those pesky WMDs

jack · Post by **jack** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 2:47 am

ok, we can quit pretending now. ironic how this just sort of made back page news today. the whole justification for thousands of sacrificed lives and billions of dollars wasted.

mission accomplished

Hoblit · Post by **Hoblit** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 9:23 am

yeah, I was never sold on the sale.

I have always thought that the war effort should have been offered more on the facts at hand instead of the made up stuff.

Fried · Post by **Fried** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 1:52 pm

The really scary thing for me is.. everyone believed it! Lieberman was on the news saying "We didn't find any but..." Bush is saying, "I thought they were there but..." Our entire government believed it at one time or another! Kinda makes ya feel safe, huh.

jack · Post by **jack** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 2:22 pm

Fried wrote:The really scary thing for me is.. everyone believed it! Lieberman was on the news saying "We didn't find any but..." Bush is saying, "I thought they were there but..." Our entire government believed it at one time or another! Kinda makes ya feel safe, huh.

whether they (congress) believed they actually existed, or they were afraid to offer a voice of dissent, they allowed it to happen and the blood of every one of those casualties is on their figurative hands.

i hear you fried. it came from both sides. but when the CEO of a major corporation lies to their stockholders, pads the books, ignores data that might not work on their behalf somehow....they usually get fired. or go to jail. here, they get re-elected. go figure.

Hoblit · Post by **Hoblit** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 2:37 pm

jack shite wrote:
Fried wrote:The really scary thing for me is.. everyone believed it! Lieberman was on the news saying "We didn't find any but..." Bush is saying, "I thought they were there but..." Our entire government believed it at one time or another! Kinda makes ya feel safe, huh.
whether they (congress) believed they actually existed, or they were afraid to offer a voice of dissent, they allowed it to happen and the blood of every one of those casualties is on their figurative hands.

I want to remind you Jack that the blood would be on their hands no matter what. It's only a question of who else shares the blood. There were plenty of other reasons to go to war with that regime, they just didn't try to sell us on it. Congress got plenty of blood on their hands deciding to enter WWII, it's just that they shared the blood with other allies in justification brought on by the axis powers.

bottom line, War sucks... alot of blood on alot of hands.

Whereas I support the war effort. I have to be critical of the current administration's lack of success, current status, and the eventual bleak outcome of this war. It may not have been worth it.

Caravan Ray · Post by **Caravan Ray** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 4:24 pm

Fried wrote:The really scary thing for me is.. everyone believed it!

Did anyone really believe it?

From this side of the world I think there were basically 2 schools of thought:
a) these are outright lies and no justification for war, and
b) the WMD thing is probably a bit of a long shot, but there are other good reasons to go to war.

The surprise I recieved when I heard that Iraq had no WMD's was akin to the shock I received when I was informed that the Pope was a Catholic

j$ · Post by j$ » Thu Jan 13, 2005 5:18 pm

There were two schools of thought round my way

a) Well, there's a thinly-veiled excuse to go kick the crap out of someone.

b) What's a WMD?

jack · Post by **jack** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 6:16 pm

j$ wrote:
b) What's a WMD?

Words Meant to Deceive

Me$$iah · Post by **Me$$iah** » Fri Jan 14, 2005 12:44 pm

C'mon
no-one is surprised they found no WMD
There has been a 12 year quiet war to ensure that Iraq was an acceptably safe place to send in troops. The whole thing planned for years (tho Saddam probably sped things up by switching Iraqs oil trading currency from $ to euros)
Interestingly Venuzuela also started doing some Oil buisness in Euros too, just before the failed coup attempt.....hmmmmm
The was no WMD the Bush people knew it. The opposition (hahahahah)knew it. They just had to follow the plan laid out.
Did ya notice there was no political opposition to the war
Everyone suppots the war against the evil regime......why???
I actually heard Alexander Haig say on Fox News
"..wat Hitler did is like bouy scout stuff compared to Saddam"
pardon In the weeks leading up to Austwitch liberation day (my B'Day)
27 Jan lets not start thinking that every tyrant is worse than the last..
but thats off point...Just to sa Iraq is bad m'kay is no justification. Africa is bad-no american wars there its about the petrodollar the coming rise of the EU and american debt not enough space left to go into it properly and Ive said too much
You havnt seen me alright.....

Hoblit · Post by **Hoblit** » Fri Jan 14, 2005 12:47 pm

Me$$iah wrote:Did ya notice there was no political opposition to the war

wha? did you miss something? are we on the same planet?

Me$$iah · Post by **Me$$iah** » Fri Jan 14, 2005 12:50 pm

I just reread my post and the other one i wrote today in the one about no more tape

my god Im in an angsty mood

and Ive no idea why

Me$$iah · Post by **Me$$iah** » Fri Jan 14, 2005 1:13 pm

tho I must say

Hoblit wrote:
Me$$iah wrote:Did ya notice there was no political opposition to the war
wha? did you miss something? are we on the same planet?

1991 Rep. pres USA starts bombing Iraq
91-92 bombing continues
92-00 Dem. pres USA continues bombing Iraq
99-05 A new rep. Bush same old bombing

the simple version

1991 USA start a war
2005 still fighting
wheres the opposition .... really ...seriously
Irrispective of who is in power the overall adgena remains the same
look globaly its the same everywhere

Hoblit · Post by **Hoblit** » Fri Jan 14, 2005 2:57 pm

Me$$iah wrote:tho I must say
Hoblit wrote:
Me$$iah wrote:Did ya notice there was no political opposition to the war
wha? did you miss something? are we on the same planet?
1991 Rep. pres USA starts bombing Iraq
91-92 bombing continues
92-00 Dem. pres USA continues bombing Iraq
99-05 A new rep. Bush same old bombing

the simple version

1991 USA start a war
2005 still fighting
wheres the opposition .... really ...seriously
Irrispective of who is in power the overall adgena remains the same
look globaly its the same everywhere

The first war with Iraq had little opposition and was supported because Iraq was being aggressive to an (oil) ally. (Kuwait)

Therefore, actions taken after that were only responses to Iraqi insubordenance...such as them firing at our military in the area.

This new war was opposed by the UN and the EU and generally frowned on by quite a few Countries. This war is famous with political opposition. It's been the butt of political opposition jokes from both who support it and those who don't.

If you are suggesting that it isn't political opposition because nobody has called up their military to stop us... that would be MILITARY OPPOSITION...and besides, you'd still only be mostly right. Seeing how packistanis and others started to enter Iraq in order to fight americans based on political opposition.

<b>This</b> war has had a heaping helping of political opposition.

j$ · Post by j$ » Fri Jan 14, 2005 4:36 pm

Yes one might mention the 2-3 million people in Europe alone who registered their protest in various peaceful democratic ways. whether it was effective is a matter for either debate, or the future to tell. There's more than one way to skin a cat.

j$

jack · Post by **jack** » Fri Jan 14, 2005 6:14 pm

the only small consolation will be that it will remain his legacy. when one thinks of this administration in the future, one will think "botched war started by liars". nothing defines this presidency so much. well, maybe "stolen election" but thats old news and water under the bridge compared to this.

Hoblit · Post by **Hoblit** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 11:51 am

jack shite wrote:the only small consolation will be that it will remain his legacy. when one thinks of this administration in the future, one will think "botched war started by liars". nothing defines this presidency so much. well, maybe "stolen election" but thats old news and water under the bridge compared to this.

'cmon now Jack, he'll get a least two paragraphs in our children's history books. Stolen election will totally be in there. (at least the controversy of the election)

wait...no... the same History that claims Christopher Columbus was a 'good guy' will probably spin Bush in the same manner...that is, if he can find one thing, ONE THING and get THAT monumentally right.

School history books, don't hold your breath.

j$ · Post by j$ » Mon Jan 17, 2005 12:11 pm

History belongs to the Victor.

Fight's Up!

sparks · Post by **sparks** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 10:38 pm

Fried wrote:The really scary thing for me is.. everyone believed it! Lieberman was on the news saying "We didn't find any but..." Bush is saying, "I thought they were there but..." Our entire government believed it at one time or another! Kinda makes ya feel safe, huh.

Oh yeah, and Lieberman is the most liberal man in America!

OOOOH WAAAAIiiiit...

He's quite possibly so socially conservative as to be a Democrat because he's Jewish, and thus doesn't really fit into the traditional (or even modern) Republican poltiical schematic.

Okay, but that's just a rant. The important thing is that PEOPLE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE ABLE TO BELIEVE THIS KIND OF STATEMENT! If the President says to the Congress and to the nation that there is good, solid evidence based on tangible reports, you're supposed to be able to take that statement as, at the very least, BASED in fact, or on some foundation other than, say, confident if self-supporting supposition.

sparks · Post by **sparks** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 10:39 pm

j$ wrote:History belongs to the Victor.

Fight's Up!

And who the hell is Victor?

sparks · Post by **sparks** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 10:44 pm

Me$$iah wrote:tho I must say
Did ya notice there was no political opposition to the war
....
Irrispective of who is in power the overall adgena remains the same
look globaly its the same everywhere

I won't bother to refute the above statements in a logical fashion, because, first, that has been done in this thread, and second, I feel it would be a waste of my effort.

I will, however, point out that if Ali G were a real person, so real as to be terribly unfunny and generally worthy only of pitied mockery, his name might very well be Me$$iah.

This message has been brought to you by my puny, voiceless midget of a conscience, and his subservience to my spiteful ego.

Me$$iah · Post by **Me$$iah** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 11:05 pm

Look Im trying real hard to stay away from this place Man I hate talking politics with people that i dont really need to talk politics with. I always end up argueing over some finnickyI point or another and it never ends well

suffice to say I feel I must just comment to the point that the system in America is so perverted and for such a long time that most dont realise its broke.
Just compare the constition says the system should be to the way the system is the diffence is unbeleivable.

seriously read the constition examine what each line says,
the first 10 ammendments (bil of rights) is the most important document any american can read. Every citizen of a state within the union should know the bill of rights by heart, how many do

any way

peace to ya all

right gon on slate wat Im saying
I understand the fragility of the Ego

sparks · Post by **sparks** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 11:24 pm

Str8 up yo. Piece.