Decision 2008!

Paco Del Stinko · Post by **Paco Del Stinko** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 9:11 am

Heeerrrre's Ralph! Nader, that is.

erik · Post by **erik** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 10:02 am

Fuck Ralph Nader.

jimtyrrell · Post by **jimtyrrell** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 10:14 am

Okay, but fuck the two party system too.

mkilly · Post by **mkilly** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 10:14 am

erik wrote:Fuck Ralph Nader.

seconded

Paco Del Stinko · Post by **Paco Del Stinko** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 10:57 am

I agree with all three of you. Why does he do it, ego? Even as entertainment value, it's annoying. Who's next: Bloomberg, Lou Dobbs? There's still a whole bunch of crazy between here and November.

erik · Post by **erik** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 12:21 pm

jimtyrrell wrote:Okay, but fuck the two party system too.

Sure, fuck the two-party system. But voters who support some weaksauce, quadrennially-motivated, deadbeat-dad-style wannabe-politician don't do anything to fight the two-party system.

Caravan Ray · Post by **Caravan Ray** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 8:08 pm

erik wrote:
jimtyrrell wrote:Okay, but fuck the two party system too.
Sure, fuck the two-party system. But voters who support some weaksauce, quadrennially-motivated, deadbeat-dad-style wannabe-politician don't do anything to fight the two-party system.

Your problem is your first-past-the-post voting system. Until you change to preferential voting - you are stuck with your two-party system. A third party will never emerge with that type of voting.

jimtyrrell · Post by **jimtyrrell** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:22 am

True, Erik. As much as the system needs changing, a vote for Nader doesn't strike me as a constructive move here. (I did vote for him in 2000, actually.) He really seems like a hobbyist this time around.

Hoblit · Post by **Hoblit** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 7:25 am

jimtyrrell wrote:True, Erik. As much as the system needs changing, a vote for Nader doesn't strike me as a constructive move here. (I did vote for him in 2000, actually.) He really seems like a hobbyist this time around.

Yeah totally, and thats just making me sick. 'Hobbying' with an important election.

WeaselSlayer · Post by **WeaselSlayer** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:14 am

Why does everybody think this election is important again?

JonPorobil · Post by **JonPorobil** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 3:19 pm

Well, insofar as every United States Presidential election is important, this one is. But more so in this case because of its historic value. First of all, it's the very first time we'll ever have either a black man or a woman as the nominee of a major party. Second of all, the fact that this is a race "without incumbent," since Dubya can't re-run and Cheney issued a Sherman Statement a while back; this is the first presidential race in a long time that's completely up in the air. Finally, it's important because we're deciding the successor to the president that many historians consider the Worst Ever, the person who's got perhaps the biggest mess in history to clean up. There are a lot of issues that Bush pointedly refused to resolve (the deficit, the economy, the Iraq war) that his successor will have to deal with. So yeah, this is a pretty important election.

HeuristicsInc · Post by **HeuristicsInc** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 4:26 pm

either that or bush will claim he can't leave office because of terrorists, call a state of emergency, and finish turning the place into a police state.
-bill

Hoblit · Post by **Hoblit** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:48 pm

HeuristicsInc wrote:either that or bush will claim he can't leave office because of terrorists, call a state of emergency, and finish turning the place into a police state.
-bill

I never say this out loud anymore.

WeaselSlayer · Post by **WeaselSlayer** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:55 pm

For all the talk of hope and change, I imagine we're facing just more bullshit, legislated morality, and war. Black guy, female, or status quo old white guy all ends up about the same. I mean Obama has all the smiles and little people stories, and a distressingly downplayed desire to pursue other military actions in the Middle East (Iran or Pakistan will be invaded under Obama, I can almost guarantee it). Hillary has demonstrated her love of peace many times over (ha). And McCain is just a continuation of this administration's nonsense. Hope for change of the people's choice to blah blah fuck that. This is the same old with a new face.

roymond · Post by **roymond** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 7:50 pm

WeaselSlayer wrote:For all the talk of hope and change, I imagine we're facing just more bullshit, legislated morality, and war. Black guy, female, or status quo old white guy all ends up about the same. I mean Obama has all the smiles and little people stories, and a distressingly downplayed desire to pursue other military actions in the Middle East (Iran or Pakistan will be invaded under Obama, I can almost guarantee it). Hillary has demonstrated her love of peace many times over (ha). And McCain is just a continuation of this administration's nonsense. Hope for change of the people's choice to blah blah fuck that. This is the same old with a new face.

I won't agree with you on the specifics but over all I do. At least Obama is breaking some of the trends we've had the past 19 years. I too am afraid our "system" has become gummed up with special interests and the military machine is as much a part of the bureaucracy as the IRS. But change doesn't move fast and the biggest hope for anything like change is him and his (at this point still perceived) potential to bring some fresh air. Apathy never gets more done than the alternative. Stop whining and start thinking.

Hoblit · Post by **Hoblit** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:22 pm

roymond wrote:
WeaselSlayer wrote:For all the talk of hope and change, I imagine we're facing just more bullshit, legislated morality, and war. Black guy, female, or status quo old white guy all ends up about the same. I mean Obama has all the smiles and little people stories, and a distressingly downplayed desire to pursue other military actions in the Middle East (Iran or Pakistan will be invaded under Obama, I can almost guarantee it). Hillary has demonstrated her love of peace many times over (ha). And McCain is just a continuation of this administration's nonsense. Hope for change of the people's choice to blah blah fuck that. This is the same old with a new face.
I won't agree with you on the specifics but over all I do. At least Obama is breaking some of the trends we've had the past 19 years. I too am afraid our "system" has become gummed up with special interests and the military machine is as much a part of the bureaucracy as the IRS. But change doesn't move fast and the biggest hope for anything like change is him and his (at this point still perceived) potential to bring some fresh air. Apathy never gets more done than the alternative. Stop whining and start thinking.

I lean closer to the first quote, while the second quote is still very admirable. I'm definitely not in the same extreme mindset as me$$iah but I do agree with heuristics.

I'll go out on a limb here and say whats really on my mind. I think it's all on the verge of being 'too late'. If something doesn't change (and Roy:) FAST then I do believe we are in the midst of something terrible. (queue melodrama) I DO fear GWB will try to hang on to his presidency under some kind of emergency power , war/terrorist related. SHORT OF THAT, McCain will more than likely win the presidency. He's WORSE than a continuance of the current hoopla, he's even more pliable for molding. (and more likable to boot). Obama isn't doing anything NEW. I wish I could believe that. He's just doing what Hillary's husband was doing back in HIS first run. VERY CHARMING. Hillary, just as bad as the next. I'm not putting stock in her to make anything better. I'm hoping against hope that she can sustain the sinking ship above the waves just a little bit longer.

More melodrama. When did the folks who lived through the second world war know that they were living a time of historic significance? Or did they ever know? How will we know that we are living in a time of historic significance? Or are we even? Its pretty obvious (to me anyways) that what is happening around us right now will have a lasting impact on the next generation, even if its the next generation that will be making the history. Economy (domestic and national) ? War (our two fronts possibly expanding. Other countries at war) ? Controversial elections (ours, and others) ?

Look, I'm not that smart... yet it seems to me that all of this is so blazing obvious that it hurts my head with frustration when I see it being ignored.

WeaselSlayer · Post by **WeaselSlayer** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:56 pm

roymond wrote:Apathy never gets more done than the alternative. Stop whining and start thinking.

My goal isn't to get anything done, I just think it's bullshit that everybody acts like they're contributing to some great sea change. It's not likely to get better before it gets much much worse. Waah.

Märk · Post by **Märk** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 11:05 pm

You people need to defect to Canada before it's too late. We'll give you a job and welfare benefits till you get on your feet again. You, uh, just have to leave your guns at the border.

WeaselSlayer · Post by **WeaselSlayer** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 11:26 pm

Then FUCK YOU!

Billy's Little Trip · Mon Feb 25, 2008 11:47 pm

I just want peace and love.
BLT 2008

jimtyrrell · Post by **jimtyrrell** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 3:32 am

Thanks for the offer Mark, but two things will need to happen before I move to Canada. First, our dollar needs to get back on top so that I win on the exchange. Second, I'd need global warming to bring your country up by at least 20 degrees. It's cold enough where I am!

I liked what I saw of the small towns in Quebec over the summer, though. And I swear that I doooon't have a guuuun....

Caravan Ray · Post by **Caravan Ray** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 4:41 am

jimtyrrell wrote: And I swear that I doooon't have a guuuun....

The last bloke that said that was apparently lying