The Italian guy from friends cast to play Tootsie (btchd up)

Discuss upcoming, current, and previous song fights.
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Billy's Little Trip
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Re: The Italian guy from friends cast to play Tootsie (btchd

Post by Billy's Little Trip »

heh, that's a perfect example, Glennny.

Might be a fun subject to continue in the "help and Apu" section. I looked up both the Vig and Albini mixes of Smells Like Teen Spirit for s&g. It's pretty interesting for those into mixing and production. But I'll "try" to stay on topic. :D
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Re: The Italian guy from friends cast to play Tootsie (btchd

Post by chocolatechips »

glennny wrote:Sounds like the classic Beatles vs Beach Boys debate.
I'm not sure I get the context of this quote, but that sounds like a fun debate. I'm definitely on the side of The Beatles but I love some of The Beach Boys stuff too. :mrgreen:
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Re: The Italian guy from friends cast to play Tootsie (btchd

Post by j$ »

Two fights in a row, spectacularly failed to get a song in on time ... here is my little effort. Get well, man!

http://www.johnnycashpoint.com/509012/jc_jgbu.mp3
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Re: The Italian guy from friends cast to play Tootsie (btchd

Post by glennny »

Chocolate Chips,

If you are Mr 60's mono, you are decidedly on the Beach Boys side. You can still like the Beatles, but your production style certainly leans more Wilson than Martin.

I love them both, but they are way different.
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Re: The Italian guy from friends cast to play Tootsie (btchd

Post by Billy's Little Trip »

glennny wrote:I love them both, but they are way different.
My feelings about Albini and Vig.

Here's another thought from my brain spaghetti I just thought about. Well, actually I thought about it before, but just now remembered I thought about it before, so I'll type it.
Vig is a drummer. Always behind the kit. Mixes drums very centered. Ken is a drummer.
Albini is a guitar player/singer. Always with the kit behind him. Mixes drums wide with cymbals panned. I'm a guitar player/singer.

Could that have anything to do with it? ....Who knows these thing? :)
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Re: The Italian guy from friends cast to play Tootsie (btchd

Post by ken »

Billy's Little Trip wrote:And yes, knowing Ken, it's exactly how he likes it or he wouldn't do it. He's pretty technical. But so am I, thanks to him. Cheers to independent thinking. ;)
BSS drums are usually mono for practical reasons. I think in some ways it is a hold out from when we didn't have enough inputs to cover the entire band. When we started out playing together we often only had 4-6 inputs for the whole band playing live, which sometimes included live vocals. Just using 3 tracks for 2 guitars and bass left three for drums. I guess I could have done stereo overheads and kick, but we also had a different set up every week, we didn't have as stable of a jam space as we do now. I didn't want to worry about how the other instruments bled into the drum mics, so mono works really well. Also, if you haven't noticed, as a drummer, I rarely play the toms, which in some ways gives a lot of the stereo information. There are BSS songs with stereo drums. I will often re-mic up the kit with stereo overheads if the drums aren't played live with the rest of the guys, but for the most part, BSS songs start with at least a couple of us playing live, usually drums, guitar, and bass.

Overall, Mono drums are just a lot easier to mic and mix. With the short time we have to set up, write a song, play our parts well, overdub, edit, mix, and submit, it is just a lot simpler to keep the drums in mono.

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Re: The Italian guy from friends cast to play Tootsie (btchd

Post by Billy's Little Trip »

So it's a matter of convenience. “Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.” — Leonardo da Vinci
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Re: The Italian guy from friends cast to play Tootsie (btchd

Post by furrypedro »

Gregg: I like the line "he still has a pecker and one good hand". S'all you really need in life isn't it? Should we expect rapping from the man himself next week then? Anyway, the song's okay, doesn't touch me but it's not a bad job. I think the guitars take up a bit too much room, not sure how, too loud? too central? Either way, they seem to be battling against each other and it overwhelms the song.

Psychic Soup:
Aww, you didn't even do a bassline this week! This is an improvement on last week's song imo, purely cos the melody line is better, but you pretty much run out of ideas after about 30 seconds. I recommend studying your influences a little more, deconstruct them a bit to find out what's going on in your favourite tracks that makes them compelling. Even if they sound minimal I guarantee there's more happening than you think. When I recommend adding more things to your songs don't think that every single element needs to jump out at you, it could just be beefing up a sound that's already there by doubling it up, or some very subtle atmospherics or rhythmic stuff in the background. Sometimes the best tracks have stuff that you don't even notice that just adds something you can't put your finger on. Try working out what that is.

What Tribe: This sounds accomplished, but the ploddy middle-of-the-road rock wasn't really doing anything for me. The chorus vocals got my attention when they double up. In fact although this mix sounds a touch muddy, overall it is very well done, everything in it's right place. Well played, well sung. Could use a bit more treble overall perhaps? I know this isn't mixfight. I'm just in a mix mood at the moment.

Paco:
Cool. Love the backing vox. This sounds totally britpop and less Zappa than you normally do. Like the (not-remotely-British) Wannadies or something. Possible vote. Glennny's gonna hate me for this cos I always slag him off for soloing but yours kicks ass.

Glennny: Was this all recorded on your ipad? You're lovin that double bass at the moment aren't you. What have you been listening to recently, Sting? Y'know, there are other songwriters I prefer on SF but for all your fiddly instrumentation and meandering you do write some bloody earworming choruses. Same thing happened with the Daddybop Hatchet and I've got a terrible feeling I'm gonna have this in my head tomorrow. Glad you enjoyed the outro to my song btw. [edit: Sorry, your song didn't get stuck in my head after all. Blame this guy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKYpepxGkyY ]

Choco chips: I'm still on the fence about your music. I like your approach to recording. Your arangements are interesting, not a hint of C&W in sight which comforts me, but I can't decide whether I like the song or not. I'll get back to you on that one. You keep writing em, I'll keep listening.

Klownhole: That's a pretty badass bass sound. I like the way the guitars all groan and swirl.

Bombernaughts: This is catchy, almost annoyingly so, and well-produced.

Hiss Bruvvas:
This is cool, but I was hoping for a more in-your-face drum sound and when the band kicked in it sounded a bit weak.

G.U.N.Z: This is basically "Blue Monday" isn't it? If you're going to rip off melodies I recommend recreating them in a style that's different from the song your stealing to make it less obvious. I'm not saying don't steal melodies. I do it all the fucking time. Making an electronic track that steals from one of the most famous electronic songs of all time isn't particularly subtle. Also, what's with the gargantuan guitar solo? Show a little restraint.

Finding Nemoy: I love this when it speeds up. I think you write way better songs when you're doing it by yourself. You have buckets of charm with the things that you write about and your lyrical flow etc. I worry sometimes when you're writing with the WSA for example that you play it safe or do what you think we want to hear rather than doing what you do best. This makes me smile in a similar way to your other songs Have Mine and All The Same, etc.

Public Porking: Best band name of the week. Really loud recording. Bit sloppy, were you going for that? When the chorus kicks in it seems to fall into place, then the verse comes back all shambolic again. This is better when you're just playing the beat straight, the groove works better. This is kinda cool.

Wreckdom: I never know what to expect from you guys. This is surprisingly poppy. Reminds me of Bran Van 3000 or Len. I like it. It's schmoove and sunny. I'm gonna vote for this sumbitch. Good job!

Cody Walker Junior senior:
Not my bag but good all the same. It makes me wanna go dig out my one My Morning Jacket cd.

BSS: Sounds like a Martin + Glen effort. Obviously it would've been nice to have live drums, but it's all fine. The verse doesn't do much for me at all, but the chorus is first class, both in the vocals and the guitar layering, I really wish you'd done a Suede (or the London Suede rather) and made the chorus half of the song. It's the best bit and it comes and goes all too fleetingly. The whole song very much has an early-mid 90's indie/grunge vibe about it. I'm guessing Sam did the synths, nice.

Billy and the Psychos:
Tight as hell, probably the best recording of the fight. My money's on this for the win. The contrast between the louch funky verse and anthemic chorus is very well balanced. I love the way the vocals and drums synchronise at the end of the chorus. I can't not vote for this really.


Votes go to Billy, Wreckdom, Nemoy. I'm on the fence about Paco, but cos I'm generous I'll throw one his way. If we were back in the 1 vote old days I would've gone for Wreckdom.
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Re: The Italian guy from friends cast to play Tootsie (btchd

Post by glennny »

Joeys All Bitched Up

Berkeley Social Scene- This is awesome! Again I had nothing to do with this entry. I’m having Tuesday issues. These are live drums aren’t they? This gets a vote. I thought this was a winner before I heard the competition, now I think it’s a contender.

Billy & the Psychotics- Love this song. It rocks! DJ’s voice is awesome! I still think your weak link is a catchy vocal melody. This gets a vote.

Bombernaughts- I enjoyed this. Vocals are a bit loud in the mix. I want louder bass and drums in my dance tunes. Fun!

Chocolate Chips- Catchy and cute. Maybe a bit repetitive.

Cody Walker Jr.- Nice country moaning. I wish the drums were tight and in perfect time, their looseness kind of ruins it for me. I still really like this!

Finding Nemoy- I don’t know where Frisbee ends and Kill Me Sarah begins, but it doesn’t matter. I love this! Is that KMS on the backing vocals? I love your lyrics and melodies! Big Vote!

Glennny- Hey this is me by myself. Yes this is all on my iPad2. Drums are not exactly programmed. They are played virtually on virtual drums then quantized to fix the timing mistakes. The double bass is a virtual double bass. Virtual piano. Real little Spanish guitar through the ipad2 microphone. Real vocals through the ipad2 mic also. I like the music a lot. Originally I wrote this in hopes of getting Erin on vocals, but alas she was busy.

Gregg- Sloppy bar rock. Very enjoyable however! Nice drawl! I like the acoustic and electric guitar interplay. Good Stuff!

GUNS- You know it wasn’t Blue Monday until Niveous sent me his vocals. I decided to keep the verses and redo the choruses with my vocals. I’m very frustrated with my Mac Garageband. I don’t get why when I mix on the iPad2 it sounds like my project. Then when I mix on the Mac the mp3 is super quiet and a lot of the nuance in the high end is killed. I dig this song regardless of the mix issues. 32 bar solo is about right in my book. However I listen to more instrumental music than I do music with vocals. I was stoked to get Niv vocals in the mix. I think Niv wrote some very cool lyrics for this.

Hiss Brothers- Straight and fun.

Klownhole- Monster Rock! You guys make a lot more sense live than on a recording. This is almost ambient. I enjoy this.

Paco del Stinko- Holy dynamics Batman! Can you say factual without rhyming it with actual? This is awesome! Absolutley gets a vote. Probably my 2nd favorite of the fight. The harmonized lick ending the chorus is my favorite bit. All the bits are so tasty and fun! Great bridge! Best solo of the fight! Awesome! Vote!

Psychic Soup- Wow this is so much better on headphones than in the truck. I liked this in the truck , I really like it on headphones! I wish Cock was singing. The Freakazoid robot vocals are a bit of a bummer. Cool music, wish there was a strong vocal to accompany it.

Public Porking- Terrible recording! Awesome song! I’m glad someone took the Kangaroo route. That was my initial thought, but I couldn’t make it work. Great melodies, cool riffs! Please tell me you’re going to do a proper recording!

What Tribe- Solid song. I especially like the bass playing. Often the guitars are too quiet. I like the 2 vocal styles together. Same guy? Good stuff!

Wreckdom- I enjoy this. The sax is nice. Is that J-FLO? The chorus is weak, sounds like you’re having fun though. Lots of nice bits, but short of a vote I’m afraid.

The Clear Freaking Winner:

Balance Lost- Off the bat this was my favorite song. My affinity for this song has only grown deeper. I have listened to this no less than a hundred times. Every commute to and from work gets a good 6 or 7. Part of that is that it is so super short that it leaves me wanting more a lot more. You probably knew I would love this. This is the genre where your tastes and mine converge. This has a lot of Cap’n Jazz in it. There’s also the spirit of the 1st At the Drive In record. Then there’s that ending which is on par with the end of Carry the Zero. I am baffled and dumbfounded how much awesome you squeezed into 2 minutes. The drums are spot on, the fills are perfect. My only minor complaint is that overall I wish there was more low end, a deeper kick and deeper bass, but as you noted I’m addicted to double bass these days. This is like some awesome Chicago band circa 1998 which somehow got a Brittish dude to sing. By the way holy crap these vocals are awesome, you’re singing with intensity and the pitch is on. I haven’t loved a song fight song this much since your “911 inside job”, but I think I like this more. You’re on fire man! No brakes was awesome too! I hope the fact you wrote reviews means you finished another song. As you should know because you are wise, just because I love something, doesn’t mean the rest of the community will share my appreciation. Its all about the whole band coming together on those unison riffs at the end. To add the Hammond organ was genius!

Winner in my book :
Balance Lost

Votes:
BSS
Finding Nemoy
Billy & P
Paco
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Re: The Italian guy from friends cast to play Tootsie (btchd

Post by ken »

furrypedro wrote:BSS: Sounds like a Martin + Glen effort. Obviously it would've been nice to have live drums, but it's all fine. The verse doesn't do much for me at all, but the chorus is first class, both in the vocals and the guitar layering, I really wish you'd done a Suede (or the London Suede rather) and made the chorus half of the song. It's the best bit and it comes and goes all too fleetingly. The whole song very much has an early-mid 90's indie/grunge vibe about it. I'm guessing Sam did the synths, nice.
Live drums this week. I can't really think of the last time (if ever) BSS used fake drums for an entire song. I guess my playing is a little simple this week. Maybe the mixing is a little too tight.

Let's see what happened this week:
Martin played rhythm guitar, bass, and sang.
Ken played drums and synths
Sam played lead guitar overdubs.
Glen provided moral support.
Erin co-wrote the lyrics.

Thanks for all the comments.

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Re: The Italian guy from friends cast to play Tootsie (btchd

Post by Billy's Little Trip »

glennny wrote: Billy & the Psychotics- Love this song. It rocks! DJ’s voice is awesome! I still think your weak link is a catchy vocal melody. This gets a vote.
Thanks, Glennny! We do BatP vocal melodies. Maybe one of these days we'll do a cover from the sound of music and blow your "catchy vocal melody" socks off. :D

And thanks to you too, FurryPeter. When Dee and I are working on a song, we really don't engineer things in the creative process. We pretty much let the song guide our decisions and try not to fight the song's flow. It can be heart wrenching when one of us have something clever and awesome, yet the song is rejecting it. The hardest thing ever is to delete something that individually is killer and you're proud of it's ego boosting brilliance, yet it's not worth a shit to the song. This song involved some negotiations between unseen entities and human life forms before all involved were satisfied. Sometimes a riff, rhythm, lyric or melody that inspired and drove the song to evolve, has to go. Then when the song is happy and we are too, it's time to let the heart and soul go to sleep and let the robot's brain spaghetti mix and produce.

Thanks you two. It's nice to hear two people I respect musically saying you like our song. And taking the time to review. I can't seem to make the time, although this week the songs are all great and quite eclectic. ;)
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Re: The Italian guy from friends cast to play Tootsie (btchd

Post by chocolatechips »

Billy's Little Trip wrote:We do BatP vocal melodies.
What's BatP mean?
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Re: The Italian guy from friends cast to play Tootsie (btchd

Post by Niveous »

BatP=Billy and the Psychotics. Or BLT could've have been referring to something he does with bat pee. I wouldn't be too surprised if that were the case. Maybe you use it like a mouthwash? Gargle it and you sing better. Maybe ya drink it and it coats your vocal chords giving your harmonies that little extra something?
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Re: The Italian guy from friends cast to play Tootsie (btchd

Post by chocolatechips »

Ah ... that makes sense. I thought it was some sort of musical acronym I wasn't aware of.
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Re: The Italian guy from friends cast to play Tootsie (btchd

Post by Billy's Little Trip »

Niveous wrote:BatP=Billy and the Psychotics. Or BLT could've have been referring to something he does with bat pee. I wouldn't be too surprised if that were the case. Maybe you use it like a mouthwash? Gargle it and you sing better. Maybe ya drink it and it coats your vocal chords giving your harmonies that little extra something?
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Re: The Italian guy from friends cast to play Tootsie (btchd

Post by Paco Del Stinko »

Balance Lost Probably the tightest bagpipe playing that I've ever heard, but I'm sure it's keyboard work. Or guitars. Or both. Wait: there's no bagpipe? Well, maybe there should be. Yeah, you're on a roll here. Melody, energy, unintelligable lyrics. I've (now) long been a fan of your guitar playing, I could not begin to imitate your style. Dig this tune very much, I have nothing to suggest for improvement.


Berkeley Social Scene I dunno. This sounds great, is well played but it's very moody, even mopey. I like the chorus enough but am not dragged into the song. It improves after several listens but wasn't posted on day one when I heard the fight no less than five times. Anyway, I think this is an album cut, not a single. If I were to do anything to it, I'd repeat the end chorus one or two more times and layer in counterpuntal guitars to try and send it off high, wanting you to come back and visit again.


Billy and the Psychotics I understand the criticisms of no hook. It's plenty melodic throughout, it just doesn't stick to your coconut too long afterwards. But the song is wonderfully arranged and peformed (except the guitar solo ;) ) Great dynamics and the clean guitars are tasty sweet and D's harmonies are tasty good. My only suggestion would be to stretch out the quiet bridge a tad. Of course, we can do that live...right?


Bombernaughts Is this a McChicken production? Noticeably absent from this week's fight after recent comments about extended dance tunes. Hmm. Pefect for club scene stuff, where I don't go. The chorus is ctchy, almost annoyingly enough to be professional. Well produced and pulled off, this is good work. I would add a scary Joey attack in there: screaming guitar solo or synth torture. But that's me and I don't always understand.


Chocolate Chips This is good for the quick toss-together that you did. I'd have a HUGE bass (synth,stringed,whatever) come sliding in right after the frst time you mention Joey. Maybe the beat could wait to start at that time, too. Catchy, this might be worth your time to re-examine later.


Cody Walker Jr. Well, if you wanted to, you could work this into a fine tune as the skeleton is good. The lyrics wimp out as they go, and I understand that you winged them, but the concept is there. But the downhome feel could sell this if re-worked. I like how you repeat please at the end, this could be secret hook attack in your re-do.


Finding Nemoy I could only suggest working on some phrasing during lines (from the guy who has terrible phrasing) and adding some kind of descending bassline. I don't know where it'd go to, but I think it'd work. The bassline, that is. Sounds nice otherwise, that great bittersweet feel that you pull off so nicely.


glennny Gee, jazzy guy lately, eh? What great playing throughout. Are the keys done live? That's impressive, Glenno. I have been thinking for weeks that I'd like to do a guitar/voice solo but keep forgetting, but now can't after you did. Bastard! I'd only suggest working vocal delivery, as you probably know, but good work here. Maybe perfect a chorus, line by line, and cut and paste it.


Gregg Boethin I can't hep but want to hear this a BPM faster, I think it'd tighten it up a bit. But then, again, it'd lose that wobbly feel. But perhaps there's too much wobble. Or muddy bottom. Some simple backing vocals might fit in here, staggered in between the main lines. I dig your Stonesy southern-ish rock and Monks Of Doom vocals, this would punch harder with a real band.


G.U.N.S. Niv from outer space? Kind of a soft production, it would tear your face off with a more aggressive attack, with that synthy rhythm line and fuzz guitars. The guitar solo is wonderfully Glenn and shows his Alex Lifeson side at times, but the backing track loses some momentum during that section. Maybe even jast a faster hi-hat during the lead to keep things propelled and soaring.


The Hiss Brothers I like the no bullshit progression and especially how it gets flipped around, intentionally or not. Needs some backing vocals, not necessarily harmonized, but a mob of goons on the line about Joey not just at the end. Stagger them at the end. I like the guitar sound until after the lead. Then I don't care for it. Weird. Kudos for real drums.


Klownhole I love the progressions here and the underwater backwards whale sound guitar is great. And, thankfully, the distorted bass is not absent. Sweet, sweet neck-punching. I'd like to hear a quiet breakdown, gentle dynamics, and maybe a creepy narrative about Joey, rebuilding into an explosive return of the main progressions. And screaming.


Paco del Stinko Yes, I wrote the title down wrong and wrote lines incorrectly as a result. Strat through Portly Cadet as main guitar and real MOOG lines. I miss my real drums. :( Everybody know where the Ocean State is? No peeking!


Psychic Soup This sounds nice, and all, but seems like a song made for one person to listen to while walking and wearing an ipod. Know what I mean? Is it dance music? I dunno. Re-submit next week with whatever the title is and you'll be all set!


Public Porking I see you labeled this demo amd that's good, cuase this is just a very rough draft, obviously. There're nice hooks here and bits of tasty melody. I love the progression and that weird clangy sound that comes and goes. The instrumentaton is a nice combo, clean guitar and distorted bass. Man, this song'll be fun if you work on it. Dynamics, odd lyrics. I can only suggest you do just that. Practice all the parts, tighten them up. re-record. Let us know, ok?


What Tribe Moody, Pink Folyd/Radiohead-ish at times. I'd like to hear this pushed further out into space during the verses and maybe a select chorus that leads into a bridge or something: echoes, layeers, maybe flanged...something. Maybe a quiet breakdown. If not, whittle a minute off of it and work on the backing vocals.


WreckdoM I wasn't sure this was you guys at first, until the vocals came in. I agree with whoever said they'd vote for this if it were still single vote days. Great story, funny, and that heady supporting track is sweet. There's a lot going on with guitar lines and sax sounds. I'd only suggest tightening up the vocal phrasing and maybe the guest vocal delivery. Could have a bit more ham involved, but not to the point of a deli platter. Great work.
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Re: The Italian guy from friends cast to play Tootsie (btchd

Post by Billy's Little Trip »

Paco Del Stinko wrote: (except the guitar solo ;) )
You jelly? Image

No reviews yet, but I like the extra time you put into mixing and production on your song, it's a good'n. Yes, I noticed your new hairdo, darlin'. ;)
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furrypedro
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Re: The Italian guy from friends cast to play Tootsie (btchd

Post by furrypedro »

I'm super flattered by the comments from Paco and Glennny, thanks guys. I'm always trying to hit the sweet spots with my guitaring and I love the fact that it holds a bit of mystery for people too. Especially when you are such accomplished guitarists. Paco, I can teach you but I'd have to charge ;)

Looks like I was totally wrong about the BSS effort on a number of counts. I second Charlie on it being one you should revisit/redo - see my earlier comments.

I also cannot see what foundations the "no hook" claims have as far as the Billy/DJ tune goes. It's probably the most MTV ready song I've heard here in time, yo (admittedly, I've been away for a time).
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Re: The Italian guy from friends cast to play Tootsie (btchd

Post by Billy's Little Trip »

I never quite understand the "no hook" with some of our songs. Which is probably why I don't meet some people's criteria, as far as that goes. And Paco has been telling me this from day one I believe.
Personally, I consider the riff on the first half a hook. The "not having it come back again after the first chorus" is more artistic expression in arrangement. I also consider the singy songy chorus a hook. So yeah, I know we've all talked about this before, but I still scratch my head some times. I remember ending my thoughts on this from something the great and mighty Roymond said about BatP. "their whole song is the hook", lol.

....it's like, it's hard to see a tree amongst a forest full of identical trees. It'd be great if someone would come up with a good quote describing that situation. I'd totally use the balls out of it, dude! :P
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RangerDenni
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Re: The Italian guy from friends cast to play Tootsie (btchd

Post by RangerDenni »

Thank you for all these comments and all the great songs. I have thoughts. I should like to review even if I miss it and the new fight goes up. Stay tuna-ed.

ps. re: the hook thing.... when someone tells me I have written something "hooky" I am surprised. When I didn't, I am not. I'm trying to write things that stick in the mind. When I try less hard the Ear Worms come better. Having guitars in the inbox helps but it's touch and go with me. I'm kind of a layer-y, lyric-y writer; and in BatP ;) we go back and forth about this topic, but only a little bit :)
"Really interesting how the point you’re making slowly emerges like Martin Sheen from the mud in Apocalypse Now..." ~j$
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Re: The Italian guy from friends cast to play Tootsie (btchd

Post by furrypedro »

Dammit, 2nd again! I need to start friend trickling (like flooding only more subtle). That said, Batpee totally deserved it. I will kick your ass next fight tho :)
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Re: The Italian guy from friends cast to play Tootsie (btchd

Post by RangerDenni »

"...all bitched up..wait that didn't come out right..." HAHAHAHA. That's hilarical.

Halfway thru reviews with no reason to quit now.
"Really interesting how the point you’re making slowly emerges like Martin Sheen from the mud in Apocalypse Now..." ~j$
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