Florida!

Lord of Oats · Post by **Lord of Oats** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:14 am

Our primary is today. We're bigger than any of the states that have gone so far. Fear us!

Hillary is supposed to win here, but the Republican race is some kind of four-way who knows thing, between McCain, Huckabee, Giuliani, and Romney.

Giuliani has probably killed his chances in Florida by ignoring the other states. He had a big lead here until he got last place everywhere else. Genius.

I'm still trying to make up my mind, here. I think I'll sleep on it and vote last minute.

Hoblit · Post by **Hoblit** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:29 am

and I'll be voting Clinton so all of ya'll can just go ahead and get it out of your systems here in this thread. Berate me, yell at me, ask whats wrong with me... tell me how awful SHE is and how great HE is... I'm not going to argue...I'm just gonna let ya'll vent some more.

Lord of Oats · Post by **Lord of Oats** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:07 pm

I somehow sucked up all my idealism and voted McCain.

Sober · Post by **Sober** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:37 pm

Hoblit wrote:and I'll be voting Clinton so all of ya'll can just go ahead and get it out of your systems here in this thread. Berate me, yell at me, ask whats wrong with me... tell me how awful SHE is and how great HE is... I'm not going to argue...I'm just gonna let ya'll vent some more.

LOL @ Florida's Democratic primary not counting.

Lord of Oats · Post by **Lord of Oats** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:58 pm

Isn't the Democratic party being a little strict about that?

Hoblit · Post by **Hoblit** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:21 pm

Sober wrote:
Hoblit wrote:and I'll be voting Clinton so all of ya'll can just go ahead and get it out of your systems here in this thread. Berate me, yell at me, ask whats wrong with me... tell me how awful SHE is and how great HE is... I'm not going to argue...I'm just gonna let ya'll vent some more.
LOL @ Florida's Democratic primary not counting.

Yeah, real f$#~%n funny.

roymond · Post by **roymond** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:48 pm

Sober wrote:LOL @ Florida's Democratic primary not counting.

Yeah, well, Florida has always had a difficult time with the counting.

anti-m · Post by **anti-m** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:08 pm

roymond wrote:
Sober wrote:LOL @ Florida's Democratic primary not counting.
Yeah, well, Florida has always had a difficult time with the counting.

KaZING!

Lord of Oats · Post by **Lord of Oats** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:39 pm

No, honestly. It's ridiculous for the DNC to punish the Democratic voters in Florida for an action taken by the Republican-controlled Florida Legislature.

But hey, one less victory for Hillary is good in my book.

JonPorobil · Post by **JonPorobil** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 11:01 pm

Agreed. So Billary took it, even though it doesn't count, and McCain won on the Republican side, which is probably the last nail in Guliani's coffin. I can't believe Rudy was so dumb. But it's nice to have some semblance of stability.

I'm very very curious, considering how many other Democrats Hillary isolated during the course of this race, who she's looking at for potential running mates...

Hoblit · Post by **Hoblit** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 5:11 am

Just so you guys understand... it may not COUNT ...but don't think the fact that its a 'Hillary' state is beyond the influence anyways.

I had heard something about this a while back when they were moving the date up...I hadn't realized what a mess it turned into until I read Sober's post.

Sober's post exemplifies exactly why its a mess. Its pitting Democrats against each other here and turning the independents away, ultimately resulting in fewer democrat votes. Hence, really effing funny ya'll. HILARIOUS even. (if that is even a pun, it certainly is NOT intended)

Caravan Ray · Post by **Caravan Ray** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 5:34 am

Do any of the candidates - from any team - have any policy about the men still illegally imprisoned at Guantanamo Bay.

The one single illegal detainee to face any sort of trial has now been a free man for several weeks - and the world hasn't ended.

What about those other ~400 men illegally imprisoned. Do they still make news over there?

Which candidate has in their policies investigating and prosecuting those responsible for torturing prisoners? The USA will never be taken seriously again until that happens.

Sober · Post by **Sober** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 5:44 am

Hoblit wrote:Just so you guys understand... it may not COUNT ...but don't think the fact that its a 'Hillary' state is beyond the influence anyways.

I had heard something about this a while back when they were moving the date up...I hadn't realized what a mess it turned into until I read Sober's post.

Sober's post exemplifies exactly why its a mess. Its pitting Democrats against each other here and turning the independents away, ultimately resulting in fewer democrat votes. Hence, really effing funny ya'll. HILARIOUS even. (if that is even a pun, it certainly is NOT intended)

Hold on there, son. I'm not anti-Hillary in the LEAST. In fact, if McCain gets the GOP nod, which he probably will, I'm pulling for Hillary, as she is much more likely to win against him than Obama.

Hillary's insistence upon campaigning in FL and MI, where the primaries didn't actually matter, is smart for a couple of reasons:

It gives her the opportunity to give a victory speech. Even if you didn't really win anything, it builds confidence in your campaign when you say "WE WON." Think songfight.

GENERAL ELECTION. These two states are likely battleground states that will look well upon Hillary's efforts in the primaries. Where she has a strong chance in the general, Obama would struggle to grab those electoral votes.

Anyway, I said that just to rile you up, because you tried to rile everyone else up with your original post.

Besides, I'm just bitter that my state's primary will never count for anything.

jimtyrrell · Post by **jimtyrrell** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 6:14 am

Caravan Ray wrote:Do any of the candidates - from any team - have any policy about the men still illegally imprisoned at Guantanamo Bay.

The one single illegal detainee to face any sort of trial has now been a free man for several weeks - and the world hasn't ended.

What about those other ~400 men illegally imprisoned. Do they still make news over there?

Which candidate has in their policies investigating and prosecuting those responsible for torturing prisoners? The USA will never be taken seriously again until that happens.

Couldn't agree with you more. But then, I voted for Kucinich. *shrug*

Hoblit · Post by **Hoblit** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:22 am

Caravan Ray wrote:Do any of the candidates - from any team - have any policy about the men still illegally imprisoned at Guantanamo Bay.

Wha? Who are these people? What is this Guantanamo Bay? It sounds like a nice water front community. Is that where we have that military base in Cuba? Are those cigars still illegal here? How's Castro doin' anyway? We haven't seen him in a while. Oh yeah, and they got hit by a hurricane last year, I hope they're all right. I hear Havana is nice this time of year. Hopefully I'll get to visit some day.

Sober wrote:Anyway, I said that just to rile you up, because you tried to rile everyone else up with your original post.

? ... ? ... I was doing exactly the opposite of that. Good lord.

jimtyrrell · Post by **jimtyrrell** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:36 am

So, Edwards is out.

This statement from his campaign manager following the Nevada caucus is interesting:

"The race to the nomination is a marathon and not a sprint, and we're committed to making sure the voices of all the voters in the remaining 47 states are heard. The nomination won't be decided by win-loss records, but by delegates, and we're ready to fight for every delegate. Saving the middle class is going to be an epic battle, and that's a fight John Edwards is ready for."

I don't know what bothers me more; the fact that I can't believe what I hear, or the idea that since he's dropping out, it doesn't matter whether anything he said was genuine.

Fucking politicians.

Hoblit · Post by **Hoblit** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:45 am

jimtyrrell wrote:So, Edwards is out.

This statement from his campaign manager following the Nevada caucus is interesting:

"The race to the nomination is a marathon and not a sprint, and we're committed to making sure the voices of all the voters in the remaining 47 states are heard. The nomination won't be decided by win-loss records, but by delegates, and we're ready to fight for every delegate. Saving the middle class is going to be an epic battle, and that's a fight John Edwards is ready for."

I don't know what bothers me more; the fact that I can't believe what I hear, or the idea that since he's dropping out, it doesn't matter whether anything he said was genuine.

I'm no political scientist but I imagine he is actually jumping up and down going "ooH Oooh PICK ME PICK ME!" to the eventual nominee for the VP position on the big ticket.

Realizing his chances against the big two he's saving investors (and himself) a lot of money while sweeping possible delegate votes to whomever in hopes that the winner remembers him kindly.

jimtyrrell wrote:Fucking politicians.

Exactly.

Lord of Oats · Post by **Lord of Oats** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:48 am

BUT if he would have waited until after Super Tuesday, he could have had a bunch of delegates. There are no winner-take-all states in the Democratic party. Clinton and Obama probably would have been in dead heat, or at least close enough that neither could have won without his delegates. He would have been in a position to pick the winner. Why give that up?

Me$$iah · Post by **Me$$iah** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:16 am

Edwards and now hot off the press Gulliani is also out

the numbers start to thin

anti-m · Post by **anti-m** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:23 am

Caravan Ray wrote:Do any of the candidates - from any team - have any policy about the men still illegally imprisoned at Guantanamo Bay.

Hey Ray -- <a href="http://www.cfr.org/publication/14751/ca ... here</a>'s a pretty good summary article breaking down where all the candidates stand on the clusterfuck that is GitMo

Basically, democrats pretty universally oppose the existence of GitMo.

Unfortunately, I don't know that anyone has come forward with a clear stance on punishing the torturers.

Sober · Post by **Sober** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:47 pm

Hoblit wrote:
Sober wrote:Anyway, I said that just to rile you up, because you tried to rile everyone else up with your original post.
? ... ? ... I was doing exactly the opposite of that. Good lord.

So you're arguing that this:

Hoblit wrote:and I'll be voting Clinton so all of ya'll can just go ahead and get it out of your systems here in this thread. Berate me, yell at me, ask whats wrong with me... tell me how awful SHE is and how great HE is... I'm not going to argue...I'm just gonna let ya'll vent some more.

..is NOT exactly what you said it was? Or that it isn't the opposite of what you said?

Caravan Ray · Post by **Caravan Ray** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:56 pm

Hoblit wrote: I'm no political scientist.

Of course not - nobody is. Politics isn't a science.