Are you f**king kidding me?

[fluffy]

"Quality time" is what it's all about. It's fun to do, and engages the mind (and in some cases the body, like with DDR and Wii Fit).

[jb]

Sitting in a chair and playing 15 hours a day. Not everyone has that addiction, but it seems to be effecting the youth of America in epidemic proportions.

You should swear off cnn.com. I did several years ago, and I don't have to see, process, and reject this kind of bullshit fearmongering any more. The world isn't so simple as they need to make it appear in order to increase their page views.

Anything in excess is damaging. Hence the adjective "excess". Too much dieting is damagin Too much exercise is damaging. Too much sun is damaging. Being out in the wind and rain, walking, mountain climbing, skiing, talking, dancing, it's all bad for you if you do too much of it.

I think there must be some innate human need to see things in black and white. To identify heroes and villains even amongst our everyday activities. I wonder how that helps the strong survive.

[fluffy]

Well, it certainly has helped my grandpa's girlfriend make a huge mess of things.

[Adam!]

Why not make this same thread for the Television forum? Or the Movie forum? Or the Book forum? I don't see how video games are any different than tv, movies, reading fiction, listening to music, board games / tabletop games, or low-impact sports like golf. They are fundamentally escapist entertainment done for enjoyment, and none of them produce any kind of tangible physical reward for time invested (perhaps aside from hand-eye coordination type things); however, all these activities have mental and social aspects and benefits that cannot be ignored. There are people who think that the video game, as a medium, has inherently less value than these other mediums I've listed, but when pressed they have trouble saying why (well, in fatty's case, that's probably because of his thyroid cancer).

[john m]

Why not make this same thread for the Television forum? Or the Movie forum? Or the Book forum?

Or the SongFight! forum.

[Billy's Little Trip]

"Quality time" is what it's all about. It's fun to do, and engages the mind (and in some cases the body, like with DDR and Wii Fit).

I remember seeing an exercise bike type thing that powers up the video game. So a teenage chubby kid that sits on the Wii 15 hours a day, has to pedal to power it up. Great idea.

[fluffy]

It would be pretty difficult to play most Wii games while trying to balance on an exercise bike.

[Billy's Little Trip]

What if it had a power storage type thing, like a battery. A certain amount of pedaling or treadmill to store a certain amount of power to go for a certain amount of time. Like, 30 minutes of tread mill gives you 2 hour of game power.

If I designed it, I'd make it so it blows up if you try to plug it into the wall outlet. Damn, that a good idea.

[Billy's Little Trip]

Why not make this same thread for the Television forum? Or the Movie forum? Or the Book forum? I don't see how video games are any different than tv, movies, reading fiction, listening to music, board games / tabletop games, or low-impact sports like golf. They are fundamentally escapist entertainment done for enjoyment, and none of them produce any kind of tangible physical reward for time invested (perhaps aside from hand-eye coordination type things); however, all these activities have mental and social aspects and benefits that cannot be ignored. There are people who think that the video game, as a medium, has inherently less value than these other mediums I've listed, but when pressed they have trouble saying why (well, in fatty's case, that's probably because of his thyroid cancer).

Not to discount your examples, but they have benefits that "most" video game don't offer. I say "most" because of wii fit, which isn't really a game or Rock Band because it's a multi player team effort.
First off, golf gets you outdoors walking. Escapist entertainment? Sure, but it's a physical sport with human to human social benefits......even if you play poorly, lol. TV, keeps us up to speed on currant events. Watching movies could be considered art in motion, but could be considered a waste of time. Reading is fundamental even if it's fiction. People don't stare at the wall for 15 hours listening to music. Listening to music generally involves doing something while listening, like, driving to "work", etc. Board games generally involve face to face human interaction, and tabletop games have physical benefits.
Playing World of Tardcraft = fail

[fluffy]

Are currant events things that are of importance to small dried Mediterranean grapes?

Also, are you really this retarded?

[Billy's Little Trip]

Oh, you thought I meant things occurring at the present time? I read the newspaper for that. I'm very interested in the happenings of currants for my thriving jam business and I thank the invention of the television for that. Mario Cart just doesn't quite give me the info I need.

Are you really that retarded?

[fluffy]

I was making fun of your misspelling, and also commenting on how you keep on trying to stir up a hornet's nest for no good reason and make very strained comparisons between different forms of entertainment where you focus on the good parts of some and the bad parts of others.

Also, your comeback is basically "NO U R."

[Billy's Little Trip]

Well, thank you for explaining that. I had absolutely "no" idea that you were commenting on my spelling of current. Did you think I really have a currant jam business?

Also, this thread is for debating the likes and dislikes of video games. It is to enlighten opposing members on both sides.

It's only a hornet's nest when people can't have a civil debate and talk like adults. I think video games make you angry.

No, U R.

[Adam!]

What fluffy said, but because I feel like typing

I say "most" because of wii fit, which isn't really a game or Rock Band because it's a multi player team effort.

Why is WiiFit not a game? If you only define games as activities that have no benefits, then your argument boils down to a semantically misleading and intellectually insulting tautology. Also, you mention Rock Band like it's the only game that promotes group get-togethers and teamwork. You are aware of the Wii, right? The very premise of that console--it's homophonous namesake, in fact--is to promote face-to-face social interaction.

golf gets you outdoors walking

Fine, some game that burns less calories then... Bocce Ball. Billiards.

[golf has] human to human social benefits

Are you implying gaming cannot have this? Aside from playing TF2 (which I ONLY play with groups of friends and coworkers), or playing my DS while I wait for the bus, all games I play have face to face human social interaction.

TV keeps us up to speed on currant events.

Do you mean the news? You put it best: not to discount your example, but this is a benefit that "most" TV shows don't offer. I think you knew what I meant, but if you do not: I mean whatever non-news show you think is worthwhile enough that you watch. Trailer Park Boys, Pushing Daisies, House, um... Ice Road Truckers? You get the idea.

Watching movies could be considered art in motion

Praytell, Roger, why can movies be art while games cannot? Note! This is the only point out of all this that I have a genuine interested in discussing.

Reading is fundamental even if it's fiction.

As long as we're simply asserting things as fact without backing them up with an argument, no it is not.

People don't stare at the wall for 15 hours listening to music.

I stare at a wall and listen to music for 9. I guess your job is different than mine.

and tabletop games have physical benefits.

What tangible skills and benefits are these, that I can translate to real life? After years of playing tabletop games, my THACO has never gotten any lower, I'm probably no better at holding onto all the territories that make up North America in the event of a world war, and I'm just downright terrible at disenchanting artifacts.

Playing World of Tardcraft = fail

They see me trollin'
Bonus points for 3 meanings in one!


In summary: No.

[Caravan Ray]

I don't see how video games are any different than ... reading fiction,

Have you played The Brothers Karamazov on Nintendo? It rocks! I have 3 more levels of Alexei to get through until I become Ivan!

[Billy's Little Trip]

I'll just add to your responces.

What fluffy said, but because I feel like typing

I say "most" because of wii fit, which isn't really a game or Rock Band because it's a multi player team effort.

Why is WiiFit not a game? If you only define games as activities that have no benefits, then your argument boils down to a semantically misleading and intellectually insulting tautology. Also, you mention Rock Band like it's the only game that promotes group get-togethers and teamwork. You are aware of the Wii, right? The very premise of that console--it's homophonous namesake, in fact--is to promote face-to-face social interaction.

That's why I said, most. Those were examples. Wii might be intended to promote face-to-face, but it doesn't. My younger son, his friends, the other gamers that leave their dungeons periodically, do not like to be bothered with other players on their machine. I will say they will get together on occasion and set up their computers in the same room to play as a team. HEAD SHOT! Fuck this, he shot me through a wall!, lol. But for the most part, it seems anti social to me

golf gets you outdoors walking

Fine, some game that burns less calories then... Bocce Ball. Billiards.

I love Bocce Ball! Racquetball is probably the most physical sport I play.

[golf has] human to human social benefits

Are you implying gaming cannot have this? Aside from playing TF2 (which I ONLY play with groups of friends and coworkers), or playing my DS while I wait for the bus, all games I play have face to face human social interaction.

I'm going off of what I see. I don't see face-to-face interaction. But you are different than the gamers I've come to know. Maybe you can be the poster boy.

TV keeps us up to speed on currant events.

Do you mean the news? You put it best: not to discount your example, but this is a benefit that "most" TV shows don't offer. I think you knew what I meant, but if you do not: I mean whatever non-news show you think is worthwhile enough that you watch. Trailer Park Boys, Pushing Daisies, House, um... Ice Road Truckers? You get the idea.

Yeah, I can't argue with that. It's lazy entertainment.....but I love those shows so!

Watching movies could be considered art in motion

Praytell, Roger, why can movies be art while games cannot? Note! This is the only point out of all this that I have a genuine interested in discussing.

This is a tough one to argue. I say this because v games could be considered interactive movies. Watching movies would be the closest waste of time that I could really compare apples for apples with v games. The only thing I can think of off the top of my head is that you are watching a performance and if the performers are well skilled it will pull you in to their world. Games are performances of a programer, I guess.

Reading is fundamental even if it's fiction.

As long as we're simply asserting things as fact without backing them up with an argument, no it is not.

I know there is "some" reading in "some" games. But reading books improve spelling, grammar, punctuation, etc. I don't read much. I'm street smart.

People don't stare at the wall for 15 hours listening to music.

I stare at a wall and listen to music for 9. I guess your job is different than mine.

BUT, you are at work, getting paid. I call that working smart, not hard. There's nothing wrong with "not" working hard. My life depends on that. I believe in paying people that enjoy working hard to do that for me.

and tabletop games have physical benefits.

What tangible skills and benefits are these, that I can translate to real life? After years of playing tabletop games, my THACO has never gotten any lower, I'm probably no better at holding onto all the territories that make up North America in the event of a world war, and I'm just downright terrible at disenchanting artifacts.

Oops, I was referring to ping pong.

Playing World of Tardcraft = fail

They see me trollin'
Bonus points for 3 meanings in one!

Not sure how to respond to this. 3 points for ending this leaving me speechless


In summary: No.

OK, that was fun.

[Billy's Little Trip]

I should add. While I'm sitting here in my office, listening to music and posting here on the mighty SF, I am learning. I love to be enlightened to other opinions. It may not seem like it, but I really do care about others opinions. Quite often I learn something new. I consider that productive.

[fluffy]

Reading is fundamental even if it's fiction.

As long as we're simply asserting things as fact without backing them up with an argument, no it is not.

I know there is "some" reading in "some" games. But reading books improve spelling, grammar, punctuation, etc. I don't read much. I'm street smart. :P

Obviously your reading comprehension could use some work. Clearly, Adam was taking you to task for saying that reading is fundamental, and not making the claim that playing games involves reading.

[erik]

More to the point, here is a question to ponder:

Imagine a dude named Mitch reading a simple, average fiction book. Imagine another dude named Bob playing a simple, average video game. Ignore any other dude in the world who may be reading nonfiction and getting his PhD, or playing MMORPGs for 83 hours straight and not bathing, or whatever those other dudes who are not Mitch or Bob are doing.

Which dude, Mitch or Bob, will have had a more beneficial experience after doing his activity for 90 minutes straight and then stopping? Explain your reasoning, without referring to anyone who is not Mitch or Bob.

[fluffy]

There is actually medical evidence that shows that playing video games can be good for mental acuity.

There are also health benefits to reading. Of course, benefits like "coping with stress" and "a form of escapism" also apply to most video games.

So, in my opinion, and given those two articles above, I'd have to side with the video games.

I am, of course, biased.

[Billy's Little Trip]

Erik, you sure know how to breakdown it down to a simple scenario. I wish my brain worked more like that. It would save me a lot of time in making decisions.

[Spud]

Erik, you sure know how to breakdown it down to a simple scenario. I wish my brain worked more like that. It would save me a lot of time in making decisions.

Perhaps you should read more.