And when will you do reviews??? (When Did You Know reviews)

[blue]

Josh Millard had the best put together song, and I'm sure his neighbors appreciate that he recorded it under his waterbed.

I appreciated Hatenoise's attention to production values and tight playing. It's hard to get that perfectly punk sound.

Master Hyde has great flow, too bad he's rapping over a Casio demo. That's a really good song, tho. Someone remix it. Fuck it, by the end of the song I'm charmed by the Casio. Right on. If it was ironic you're a genius.

[JonPorobil]

Welcome back, Blue!

[glennny]

Bad Boys at Bat Mitzvahs- Nice production! A perfectly groovy song sullied by mediocre sing-talk quasi rapping. It’s still an uninteresting 12-bar, but nice groovy beat! The acoustic sounds good. The chorus is rather uninspired. I’d like to hear some more clever lyrics and a real singer. There’s a lot going for this, but a lot that is phoned in. Desperately needs a solo of some instrument to break up the monotony. I see you just called it over when it was time to solo. I look forward to more inspired entries, I’m sure you’ll find some gold one of these fights.

DJ Ranger Denise- Beautiful piano! The whole thing is really quiet. You should seek some production tips to get the whole thing louder. You pretty much have to be Joni Mitchell for me to enjoy G & P. There’s some sweet melancholy in the piano playing. Your voice to me sounds a bit more oriented for rock than balladry. It’s distinctive and cuts through really well, but is more cool than beautiful to my ears. Not bad, but not quite right to me.

Feat-Every time I hear the cheap drum machine drum fill my mind tangents to “Poison” by BBD. There’s not much going for this for me. The rhymes and the flow aren’t doing anything for me. Please bring the funk, so I can focus on the music and ignore the rapping.

Hate Noise- I really like this! It’s like an edgier Unicorns. Excellent delivery of the vocals! There’s some serious passion and rock in this. This gets a vote!

Wages & Co.- I can’t tell what band this is by the ID tag, but I know that’s Wages. I’d guess based on the alphabet, that this is Hoglen & Wages or something like that. The verse is alright. The chorus is really weak. I dig the instrumentation. The band is really loose. Something so simple that doesn’t go many places has GOT to be super tight. Horns are nice, but struggle to do anything melodically over this plodding thing. Was that an ending? Just sounds incomplete.

Jon Eric- I really dislike your vocals. It sounds like you’re nervous with stage fright or something. Which is not the case, having been to a couple of Jon Eric performances. There’s a big cheese factor to most of your music, this track included. To me it sounds like rejected show tunes. I do love theatre music, but this makes me cringe. I do really like the change up at 2:24. That is very cool. I’ve heard more clever lyrics from you. I’ve heard catchier songs from you. You’re an adequate guitarist, but a pretty good pianist. Love to hear less strumming more ivories. Not bad per se, but not winning me over.

Josh Millard- I’ve listened to the fight like 10 times. Why can’t I ever remember this song? It’s pretty good. It’s very quiet. Again, like Jon Eric this sounds like theatre music. This however works rather well. It’s too damn quiet! It feels like a movement in a song cycle. I’m fond of this part of a song, but it doesn’t feel complete. There’s a premise, some intensity, but no real development. I’m borderline on giving this a vote. Yeah, no vote, good movement. Sounds like a Prelude to a concept album. Good stuff, makes me want to hear more!

King Arthur- You always have stellar vocals. I like the chorus. This is even more Jimmy Buffet than usual. The production is a bit too sterile for me to really get into. I’m just not liking the timbres of the fake flute, or drums. It’s a solid song, but rather safe. I feel like I need a mixed drink and a dance partner to properly enjoy this. As it is I’ve got solitude, headphones and coffee. Perhaps the wrong frame of mind.

Masterhyde- This feels like 1985 when rap was young, and all the genre felt the need to over emphasize the rhymes. The cadence is soooo tired. Reminds me of when rap was easy to make fun of and dislike. You need funkier beats, some kind of soul singer for the chorus, etc.. This succeeds in what is trying to do, but I question the taste. Well done, not my bag, not winning me over.

Charlie-O- Wow! This is terrible. I’m offended musically, lyrically, rhythmically, and aesthetically. This is not funny, not clever, not done very well. More practice required!

PiGPEN- I dig the backing music. That goes a long way. The stoned drawl works alright for this. This is too long however. I’m done with it after 2 minutes. Sounds like rinse-cycle-repeat. I couldn’t care less about whatever it is you’re talking about. Speed it up, change it up, keep up with the interesting back drop!

Ross Durand- Nice solid song. The backing vocals are great. Very well constructed and delivered bridge! I like the guitar tone for the solo, but not so much for the rhythm guitar part throughout the song. This is very subtle, but you actually sound like an acoustic player playing an electric guitar. You have to back off on the attack with an electric (in my humble opinion anyway). I think a real drummer, with more drummer dynamics would improve this song immensely. Despite these nitpicks, I like this enough to give it a vote! Good job!

The Social Commentaries- There’s some good things going on. And some not so good things going on. The “let’s have a mother luvin’ baby” cracked me up. The rest of the potty mouth jr high sex stuff I found to be tedious. I dig the horn section line throughout. Not bad delivery, but just ridiculous lyrics.

Steve Durand- Yes! Vry cool piano intro. I too am going crazy placing the music. I feel like it was Sesame St. , or Benny Hill, or Flying Circus. The horns are too tasty not to win a vote. The vocals and lyrics are cheeky and silly, which works well in this song. VOTE

XO- Worst of the fight. Do you always vocalize what you are doing? Huge meta song violation, maybe the worst ever.

Berkeley Social Scene- We got 2 Tuesdays in this fight cycle. This is mostly the result of the 1st Tuesday. We had a full house. Lunkhead-Rhodes, Ken-drums, Martyr-Bass, Ryan-Guitar, Paul-Sax, Yours Truly-Guitar. I’ve been friends with Paul for like 18 years or something. He’s such a monster on the sax. I’ve been meaning to get him in the studio for ages. So at the end of the school teacher’s summer we got him in for 2 Tuesdays in a row. This writing process was about as collaborative as you can get. We jammed, talked about the bits we liked. Structured it up into a song. Soloing with a sax player is just AWESOME! I usually try to phrase my licks as though I were Charlie Parker on guitar. It’s much easier to do such with a sax player there. Paul is hyper intelligent in the language of music. It was amazing to me how I could play a fast lick, then he could repeat it, harmonize it and provide a counterpoint to it in real time without hesitation. I listened to the instrumental song we made that night a lot over the next week, formulating some vocal and lyrical ideas. On the 2nd Tuesday after the Ziplore jam, Martyr and myself set out to do some late night vocals. At that point I have verse and chorus ideas, but nothing for the bridge. We tracked the verses and choruses. Then it was our last chance to finish up the song so we took a couple of runs at the bridge. So that melody and lyric batch is improvised, which I think resulted much more interesting than if I wrote out a melody. Anyway, I’m rather proud of this song and all the efforts of every band member. Mad props to Ken for masterfully mixing all of those tracks so I can hear them all and hear them well in their glory.

Ziplore- Zipline reunited for the Song Fight Live San Francisco show. Paul is a high school friend of the Prisoner. They played in a jazz combo for years, rehearsing in my garage. So Martyr is the producer of this track, and I am the editor. We had 65 minutes of improvised bliss. I took one jam of 6 I though tI could cut into something song like. This was 12 minutes and I cut it down to 5:30. I basically got it down to all of my favorite bits. The next step would be to cut it into more of a composition (maybe). The composition as it is has really grown on me. I think the main improvement would be to negotiate the vocals into more or less of a presence. The soloing against the sax is clearly my favorite part. It’s nice to set the Beatles aside sometimes and chase Mahavishnu. (just ask George Martin). I know this isn’t the perfect forum for this kind of a musical piece, but I thought enough people would enjoy it, that I just had to get it out there.


So my votes go to:
Hate Noise
Ross Durand
Steve Durand
Berkeley Social Scene
Ziplore

[BBABM]

Desperately needs a solo of some instrument to break up the monotony. I see you just called it over when it was time to solo. I look forward to more inspired entries, I’m sure you’ll find some gold one of these fights.

thank you. i agree, it needs a solo. ideally, for me, there would have been a whole horn section instead of me playing the guitar. i'll be honest. I suck horribly at lead guitar. the best i can do is really something similar to the little single note lick that was repeated through the whole thing. i am totally self taught, and because of this regrettably i was never forced to learn and practice my scales over and over and over to develop the skills needed to play lead well. it would have been sweet with a trombone solo is all im saying. as for the singing, those are really the only rap style lyrics i've ever done... they obviously weren't that great. perhaps you will like the next one more.

[JonPorobil]

Ross Durand- [...]This is very subtle, but you actually sound like an acoustic player playing an electric guitar. You have to back off on the attack with an electric (in my humble opinion anyway).

I have this problem too. This is why I asked Cogott to play electric for me: in my own words: "I'm just terrible at electric guitar. Awful at it. I can't find a decent tone, I can't write decent parts, I can't play it well, and I have trouble mixing it. "

I was wondering if you could elaborate a little more on your advice, Glennny, for another acoustic guitar player who wants to get better at electric.

[glennny]

For the most part, the best way to get good at electric guitar is practice. Practice practice practice. Kind of true for anything really. Acoustic to Electric guitar is like pen and ink drawing vs. oil painting. Here’s the difference in playing acoustic and electric (for me anyway). Acoustic requires more strength in both strumming and fretting. A string bend is particularly hard on acoustic (I usually get 3 fingers on a string to bend it up a step). There’s a lot of slop and muffle that doesn’t really project, while the notes and the attack project really well.

Electric guitar is more under the microscope, the microphone (pick-up) is right there on the guitar. It picks up everything. There’s multitudes of tones and pick-up configurations etc, but for the most part you want to strum much softer on an electric than an acoustic. If you play with the same force it distorts. You really want to get your distortion from other places. Such as a distortion pedal. Ideally with electric guitar you only apply enough pressure to overcome fret buzz. Also in my world view there’s mainly 2 kinds of electric guitars: Fenders and Gibsons. The humbucker Gibsons are a huge monster. Acoustic players should go Fender electric before they go Gibson.

Also remember that electric guitar you’re holding is 2 instruments (arguably 67 instruments), and you want very different settings between soloing single note stuff, and rhythm guitar chords. That hot boost you give to your lead line will demolish a big rhythm chord. Conversely if you take a blistering solo with your rhythm settings you are sure to underwhelm your audience.

That help at all?

[inevitableguy]

A bunch of stuff about electric vs. acoustic playing

Alternatively, you could turn the distortion up to 11 and beat the living crap out of your electric...it (mostly) works for me.


OK, on with the reviews. It's been a crazy summer - I'm ashamed to admit it, but this is the first fight I've listened to all the way through since before Song Fight Live. After 20 years, I still know nothing about music, so here are my largely unhelpful reviews (reviewed in the order the home page gave them to me, listed in the same order because it's a lazy Saturday):

Ross Durand - The harmonies during the choruses are a little tough on my ears. This doesn't go anywhere unexpected.

Steve Durand - The humor isn't doing it for me, and the song doesn't hold up otherwise.

Feat - I will plead genre ignorance - I don't know if this is good or not. I don't immediately hate it, so that's a good sign. You sorta lost me at the end.

Josh Millard - Turn it up - the track was mastered too quietly. This has got a good vibe, but it feels like a small part of a larger rock opus. In other words, I think this would be great on an album, sandwiched between a few other songs with similar thematic elements, but it doesn't stand up on its own quite as well.

PiGPEN - This has no flow. Please lose the fake accent, I can't understand half of what you're saying.

King Arthur - Using the Hindi lyrics is clever. It's got a good rhythm and it's easy to sing along to, but it's just not grabbing me in any meaningful way.

Masterhyde - I like the flow and the groove. I wish the bassline would change up in the choruses - it gets too repetative as is.

DJ Ranger Den - I like this concept for the title and the music is pretty. It doesn't really stick with me, but it's a solid effort.

The HATE Noise - I love the melody. Heck, I love this song.

Ziplore - There's a lot of really impressive musicianship going on, but the song as a whole really doesn't go anywhere.

The Social Commentaries - Interesting concept, but where's the tie-in to the title? The rhymes are pretty weak.

Bad Boys at Bat Mitzvahs - It's just the same bland guitar bits over and over again...it needs more.

X0 - This loses me really fast.

Berkeley Social Scene - I like the instrumental parts - especially the intro. There's something about the structure of the choruses that bothers me, but I can't put my finger on it.

MC Charlie 0 - Vulgarity really loses its impact if that's the whole song. At least it's short.

Jon Eric & Friends - I know you like to have a strong hook in your songs, but I'm not really finding it in this one. I like the slightly strained vocals, though, and the performance and recording are solid.

Hoglen & Wages - Not bad. It feels a little slow.

The HATE Noise was my favorite track this week, it even made it into my iTunes. Additional votes go to Josh Millard and DJ Ranger Den.

[Masterhyde]

Bad Boys At Bat Mitzvahs

Nice guitar, kinda funky. Interesting flow. I can work with this. Hook seems a little weak, especially compared to the rest of this. Not sure how the lyrics relate to the chorus....but okay. Nice song.

Steve Durand

Wow. We just went....somewhere. "Gay as a party hat"? I guess it wasn't you, it was her. Folksy...I guess that's the word. Vocals are quite novelty if that makes any sense. Intersting little ditty.

Hate Noise

Hmmm...not quite my cup of tea. Can't really make out the words. I'm gonna disqualify myself from evaluating this as it's pretty far from what I can evaluate. I mean I don't do too much 3/4 time...

Josh Millard

Nice groove. Seemed to be going somewhere and just stopped. Too bad.

Ross Durand

Nice song. Seems pretty complete. Nice guitar work. Backgrounds could have been better, but I suppose you could have done that during the third week of working on thi...err.....never mind. Even had a change part and a solo. Impressive.

Feat

Decent flow. Beat works well too. Lyrics aren't too bad although I'm not sure how it relates to the title. Is it "when did you know you're dreaming"? I guess. If so, it wasn't too smooth a transition as far as the title is concerned. Overall song is cool but not too topical with the title.

Pigpen

Not too bad. I almost thought it was a language other than English, but it obviously is. Wait....I'm not following the story....oh......when did you know you were stronger than a bear?? Seems like the title was "tacked on" to this particular rhyme. The song isn't too bad but.....just seems this weeks title was an afterthought.

Holgen Wages

Nice guitar groove. Not as into the rest of the music. Vocals are okay. Not following the story here either. The horns at the end are a tad too loud.

Jon Eric

Like the acoustic guitar. I like the way this one moves. The words after "when did you know" go by so fast it's hilarious. I'm assuming you did that on purpose. I could actually groove to this. With the exception of the pitchiness of the vocals.

MC Charlie

Aaah, ok. I'm assuming this will be dismissed for the whole "talking about being the best" thing that people here hate. As far as I can tell, the beat is ok, and the rhymes seem to have unnecessary cursing. By unnecessary I mean the cursing "stands out" as if it was put there to "make it better", which it didn't. Rhyme style was ok, slightly nerdcore-ish. There were also moments of off-beatedness. And again, this weeks title seemed to be "tacked on" as an afterthought.

X0

Is this the "let's piss off the Song Fight rule of no talking about songs and self" week? At any rate, the beat is unique. The flow isn't bad at all. Got some complex rhymes in there. The song isn't actually about the title at all, but you fit it into the chorus so I'll let that slide. Not a bad entry all in all, though you've probably been slammed for the basic "I'm better than you" topic .

Social Commentaries

Good Lord, is this rap week? Not that I'm complaining, but damn! At any rate....the beat is ok. "Let's procreate"? You've got to be kidding....."Let's have a MF baby"....I have no words. "Camry" and "children" don't rhyme. This weeks title has to be coming up....any second now.....here it comes.......right after the talking part.......ummm.......no, not the infamous sex part over the music.......ummm.....what was this weeks title again?

King Arthur

Okay, if you start rapping I'm leaving my own house! Ah, ummm....are you calling someone a ho? Sorry, just finished 3 raps in a row....I'll use my intense powers of deduction to infer that your chorus means "When did you know". Nice story, vocals are cool and I kind of like the music. I think the flute should be a tad (and I mean a tad) lower.

DJ Ranger Den

That's quite a piano intro for someone with "DJ" in their name. Wait....a girl?? Hmmm.......where is this story going......I like the chorus with the title being from somewhere else. The "when did you know" around 2:49 was kind of...rushed. Nice song though.

Ziplore

Distored guitar and sax. Interesting. I can deal with the groove here. Vocals seem out of place. Music works though. It's cool, but when there's a title posted and someone gives a mostly instrumental entry....can't vote for it. Now I've forgotten what the words said. There's more words......I think......cool instrumental

Berkeley Socal Scene

What do you guys just have saxophones laying around? I like the music, but the mix could be improved. Vocals aren't on key, but I like the idea. The chorus is pretty catchy too. If the vocals were more on key and the mix were improved this would be great. As the great Maxwell Smart said "missed it by that much". And an actually topically relevant song. Imagine that! Aww hell, the chorus pushed me over...

Votes: Berkeley Socal Scene, Bad Boys At Bat Mitzvahs, Ross Durand, Jon Eric, King Arthur

[reve]

Win: Hate Noise.
R'ups (no order): DJ Ranger Den, J. Millard, King Arthur, S. Durand.
Always enjoyable: BSS, J. Eric, R. Durand.
Rapfight: Xsubθ (with ease).

Ross, you sound particularly polished this week.

The Hate Noise's track was the easy, easy win for me -- by leaps and bounds -- even though it's in serious need of being turned the fuck up. Luckily my stereo has a volume control!

[Spud]

Sadly, Paco's only contribution to this song was selling me the bass that I played in it.

Hey Paco sold me the 12-string I play on my song, too!

Sometime live we have to have a "Paco sold me this" Collab band.

I'm in!

[king_arthur]

Don't know if I'll have time to do reviews of all the songs, but I did want to comment to DJ Ranger Den - watch the breathing sounds on the vocals. Maybe it was just me, but I could really hear it and found it very distracting. Work on turning away from the mic when breathing, or breathing through your nose, or learn about using the compressor in compressor-expander mode.

Charles (KA)

[ken]

Berkeley Socal Scene

What do you guys just have saxophones laying around? I like the music, but the mix could be improved. Vocals aren't on key, but I like the idea. The chorus is pretty catchy too. If the vocals were more on key and the mix were improved this would be great. As the great Maxwell Smart said "missed it by that much". And an actually topically relevant song. Imagine that! Aww hell, the chorus pushed me over...

Thanks for the vote. What do you think is wrong with the mix?

-Ken

[JonPorobil]

Since my reviews are usually done during a first or second listen, I usually like to do a follow-up near the end of the voting period. Here we are:

After multiple listens, I really warmed to Feat's track. The lyrical approach is one of the more original in this fight. Something about the intro grates on me, which I can't put my finger on... also, the wife is digging on this track, too.

I think, after a lot of consideration, that Josh Millard submitted the best song to this fight. The wife sez: "This sounds like what Paul McCartney was going for with Wings." I'm pretty sure that's a compliment.

A really close second place goes to Ross Durand. I know you've been hearing this all week, but your entry is an outstanding example of your pop-folk vibe. The kind of thing I often aspire to, myself. Solid on all counts; perfectly executed.

I've had King Arthur's chorus stuck in my head all week.

Masterhyde, I think I may have been too flippant in my original review of your song. I really really like the song you're trying to do. I think you need to work on balancing your flow against the emotion inherent in your story (this was problematic in your "The Middle Part," too). Your lyrics and rhyme structure are above-average, but as I remarked before, there are large portions of the song where the flow overshadows your delivery. I also think the song would benefit from some higher-quality instrumentation. All the instruments - especially the bass - sound like they came out of a cheap keyboard synth. I'd love to hear you do a track with a live band.

[Ross]

Ross Durand- [...]This is very subtle, but you actually sound like an acoustic player playing an electric guitar. You have to back off on the attack with an electric (in my humble opinion anyway).

So this will sound more defensive than i mean it too. But here goes. If you are referring to the rhythm guitar, it think you may be missing the point. The whole context of electric 12 string comes, in my mind, from the folk rock and associated pop of the 1960s which was quite about the sound of an electricified acoustic and the accompanying unique style. In incorporaring the electric 12 string on this song, i was hoping to reference that aesthetic, so having it sound like an acoustic player playing electric is exactly what I was hoping for.

Also, i think I have enough other material with differently played electric guitars that you'll agree i don't always sound that way when playing electric guitar.

So I humbly submit to you that what you are hearing was, while not necessarily counscious, an outcome of my stylistic choice for this particular song.

Thanks for the review ( and thanks for the vote)!

[glennny]

I am referring to the electric 12-string. And please don't get me wrong, you're one of the best players here on Song Fight. This is really a very subtle point, that I probably wouldn't bring up with anyone else (maybe Paco or Lunkhead). I get the aesthetic, and it's a good choice, but even though you're a great player, there's something about the performance on that 12-string track, that doesn't work for me. Sure it's a little sloppy, but that's fine. In stead of Byrds jangle the whole time, there's some Hendrix punches that would would on an acoustic but not so much on the Ricki (is it a Ricki?) If you want to turn your A song into an A+, I'd redo that track. It's still good, just not the best it can be.

[JonPorobil]

Ties for first, second, and third! Wow, people! Congrats to Ross, PiGPEN, and all the top six. Some real good ones this week!

[Ross]

Holy crap! Wow, thanks, voting public. And what a photo finish this thing was. Congrats to all the top finishers, and especially to my tie-mate, pigpen.

[joshmillard]

Ha! Nice grouping.

[Steve Durand]

Wow! that was a close one.

Congrats to Ross & PiGPEN

[reve]

Berkeley Socal Scene

If the vocals were more on key and the mix were improved this would be great.

Thanks for the vote. What do you think is wrong with the mix?

-Ken

I know you weren't addressing me, but the hard panned guitars were not a rewarding experience with headphones.

[PiGPEN]

Oh hay look at that, i told you guys this would be my "glorious return to rap".
Brofist's all around.

[TheCapitalistYouth]

@Masterhyde: I think in some cases you should pay closer attention to the lyrics of the songs. Of course I'm a little biased about my own song (The Social Commentaries) but in your review of PiGPEN you clearly didn't catch the concept of the song. "When did you know... you were a bear?" is obviously not a theme someone would come up with outside of this title, so I don't know how it could be "tacked on." And it's worth pointing out that it's not required the title be repeated verbatim as song lyrics. The idea is to write a song based on the title.

Re: Children & Camry, the verse rhyme scheme is A B B A / A C C A using near rhymes.