Buffalo Granola Bars ( Trailblazin' )

Hoblit · Post by **Hoblit** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 10:26 am

by popular demand (mainly for thread searching reasons) I have added the song title to the thread topic.

tonetripper · Post by **tonetripper** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 10:52 am

Yo, yo Hoblit!!! I'm not of the old school but I catch your drift!!!! Cool thread title. Bring it on!!!!

Calfborg · Post by **Calfborg** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 12:35 pm

My entry's an instrumental.

blue · Post by **blue** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 12:42 pm

and a seriously bad one at that. what were you thinking? "OH, I COULD BE MORE LIKE DWG!"

meh. you're better than that shit, dude.

Calfborg · Post by **Calfborg** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 12:46 pm

blue wrote:and a seriously bad one at that. what were you thinking? "OH, I COULD BE MORE LIKE DWG!"

meh. you're better than that shit, dude.

It's really that bad? Woops.

j$ · Post by j$ » Mon Oct 04, 2004 4:31 pm

Reviews - IMO. Written as I listen.

DJ Sponge et al – I like the slightly rough production values, makes a refreshing change from over-polished rap (on the radio, I mean. Here I guess it's more common). The stoner boasting never really got me going

Like the deep piano hit. Nice drum pattern too, if a bit repetitive. Needs a nice singsong chorus every now and then. Cute but a little too repetitive is my final judgement.

Miasmatics – great guitar riff. Very cool. Like the Mud-style drums (the band not the production value!) – I may be stupid but I don’t really have a clue who the subject matter of yr song is. Your Elvis influence is showing through in the vocals – heh. A little unconfident on the bridge perhaps – and maybe a different instrument on top of the chorus to distinguish? I like it, though; a lot. It’s a cool electric cowboy groove. I still suspect you may be Urge Overkill’s British cousin!

Draft - Either the drums are too loud on the intro or the guitar is too quiet. Once that's out of the way that's a very nice groove. I could hear this playing in the background to a Tony hawkes Pro-Skater Level, which I guess is a good ol’ thing. Don’t like the metal-style ‘wow!’. Nice chorus, but maybe a bit too quiet? I mean, the production is cool, but there seem to be a few things amiss here and there, but I don’t really know much about the genre, so can’t really help. It’s coming from the same school of thought as A-Bom but a bit more poodle metal (?is that the right term?)… [sulk] I think you’ll get plenty of votes anyway, you probably don’t need mine. [/sulk]

Calfborg = instrumental = no vote, of course, in the Johnny Cashpoint book of mean whittling down of contenders. Pleasant enough, in the experimental field, and not terrible, just not sure a) how it relates to the title (other than people who make this kind of music often consider themselves vanguards of experimentation) and b) if I actually would listen to it again. It’s just not really kicking enough, especially compared to your last couple of entries. Sorry, man – don’t want to discourage you at all, but this one no floats my boat. Or even gets my goat.

Johnny Cashpoint – hey, who recorded a song and entered it under my name? :p

OK so for me, it’s between miasmatics and draft. Mr B has the edge, personal taste wise, while Draft have got that sound down. It’s kind of down to the lyric – if I can figure out who Miasmatics are talking about they got my vote. It’s not like there isn’t an obvious runaway vote-getter anyway ….

j$

sponge · Post by **sponge** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 6:33 pm

I would like to give up credit for my beat to mikal khill, whose work can be checked out at.... oh crap I forget where.

he did give me this beat though, I didn't jack it

tonetripper · Post by **tonetripper** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 6:57 pm

j$ wrote:[sulk] I think you’ll get plenty of votes anyway, you probably don’t need mine. [/sulk]

That's hearsay Johnny!!! And who says we couldn't use your vote...... did you see the results of the last fight. If DWG is running away with it in fights with 20 second instrumental pieces including music from Pachelbel, we need all the votes we can get.

We weren't planning for the poodle metal [ha ha - that must be a new found J$ism, cuz I've never heard of it] but somehow it came out that way, I guess. We figured if we were gonna go for the cheese, might as well go hard at it..... hahahaha.... fun as all get out. Thanks for the review.

-Pablo

sponge · Post by **sponge** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 10:55 pm

is it just me...

or do all the tracks other than mine (and calfborg's inst.) sound like some variation on british punk rock?

weird.

if i weren't voting for me, i'd vote for mias.

j$ · Post by j$ » Tue Oct 05, 2004 1:02 am

sponge wrote:is it just me...

or do all the tracks other than mine (and calfborg's inst.) sound like some variation on british punk rock?

weird.

if i weren't voting for me, i'd vote for mias.

(All the other tracks = 3) + (Two of the other tracks = by British people) + (Punk / Garage rock = popular) = not weird at all actually.

Go on, vote for the Miasmatics. How disheartening would you find it if someone else said that about yours? (maybe not at all, but I would hate it (EDIT: if someone said it about mine, I mean. Ack, so confusing, anyway, hopefully my troubled reasoning might sway your standpoint.)

J$

j$ · Post by j$ » Tue Oct 05, 2004 5:10 am

tonetripper wrote:did you see the results of the last fight. If DWG is running away with it in fights with 20 second instrumental pieces including music from Pachelbel, we need all the votes we can get.

Just 'cos no-one's saying it doesn't mean I'm not thinking it. I feel sorry for Eddie Bangs.

j$

sponge · Post by **sponge** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 7:14 am

j$ wrote:
sponge wrote:is it just me...

or do all the tracks other than mine (and calfborg's inst.) sound like some variation on british punk rock?

weird.

if i weren't voting for me, i'd vote for mias.
(All the other tracks = 3) + (Two of the other tracks = by British people) + (Punk / Garage rock = popular) = not weird at all actually.

Go on, vote for the Miasmatics. How disheartening would you find it if someone else said that about yours? (maybe not at all, but I would hate it (EDIT: if someone said it about mine, I mean. Ack, so confusing, anyway, hopefully my troubled reasoning might sway your standpoint.)

J$

sponge LIKES british punk rock

i wasn't saying this as any sort of negative commentary, you just don't hear much british punk rock any more

j$ · Post by j$ » Tue Oct 05, 2004 7:38 am

Oh I didn't think you were being negatory. I was just making a comment. See, one of the problems with being in a different time zone is that I get a little lonely so I tend to make comments on stuff just to get some posts going, really

J$

king_arthur · Post by **king_arthur** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 8:25 am

First impressions 'n' such...

CALFBORG: some interesting sounds in there, and I do like the way
it keeps developing. I s'pose one could say that the bullwhip and
gun sounds evoke memories of the "Rawhide" TV show and cattle
drives 'n' such...

DJ SPONGE AND RYGUY: this was fun... I can, like, picture teh
video for this one, too. Keeper...

DRAFT: panning the drums to one side makes that side kinda
hollow... if you're going to do that, you might actually put
the bass over there, also. Nice harmony vocals on the chorus.
On the intro (and the re-entry around 2:02), it was hard to pick
up the rhythm of the song due to the oddly placed snare hits and
some triplet-y stuff going on in the guitar. Vocal could have
used a little more presence, be a little more in my face with it.
Listening to this a second time, the snare rhythms are bugging
me more than the first time through... maybe the bass and kick
just need to be a little more pronounced so that the beat itself
is clearer???

JOHNNY CASHPOINT: how come the bass disappears when the vocals
start? as with Draft, the drum beats (playing or program,
whichever) seem like they're confusing the rhythm more than
helping it... if I had a bunch of studio time, I'd love to get
just the vocal track from you and build a whole new arrangement
underneath it, something with a much stronger rock rhythm to
it... is "emasculating" really the word you want at the end of
v1? My sense, from reading the lyric, is that you're going on
about how "ecotourists" aren't nearly as cool as they think they
are. Or some politician who's saying all the environmentalist
words but doesn't actually care about the environment... I guess
I wish there was a bit more of a solution suggested than just
"accept it, embrace it, enjoy it, don't waste it..." Of course,
I may have missed the whole point of the song, too... I think
the line "it's not depressing" is throwing me, because I don't
get the sense that whoever the song is about thinks that nature
_is_ "depressing," they just think that it's the politically
correct thing to be in favor of, even if they don't really like
the outdoors at all.

THE MIASMATICS: I'd enjoy this more if the guitars were better
tuned. Ending a little abrupt (start, too; sounds like you
trimmed the recording right to the '1' beat and sometimes you
need to leave a little bit of air before that just to make
the entry smooth). I haven't figured out yet who this is
about (the Woody Allen / Johnny Carson reference in the first
line suggests that it's somebody from back in my day...), but
I like the focus of the lyrics. Good song, the performance is
a little ragged for my taste; keeper.

Hmm, think Sponge is my likely vote. Maybe I'm just in the mood
to be led by the hand through a song, but the stuff that appeals
the most to me lately are the songs that are really blatant about
telling a story or making a statement, while being fun to listen
to as music (good beat, tuned guitars, rhythm holds together
throughout) too.

j$ · Post by j$ » Tue Oct 05, 2004 9:32 am

king_arthur wrote:First impressions 'n' such...

JOHNNY CASHPOINT: how come the bass disappears when the vocals
start?

Because I wanted it to, for the first verse only. It comes back in on the first bridge.

is "emasculating" really the word you want at the end of
v1?

Yes. This song is for people who consider themselves the trailblazers of creative endeavour, people who try and 'do something that has never been done before / go places that have never been visited before'. The song posits the idea that no such place exists and that 'everything that you do/has been done before' - but 'it's not depressing/it's liberating' because once you accept it, bangs goes your anxiety of influence ( c Harold Bloom, 1971) and you can get on with doing something more honest to yourself. 'Accept it .... ' etc is encouragement.

Thus the deliberately sporadic rhythym guitar/ drum programming/ electronic squiggle noises over the place are an attempt to point people in the direction of that interpretation. Didn't work, obviously

Yah.

Andy Balham · Post by **Andy Balham** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 1:04 pm

...have been counted

Calfborg
An instrumental, so any possible vote has been forfeited. That aside, it's too repetive with nothing much for the listener to hang on to.

DJ Sponge and RyGuy
Reminds me of 'Cheeba Cheeba' by Tone Loc, but with a different rhyme with 'munchies' (which are, incidentally, a type of British confectionary). Tone preferred the more challenging rhyme of 'hungry', but that aside this is very well done and was looking like a possible vote. On further listens it starts to pale a bit as you know what's coming and the backing gets a bit monotonous. Still good fun though.

Draft
Love the intro. The vocals are a bit low in the verse and the style is a bit too familiar. The chorus is a treat, but doesn't quite sit properly with the verse. This has grown on me on subsequent listens, but I still want more of that chorus. Possible vote.

Johnny Cashpoint
Another strong intro, you've got the Elastica feel pretty good. I wouldn't have lost the bass on the first verse; it loses the feel for me. The keyboard work well, but the bit before the chorus feels a bit awkward to me. The chorus with backing vocal is quite delightful though. Better production, but not one of my favourites of yours.

The Miasmatics (me)
I was pleased with the general feel and the lyrics, but I should have added some breather bars and paid attention to the end.

Top 3:
3: DJ Sponge and RyGuy
2: Johnny Cashpoint
1: Draft

Andy Balham · Post by **Andy Balham** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 1:20 pm

j$ wrote:
tonetripper wrote:did you see the results of the last fight. If DWG is running away with it in fights with 20 second instrumental pieces including music from Pachelbel, we need all the votes we can get.
Just 'cos no-one's saying it doesn't mean I'm not thinking it. I feel sorry for Eddie Bangs.

j$

Ditto.

Andy B

thehipcola · Post by **thehipcola** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 4:34 pm

Trailblazin' thoughts...

Miasmatics
I love the intro, even the groove that comes after. The swagger of the song is nice, fits the groove, but the out of tune-ness of the guitars and singing get to me after a minute. Is there some kind of flange on the cymbals or somethin'? The mix is ok, drum sounds are pretty good. Bass is a little low in the mix, could use a little snort on that. I think this song is ok.

Draft
Thanks to TT and C-Monster for having me onboard for this one, was loads of fun. Good job on the mix TT! The chorus, while a truckload of gouda,jack, and old cheddar CHEESE is fun and I, like someone else wrote, want more of it. Fun fun fun.

J$
This is interesting...my feelings are mostly production related. I think more voices (different instruments) would serve this piece..it's interesting enough structually, but could use more variation sonically. Good job on the drum (programming?)..Liket the voice on the chorus. The main vox sit awkwardly in the mix imo. Maybe the whole track could use some comp. Certainly the vox, with a little bass roll-off.
I LOVE THE ENDING. possible vote.

DJ Sponge And Ryguy
Yah, not bad. Needs more work. But you know, it's not unpleasant. Some of the flow works yo, some don't. Hit and miss, a little long in the tooth. There is some clipping on the vocals at spots, and that more than anything makes it sound like it's recorded on your home stereo. The groove ain't bad, piano sparseness is kind of cool, but you have to really support that empty space with kickass performances.
No vote I'm afraid.

Calfbourg
Some really cool elements but I want more songness. If this is supposed to be all Trailblazin' cuz it's like crazy sounds and non-structure like, well, I guess if you say so. Otherwise, what else have you got to say for this? Cool sounds, neat reversing and panning and use of verb to space it all out and bring it close, but otherwise, not much going on. I'm sure fans of the genre may disagree, but I find it to be shallow and I know you are capable of better stuff! Looking forward to more from you...

Well, not sure who to vote for. It's between J$ and Draft. There will have to be a listen-off later this week.

Out.

tonetripper · Post by **tonetripper** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 4:36 pm

DJ Sponge feat. RyGuy - Sultry groove of the rap is A-list and the piano is a nice touch. Sometimes the hot rap parts and popped Ps kind of take away from it's potential hi-fi ability. Which kind of belittles the concept. Trailblazin'? Hmmmm. Stoned rapper guy? For the title? I don't think so. Not cuz you"re stoned but cuz I'm not feeling it for the title.

J$ - Like 60s British prog rock in ways. Totally dig the guitar picking moment in the reprise of the verse. The cheesy keys sound sometimes doesn't make tonetripper happy. Trippy, strange and retro at times like only J$ can do. Vocals are a bit hot. I'm indifferent.

The Miasmatics - This is like a much more out of tune Tom Waits in many ways meets 60's British Rock Music (wonder why?

). I can imagine this colourful daisy stage with guys in bell-bottoms, long hair with go-go dancers amongst you. I like it most times and feel it builds with the character, but other times it just sounds like you should work maybe a bit harder to be on key. It would take it from ok music to awesome music. The cool factor is all over this and may just get my vote cuz of it. I think the thing inhibiting it is that I don't feel as though the build gets much bigger than it started. Kind of ambles on aimlessly. A good aimlessly. Hmmmmm. Possible vote.

Draft (Us) - Big shout out to my man Peaks in Valleys for the awesome chorus, guitars and the C-Monster for the skin management. We were going for some cheese as rockenest as we could for where the Beds led us. Kind of accidental cheese. Sometimes rockin' out rules!!

Calfborg - Awesome sounds first off. Eerie minimalism. The Harp type moment is especially cool with the Dr Who theme song cross-over. My beef is that in an instrumental such as this one I can hear the title in the tune for some reason, but I could also hear the other titles for this week's competition in it as well while I listened. Tough break, cuz I was that close to hittin' the vote button. Keeper.

Love the smaller fights. Allows me to mull over my decision better cuz less ones to weed out (no pun intended Ry Guy

). I thought all the submissions were cool in their own right. Atleast for noise floor purposes (although I want to work on mine - I thought the drum parts were not recorded as good as they could have been - not your parts C!!! - still understanding my room - very live).

My favourite was ours cuz the chorus is sooooo hooky. I voted for The Miasmatics for the coolness instead. Calfborg got third for chasing down the sonics in a somewhat proper way IMH to define a song as an instrumental (a difficult dream). Followed by J$ reviving the past through new eyes then DJ Sponge feat. Ry Guy .

Jam on.

- Pablo[/i]

j$ · Post by j$ » Wed Oct 06, 2004 12:55 am

Peaks in Valleys wrote: Maybe the whole track could use some comp. Certainly the vox, with a little bass roll-off.

Thanks for the review, but I know absoutely nothing about production, so could you tell me what comp is .. oh, compression! So bass roll off at what frequency, roughly? I'll try it and see if it makes a difference. The guitar (acoustic guitar, two seperate takes, run through a distorter unit, bounced into the same track) was pretty heavily compressed. Everything else is MIDI and I tend not to compress that, and I leave my vocals alone because they tend to go a bit mulchy in the transfer to mp3 if I've compressed them first.

MP3 = enough compression to be going on with?

I'm coming to the conclusion that the compression/maximizer units in my audio editor are big pants and I have to a)get a better one and b)get a book on production techniques. Any recommendations? Or did the recording tips thread survive the transfer?

j$

j$ · Post by j$ » Wed Oct 06, 2004 4:09 am

king_arthur wrote:JOHNNY CASHPOINT: ... if I had a bunch of studio time, I'd love to get
just the vocal track from you and build a whole new arrangement
underneath it, something with a much stronger rock rhythm to
it...

Meant to say, if you want the vocal track in case you ever get a chance to tinker with it (in a studio or at home) then you're more than welcome to it.

j$

thehipcola · Post by **thehipcola** » Wed Oct 06, 2004 8:23 am

J$:

Compression is funny stuff and hard to master. And I am no expert at ALL, so take what I tell you with a grain of salt..it may or may not be accurate.

I usually compress my vocals around 4:1 (if memory serves) ratio. That's about all I can tell you, it helps. The attack and release times I can check for you (I don't recall at the moment) and I play with the threshold and output gain until they sound nice. It can have the effect of bringing out the breath at the end of sung words or lines because it brings up the quiet parts and pushes the heavy parts lower (laymans terms).

My technique is really unscientific, play with it until it sounds good. Sometiems that probably means my settings are retarded and engineers will tell you that I'm an idiot, but hey~ if it sounds good, it sounds good.

I would start with rolling off the bass around 150-180 hz for your voice and see how that allows you to fit the vocals in a mix. It will make them sound thinner on their own, but you'll be surprised at how they work in a mix, you won't really notice as much the missing lower end information.

I hope that clarifies as opposed to confuses you... If you like, pm me and i'll get the specific settings on my compressor to try on yours. It probably will do the job just fine.

Ciao

Buffalo Granola Bars ( Trailblazin' )

Buffalo Granola Bars ( Trailblazin' )

The votes from the Balham jury...

Reviews:

J$ and compression