Classical

the Jazz · Post by **the Jazz** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 1:27 am

As in, classical, baroque, romantic, contemporary, neoclassical, you know... the pop culture definition of classical. Since there's a jazz thread now.

I recently listened to and much enjoyed the Chopin Preludes... and started checking out some of Beethoven's other symphonies (i.e. not the 5th). Mucho gusto the 1st and the Allegretto movement of the 7th.

And then there's this dude Milhaud who wrote this Suite Francaise - I'm not so wild about some of the movements, but the slower ones are very nice. Very lush and emotional settings.

And then there's this one called "Ma Mere L'oye", I can't remember the composer (a short google later - Ravel it is). Very moving.

Poor June · Post by **Poor June** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 5:12 am

neoclassical... that's pretty much sort of like a steve vai sort of genre right?

steve vai had some amazing guitar songs... his more classical influenced stuff was deffinately his best... but in my oppinion he probably has to be one of the greatest guitarists of all time...

it's been a long time since i've listened to classical i should... i love classical music...

Post by jb » Sat Dec 04, 2004 1:37 pm

Poor June wrote:neoclassical... that's pretty much sort of like a steve vai sort of genre right?

steve vai had some amazing guitar songs... his more classical influenced stuff was deffinately his best... but in my oppinion he probably has to be one of the greatest guitarists of all time...

it's been a long time since i've listened to classical i should... i love classical music...

Please don't mention Steve Vai and classical music in the same sentence. I mean, jesus. God.

Steve Vai is not neoclassical. Jesus christ, get Steve Vai out of this thread, omgwtf.

Neoclassical: http://www.hypermusic.ca/hist/twentieth3.html

Think Stravinsky.

Don't confuse the colloquialism "classical music" with the entirety of what I was taught to call "art music". In discussions of "classical music" you should note that there's a specific period called the "classical period", which is used to describe the work of Mozart and Haydn and their contemporaries, as well as the very early works of Beethoven. Beethoven's 9th Symphony is frequently used to denote the border between the "classical" period of art music and the "romantic" period, which contains dudes like Schubert and Chopin and Berlioz.

So "neoclassical", like the link says, is referring to the "classical" period of art music, not classical music in general.

Poor June · Post by **Poor June** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 1:47 pm

yea that's pretty cool... there was an 80's guitarist that did do some classical pieces on electric... i can't remember who it was i think it was ratt's guitarist...

Gazelles · Post by **Gazelles** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 3:55 pm

The 1812 Overture is pretty awesome. Tschaikowsky is pretty awesome. Also the new piece that i'm playing is 'Apres un Reve' by Faure and holy shit is it beautiful. Most certainly worth checking out.

c hack · Post by **c hack** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 6:07 pm

john cage. OMFG "In a Landscape" rocks my world.

Post by jb » Sat Dec 04, 2004 9:59 pm

Some of you may not know this, but I went to college for music. I've got a mostly unused bachelor's in Music Ed sitting in a drawer somewhere at my parent's house. But anyway, that makes me feel like I'm qualified to recommend some classical music, if anybody's interested in my opinion. Here's some stuff I like:

Beethoven- 7th symphony, 2nd movement. It's famous 'cause it's awesome

Beethoven - 9th symphony, 4th movement. Also duly famous awesomeness.

Dvorak - 9th/5th symphony (they are the same thing, a numbering hijink). Basically the whole thing is awesome. Parts of it are heartwrenchingly beautiful, and other parts are just the kind of thing that make it impossible for me to stay inside.

Dvorak - 8th symphony. Called "the cello symphony". Fairly awesome.

Charles Ives - pick something. I played this one "Toccata" of his once, with a horrible symphony, and it was STILL awesome. I've never found that piece again, but I'd love to. But most of his stuff is weird and wild and difficult to enjoy but worth the effort.

Debussy - A piece for solo piano called "Pour Le Piano" is wonderful. Basically any of his solo piano work makes my heart melt, but I especially love that one.

Chopin - The etudes are great, but I could grab any old $5.99 CD of Chopin piano music and be really happy.

Stravinsky - Firebird and Rite of Spring. Music to sit on your couch and listen to on headphones while doing nothing else.

Bartok - Music for Strings, Percussion, and Celeste. Too great, also not for background music. Difficult, sometimes harsh, a good example of that modern music that old people love to hate.

Hanson - Romantic Symphony. OMFG.

Hanson - "Song of Democracy". A choral setting of a poem (I think it's by Whitman), has some harmonic progressions that give me goose bumps. We sang it in college and I've loved it ever since. There's a recording of it and the Romantic symphony out there, with The Man conducting it his own self!

Respighi - "Pines of Rome" is great.

Faure - Elegie. Probably the most beautiful 'cello solo ever written. It can, if you're not careful, reduce you to tears.

Gorecki - Third Symphony. The recording with Dawn Upshaw is, again, rightfully famous. Sometimes it's tempting to look down on the bestseller as something dumbed down for the plebes. But in classical music, I don't think that's the case. The famous stuff is famous because it's great. This particular piece is so gorgeous, and sad, that it makes me want to just die right on the spot it's so beautiful. And sad.

Bizet - Carmen. So much great music in that opera. I don't care for opera, but the best bits from Carmen are lovely. And there's that Carmen Fantasy for violin by somebody I can't remember, which is also great.

Puccini - "Tosca" - specifically the end of the, I think it's 2nd act. I sat in a pit once for this opera, and that spot in the score is just breathtaking.

Copland - "Appalachian Spring" - again, famous because it's fantastic. Try to find a small ensemble recording. It was originally written for a 13-piece ensemble. We played it a year or two ago locally, for a dance school.

Vivaldi - random concerti grossi - they're pretty much all the same, but a CD of his non-4-seasons stuff is good for the blood

Vivaldi - The Four Seasons - "Summer". The rest of them don't turn me on, but Summer is way fun.

Somebody mentioned Tchaikowsky's "1812" - if you can find the version that has the men's chorus on the front, THAT is fucking AWESOME. My roommate in college had that recording, and we listened to it all the time.

Steve Reich - I like most of his stuff. It's an acquired taste, like Bartok, but if you can get into it, it makes great driving music. I particularly like "Six Marimbas" and "Music for 18 Musicians".

Ney Rosauro - Marimba Concerto - fanfuckingtastic. Another thing from college that I glommed onto and never let go.

Guess that's enough for now.

Leaf · Post by **Leaf** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 11:51 pm

That 's a pretty sweet list JB..

Now, since we're outing ourselves in the classical thread, I feel compelled to mention that I spent my first years (8-13 years old) in a Boys choir... I don't think anyone here knows this... anyway, all I listened to was classical music, between the CBC, my mom and the choir. The choir was cool at the time, we toured Europe, the States, Canada, did albums (aCTUAL VINYL!!!) ... although I really know nothing technical about it at all! I love that genre, although, it's pretty damn broad, calling stuff "classical"...that spans hundreds of years... but I'm gonna check out some of those pieces that I haven't... my favourites were more standard things like Four Seasons, Handel's waterworks ??(Is that right?...been awhile) anyway... classical is great brain music... ya know what I mean?

NOTE: Poor June.... quit dissing the classical!!!!

the Jazz · Post by **the Jazz** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 12:53 am

Copland - "Appalachian Spring" - again, famous because it's fantastic.

And hard as fuck to play. There's actually a section in the Clarinet part that just is not possible to play, at least not at any reasonable tempo... I mean literally, the way the clarinet is built doesn't allow it... I dropped that class like a hot potato. And enjoyed the recital a lot better from the audience than I would have from the stage.

Also I just remembered the Grand March from Aida, that's another favorite of mine.

jack · Post by **jack** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 1:05 am

the soundtrack for "fantasia" is like a mini classics greatest hits.

beethoven's ninth is a classic (no pun intended)
prokofiev's classic symphony i love (probably from watching fantasia)
and of course eine klein nachmusik

Adam! · Post by **Adam!** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 1:59 am

Wow, perfect thread timing. I heard part of the 1812 Overture yesterday, and it reminded me that classical music can ROCK like nobodies business. I'm interested in making a mix-CD of the 'heaviest' classical music, for driving and pissing off friends with. I'm not a purist -it doesn't actually have to be from 1812- so I'll take any suggesting including living composers.

Can anyone suggest between 1 and 12 classical pieces that really make you sweat?

Eric Y. · Post by **Eric Y.** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 3:51 am

funny you should mention, puce. i have a classical compilation called heavy classics. (incidentally this was the first CD i ever bought myself, back when CDs were new (to me)). several of the songs on there i'm not so sure about, but here are some highlights:

wagner - ride of the valkyries
khatchaturian - sabre dance
tchaikovsky - 1812 overture (finale)
borodin - prince igor (from poloveysian dances)
*holst - mars, the bringer of war (from the planets suite)
*prokofiev - the montagues and the capulets (from romeo and juliet)
stravinsky - infernal dance (from the firebird)
mahler - symphony no.1 ("titan") mvt.4

those, particularly the two i marked with an "*" are pretty damn heavy. for the complete track listing (or to check out the awesome album cover) : http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=43:26

Post by jb » Sun Dec 05, 2004 4:31 am

Puce wrote:Can anyone suggest between 1 and 12 classical pieces that really make you sweat?

I'd suggest Penderecki's "Threnody to the Victims of Hiroshima". Or maybe Gorecki's "Amen". Or some big ol' weird-ass modern pieces for organ. Or those Vivaldi concerti grossi I recommended. Or the Vivaldi double-cello concerto in G minor. That's pretty frenetic and minor. I guess you could call it "hard". Or maybe "Night on Bald Mountain" from Fantasia would appeal to metalheads.

I think metal fans would be most likely to enjoy romatic-period stuff though. Big, long, ponderous things that you feel like you have to sit through but don't really want to.

Eric Y. · Post by **Eric Y.** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 5:19 am

my personal preference is for romantic-period stuff, particularly eastern european and russian.

some of my favourites include:
tchaikovsky (1812 was mentioned, but i prefer some others, i.e. "cappricio italien" and "francesca di ramini")
dvorak (can't go wrong with the "new world symphony" (or as JB mentioned, also called his 5th or 9th depending on who's counting) -- the whole thing is good, but particularly the fourth movement "allegro con fuoco")
rimsky-korsakov ("cappricio espagnol" is one of my all-time favourites, but he's also got "scheherazade" and who can forget "flight of the bumblebee")
mussorgsky (i'll second JB's recommendation of "night on bald/bare mountain" for classically-inclined metalheads; also "pictures at an exhibition" has some fantastic moments)
liadov - "fragment de l'apocalypse"
stravinsky - "the firebird" and "rites of spring" have both been mentioned here i believe
holst - "the planets suite" although he's english and a bit more modern, this is one of my favourite classical compositions of all time, non-stop awesome from beginning to end.

jimtyrrell · Post by **jimtyrrell** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 6:41 am

I am looking forward to researching some of the pieces listed here, because I know little of classical music, except of course for the few themes that turn up in commercials and Bugs Bunny cartoons, and even then, rarely by name.
Musically, I'm largely self-taught. I took one class on basic music theory in high chool that was half a semester. I participated in the High School chorus, and even made All-State three times. But we were better known for our SATB renditions of 'What I Did For Love' and 'Every Breath You Take' than anything classical. I'm sure we did a few madrigals and stuff, but I don't remember much.

That said, here's a list of what I've been exposed to that has really moved me:

Beethoven - There's a piece that's the second movement of a piano concerto or something, and it's referred to as the Pathetique. The version I'm most familiar with is from the movie A Boy Named Charlie Brown, and it's wonderful. Some dude named Serkin did a recording of it that was not as good, to me anyway.

Vaughan Williams - I thought the Sea Symphony was pretty cool. I taped part of it once from my sister-in-law's CD collection, and listened to it a lot.

Joe Jackson - Okay, discount it if you will. But he did an album called 'Will Power' that was, I guess you'd call it Orchestral, which I'm sure differs from Classical in very specific and important ways that make little difference to my plebian ear. I took great inspiration from the music there.

Bach - The first Fugue in that book of his was the first thing I managed to figure out by reading sheet music. Took forever, but I got it. As a result, it's the first time I sat at a piano and sounded like I knew what I was doing. God bless the man for being accessible, at least until page three.

Hmm, that's all that comes to mind. I mean, I'm familiar with themes made popular in TV and movies, like that Valkyries song from Apocalypse Now, or the Barber of Seville, which is probably an opera. Oh dear, I'm sure I've convinced you all how little I know, so I'll stop now.

Eric Y. · Post by **Eric Y.** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 6:53 am

jimtyrrell wrote:Vaughan Williams - I thought the Sea Symphony was pretty cool.

if you like RVW, i highly recommend his "fantasia on greensleeves" ... from what i gather, he was mostly known for creating orchestral works that were heavily influenced by or based on old english folk songs, and this is probably one of the better known melodies i that department; his fantasia adds a pretty lush instrumentation... good stuff.

Gazelles · Post by **Gazelles** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 9:04 am

jb wrote:Some of you may not know this, but I went to college for music. I've got a mostly unused bachelor's in Music Ed sitting in a drawer somewhere at my parent's house. But anyway, that makes me feel like I'm qualified to recommend some classical music, if anybody's interested in my opinion. Here's some stuff I like:

Dvorak - 8th symphony. Called "the cello symphony". Fairly awesome.

Chopin - The etudes are great, but I could grab any old $5.99 CD of Chopin piano music and be really happy.

Stravinsky - Firebird and Rite of Spring. Music to sit on your couch and listen to on headphones while doing nothing else.

Hanson - Romantic Symphony. OMFG.

Faure - Elegie. Probably the most beautiful 'cello solo ever written. It can, if you're not careful, reduce you to tears.

Somebody mentioned Tchaikowsky's "1812" - if you can find the version that has the men's chorus on the front, THAT is fucking AWESOME. My roommate in college had that recording, and we listened to it all the time.

JB you are my favorite. A special amen to the Romantic Symphony and Elegie.

Mogosagatai · Post by **Mogosagatai** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 11:12 am

Mozart's "Overture" from Die Entfuhrung von Nuremburg. Here's an excerpt from it, translated into text:

BANG! BANG! BANG!! ba-da-BANG! BANG! BANG! ba-da-BANGBANGBANGBANG! feedle-deet-deet-deet-deee, feedle-deet-deet-deet-deet-deee, dee-dee-BAM! badabadabadabadaBAM!! badabadabadabadaBAM!!! badabadabadabadaBAM! BAM! BAM! chickaBANG! chickaBANGabadaBANG!!!!

I vote it "best song to get in a fist fight to."

jute gyte · Post by **jute gyte** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 1:03 pm

Puce wrote: Can anyone suggest between 1 and 12 classical pieces that really make you sweat?

i second jb's recommendation of penderecki's 'threnody for the victims of hiroshima'. i would also recommend the 'pasacaglia - allegro moderato' section of his 3rd symphony. totally hateful and brooding.
also as jb said, mussorgsky's 'night on bald mountain', meant to convey a witches' sabbath, is heavy as hell. and as tviyh said, some of 'pictures at an exhibition', especially 'catacombs' and 'hut on fowl's legs' (about baba yaga), is good for that too.
mozart's requiem is brutal, but more in the doom metal sense than the 'make you sweat' sense.

the Jazz · Post by **the Jazz** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 12:09 am

jute gyte wrote:i would also recommend the 'pasacaglia - allegro moderato' section of his 3rd symphony. totally hateful and brooding.

Hahahahah... best classical music comment EVAR.

Interesting when you think about how you will almost NEVER hear classical musicians talk about how much they like death metal.

Caravan Ray · Post by **Caravan Ray** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 12:57 am

Puce wrote:Wow, perfect thread timing. I heard part of the 1812 Overture yesterday, and it reminded me that classical music can ROCK like nobodies business. I'm interested in making a mix-CD of the 'heaviest' classical music, for driving and pissing off friends with. I'm not a purist -it doesn't actually have to be from 1812- so I'll take any suggesting including living composers.

Can anyone suggest between 1 and 12 classical pieces that really make you sweat?

Greig's Peer Gynt Suite can rock - I think it's the Hall of the Mountain King bit I'm thinking of. And Orfs' Carmina Burana - that gets used in a lot of movies and coffee ads etc.

I probably should add that everything I know about classical music (not much) I learnt from television commercials.

Poor June · Post by **Poor June** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 2:46 am

Leaf wrote: NOTE: Poor June.... quit dissing the classical!!!!

i'm not meaning to diss... i love classical... but like most things... i rarely remember names... so it's hard for me to bring up a valid artists... without lookin' 'em up... and i'll have to do that later...