popped into my head for some reason.

Anyway, there's a few thoughts to get this started.

[fluffy]

Editing and arrangement IS a legitimate musical skill. It belittles the skills of a producer to say that it's not "real." It still takes a good ear and a talent to know what musical elements go together to be able to make music that way.

It used to be that the role of songwriter and the role of performer was completely separate. That's why music has separate sets of rights for the composition and the performance. Elvis never wrote his own songs. (Neither does Ashley Simpson, for that matter.) He was a talented performer, but that doesn't mean he'd have been able to put a song together to save his life.

[Reist]

Question for a Thursday:
Does it bother you to see new technology that allows a person with no musical ability, able to push buttons and drag and drop samples and make awesomely dynamic music, as well as voice programs and call themselves musicians?

Paris Hilton comes to mind. Back in the day, image WAS important, but it wasn't all that mattered. Sampling bothers me a lot, but I can stomach it occasionally. Pitch-correcting software is a no-no for me - it causes a lot of people to get lazy with their vocals.

It's important to note though, that if you want truly 'awesomely dynamic music' as you put it, it's easier to just play the music yourself (unless you're not a musician at all, in which case - why are you making music?). Drum machines bother me a lot, and even though they make drumming easier for non-drummers, it's simply not as good as having a real drummer. Some might claim that a good drummer is just as good as a drum machine, but that's crap - a good drummer is far better than a drum machine. No programming, and WAY more groove.

[Rabid Garfunkel]

That's entertainment, man.

I was searching futilely online for an MP3 to link to of the song by Colorblind James Experience titled, strangely enough, That's Entertainment which is now stuck in my head.

If you enjoy the final product, does the source really matter? Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go listen to Octothorpe's Cur.

And to answer your question (I got caught up in the kvetch): No.

[jb]

Is Paris Hilton's music good? Do you really think so? It's in tune and recorded well... but I don't think it's very good.

You could always pay for good craftsmen to polish the turd of your crappy music.

http://tinyurl.com/yq3jlj

When you're cooking with shit, it doesn't matter how good a chef you are.

[fluffy]

Since when does Paris Hilton have anythign to do with music?

[Rabid Garfunkel]

The Colorblind James Experience's That's Entertainment

[Billy's Little Trip]

If you enjoy the final product, does the source really matter?

That really is what it comes down to. Maybe a musician is bothered, but if the general public likes it, so be it.

Unfortunately the media, record companies, etc, have their ways of brainwashing the general public into thinking something is good. I do think most people know if they like something, no matter how hard the record label tries to force it down our throats. But when they use all of the popular elements of the last big hit that the general public likes and a cute girl on the mic, it doesn't matter if the song is talking about world issues or painful pimples, they will make you buy it.

[Rabid Garfunkel]

Had a few riffs, but I'm running on empty, so raise your hand if you're sure. This is a hard one, it's built ford tough. Knowledge is power, reading is fundamental, and knowing's half the battle. Consuming media's output, do you ever have that less than fresh feeling? Shout it out. Fight for your right. Just say no. Do it once a week. Become an army of one.

We are the world, it's the real thing, accept no substitutes.

Planned obsolescence is the price we all pay. Buy Nothing Day's coming, it's ten o'clock, do you know where your kids are?

We are the general public, dude. Saying us & them in different terms don't make it any different. Though I do like the turn of phrase "painful pimples"

[Albatross]

For the record, "Musical Masturbatorium" and "Painful Pimples" would be great band names.

[Billy's Little Trip]

I like to think of myself as the specific public.

[fodroy]

qotd: Yes.

[No Horse Town]

Doesn't bother me. Talented musicians make plenty of bad music, too. (Yngwie?) As I see it, any instrument is cheating in one way or another: using tools to make sounds that you can't create just with what god gave ya. If someone thinks the final product is good (even someone whose taste is utterly despicable to "real" musicians), then whoever used those tools did their job. Including Paris Hilton or Ashley Simpson. Of course, it could be argued that their fans don't really dig it for the music as much as for the cult of personality, but who's really immune to that? I'd like to think that I am, but I dunno, we're all probably brainwashed one way or another.

Sorry to any Yngwie fans lurking about - of course it's just my opinion.

[erik]

I remember an article I read once about an annual contest to find the best recipe for somethingerother. Years and years ago, they said that they had a stipulation that all recipes had to be from scratch. And then at some point, they had to loosen their rules, because so many recipes of the day were incorporating already-prepared items into the recipe (and I'm not talking about pre-baked pie crust, I'm talking like an ingredient is "smashed oreo cookies" or "1 box instant pudding". At some point, serious cooks had to admit that maybe it was okay to take shortcuts. Nowadays no one really thinks twice if a cookie recipe includes Rice Krispies. It's totally okay.

I think music is the same way, in that user-friendly prepackaged materials have been slowly infiltrating the scene, and it's hard for some people to know how to treat people who use them. It really does come down to whether the person can use them effectively, that is, can they make something that sounds good? Someone can take Garageband and make something that sounds like a bunch of unchanged preset loops stitched together, or they can make a NIN album. (your lame joke can go here) It's like a really good chef could probably go into my kitchen right now and make something bad ass, but all I can manage to do is starve or eat soup.

Personally, what bothers me more than people who can't play any instruments making music (which bothers me not at all) is fricking self-absorbed singers who insist on writing some of the lyrics to a song that would be a hit no matter what, thereby talking half of the writing credit (and making them think they're a songwriter).

[Ross]

Question for a Thursday:
Does it bother you to see new technology that allows a person with no musical ability, able to push buttons and drag and drop samples and make awesomely dynamic music, ...?

This question makes no sense - if they are making awesomely dynamic music, then they have musical ability.

So, then, what bothers me?

a) New technology that allows people with no musical talent to create sounds that are not awesomely dynamic, but make them feel like they are making good music.

b) People with great technical ability on an instrument who interpret that as being a good musician.

Generally, however, I am in favor of as many people as possible enjoying learning about and making music. this does not necessarily mean I enjoy hearing all of it - but everyone should get to enjoy trying to make it.
_________________________

Roll call: I felt really tired today - halfway through the day I was discouraged to realize it was Thursday - it sure felt like Friday.

I played Monopoly last night with the new new "speed die" for faster play. Interesting and fun.

[Rabid Garfunkel]

"Speed die"? Please tell me more... One more day to a week's "vacation", Ross. Be strong!

Aside, Mz Conduct just brought home a birthday bottle of Glenlivet, so I suspect I'll be moving my posts to "Drunken Posting" or whatever-the-hell that thread is in Monkey Business.

[Billy's Little Trip]

The thing I like about new technology for easy music making, is that it allows more people that maybe weren't privileged enough or ever in a place in life to learn to play an instrument, to now let their creativity loose.

Ross, to the question you didn't understand, as I worded it poorly. I mean someone that drags and drops front to back sound loops on to a track. The sound loops are already very dynamic and have no need for EQ, FX, etc.
But as mentioned, the ability to arrange a good song that people want to listen to, is a skill on it's own. So in that case, the ability to play an instrument doesn't matter.

Spoon is a good example. He has an amazing way of putting together sound sample, or whatever they're called, and make awesome music that I enjoy. His layout is completely different than the way my brain would ever think to do it, but it's a very listenable arrangement. As Mr Garfunky mentioned. "If it sounds good, isn't that the point?" ...or something to that effect.

[fluffy]

The thing I like about new technology for easy music making, is that it allows more people that maybe weren't privileged enough or ever in a place in life to learn to play an instrument, to now let their creativity lose.

But <em>everyone</em> loses.

(sorry, just had to go for it)

[Billy's Little Trip]

One other thing I forgot to mention, and I don't think anyone else did either.
For musicians that DO in fact play an instrument, but want to compose full songs, it is such a great tool to have drum machines/loops, bass, horns, etc, at your finger tips. Or a great singer that can't play an instrument, but can write and sing beautifully.

[Billy's Little Trip]

The thing I like about new technology for easy music making, is that it allows more people that maybe weren't privileged enough or ever in a place in life to learn to play an instrument, to now let their creativity lose.

But <em>everyone</em> loses.

(sorry, just had to go for it)

HaHa, that is one typo that can take on a whole new meaning, lol.
....good pwnage by the way.

[Rabid Garfunkel]

Or a great singer that can't play an instrument, but can write and sing beautifully.

Check out Morbid Morgan's first sally (and win) into the Songfight mix for an example of that. Sure, it was a minor friend flood, but not so much that the rest of the community cried foul.

And yes, I busted her hump severely, believe you me.

[Ross]

One more day to a week's "vacation", Ross. Be strong!

week?