Nur Ein IX Round Two "Stop (You're Killing Me)"

[Caravan Ray]

If I understood things right from the coaching I was given earlier in the thread:

The verses are in Am (using chords Am Dm E)
and the chorus and guitar solo are in A (A D E)
the breakdown bit at the end of the chorus (Oh what a lovely way to die) is G D A Em G A - I think that is A major changing to A minor - but not sure.

[JonPorobil]

Its a bit close to the line for requesting clarification? I'm assuming some people won't get a chance to respond.

The scores are due tomorrow at midnight, so there's still more than 24 hours to answer.

Some of the songs left the judges puzzled as to challenge relevance, but we don't want to single anyone out, so this is just a general call for the participants to lobby on their own behalves.

[Ross]

a general call for the participants to lobby on their own behalves.

Pick me! Pick me!

Well, not for disqualification - for something good!

[Ross]

The verses are in Am (using chords Am Dm E)

The E major chord worked good, yeah?

[BoffoYux]

I'm hosting the Nur Ein IX Round 2 Listening Party on UStream right now!
Show starts at 9 pm EST.
(West coasters wanted a little time to get home from work, so we're one hour later)
Preshow is starting around 8:30ish. It's -4 UTC for those out of the States.
Drop on in if you have some time.
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/nur-ein
The chat room is on UStream if you have an account, or on Chatzy
http://us19.chatzy.com/87724745758226
There also is the irc here at SongFight
http://jan-krueger.net/sf-irc

[Rabid Garfunkel]

Song’s in B. Just B, all the way through. Lines 1&3 of the verses has descending Bmaj phrase on the banjo, which echoes in advance (?!?) the chorus thing, lines 2&4 a descending Bmin phrase under them.

[Manhattan Glutton]

I met the challenge by both interpretations mentioned earlier. The last line of the chorus is repeated as the inverse of the second-last line of the chorus, and the last verse/chorus is the inverse of the first.

[RangerDenni]

While I think it's sort of comical that we are lobbying with scores for our own tunes, when we should be working on the next tunes; I'm going to go ahead and just say that my tune has to do with the repetition of a phrase, which you can see because I posted my lyrics in the lyrics thread. I used the key of E. I use E Major and E minor. I also use the sixth scale degree to move through so that I can play with the third in my melodic line during one of the two repeated phrases, the second of which "to me,") resolves on E major and E minor, respectively.

I was entertained by the conversation in the thread that perhaps it would not do to fulfill the challenge by merely going back-and-forth on something like an E major / E minor (I'm paraphrasing, I believe). I wondered, "hmmmm. Really?" So I went to the piano to see if this was indeed so. I realized that playing with the third of a key and the concept of a repeating pattern could indeed be done; and that on the contrary, it was a really effective tool to propel a song along - particularly for the types of songs I do sometimes where the layering is really minimal and the lyrics are a bit vague and emotional in tone and driven by the pressure of the singing-performance and the sparseness of the piano I make. I could have even done it utilizing a drone if I'd wanted to - and effectively, but I did need a little more harmonic sauce, as it turns out. The addition of altered chords further colored the fluidity of my usage of the G/G# in the key of E. I liked that there was discussion, because my exploration on E/e ended up being a great vehicle for this series of questions (what I think of as my first repetition - my "I don't know what..." s) - that my character had concerning a budding hypothetical situation in her life. One of those sorts of dilemmas that you try to play it cool through ... but really, it just kinda kills you.

In addition to this, I asked Ross Durand about the spelling of one of my weird chords on the root of F, we mused over the song better expressing itself in the key of C - which seemed interesting because it ends in B - the V of E. Either way, it is in a B originally meant to be a bridge where I finally return to the title and this is where the character of the song finally ends her journey through the repeated questions and the confusion represented by the inability to commit to the sonority of a true key. I liked how it ended here, and again we have BLT to thank for this because he helped me with some last minute secret sauce on top of the song that made it have a nice atmosphere and better volume. I believe this is what the song faeries wanted though. So there is your explanation for this.

[Vincent Von F.]

Hi everybody.

Mi song goes in an Am to F progression on the verses, then changes to Am-C-F-E, and the chorus goes in A-G#-C#m-F#-B7-E

Also, there's a little bridge in the middle of the song that goes A#-Am,


I hope that's enough for the judges. If there's any other question, please let me know.

And thanks a lot for the feedback in this round and in round one. Almost all of the reviews have been positive for me in a way of learning and rewarding the lots of work I put on this songs (I'm a begginner on this). I try to improve each day. Although is exhausting, this is really lots of fun and growing as a musician and writer.

Sorry I don't write more here. Work, family and recording leave me so little time.

Nur Ein!

[cookie]

Well, as far as I remember *ahem* my chords in the chorus (But you won't listen and so on) are: D A G Bb ebm bbm C so it changes from D major to a eb minor-something; then the lyrics repeat and I played bm f#m G bm D A G F#. The last chorus only has that b minor-ish thing bm f#m G A bm f#m G A ending on B. Picardy third ftw
The verses and bridge are in plain D major without anything special.
I can only hope that somewhere in this confusion I also met the actual challenge

[JonPorobil]

(Warning: incoming judge ramble about the meaning of the challenge...)

I'll give you all the benefit of the doubt and agree that nobody seems to have failed the challenge on purpose. And I'll also admit that discussing the overall modality (aka the "majorness" or "minorness") of certain portions of these songs turns out to have been trickier than we anticipated. I think some entrants seemed to have thrown in some minor chords and expected that to count as a key change. But when I listen, my overall impression of the modality isn't determined by the chord progression, but rather by melody. Sometimes it's the vocal melody, and sometimes it's a lead instrument of some sort. I suppose in theory a song's modality could be conveyed by something more subtle, but in the instances where the participants tried that, by and large it went over the panel's heads.

All of which is my rambling way of saying: Yes, some of you handled the challenge "better" than others did, and that will probably show up in my rankings.

Nur Ein's rules don't actually prescribe a punishment for failing a challenge, nor any judging guidelines, so every judge seems free to to determine how important the challenge is, and how to penalize for a perceived failure to meet the challenge. For instance, Manhattan Glutton still holds a grudge about the time Balance Lost received virtually no penalty for what MG perceived as a failure to meet the challenge. On the other hand, Sid Dennison (which was Caravan Ray's nom de guerre a few years ago) once incorporated the challenge by recontextualizing the source material into a brief opening sketch and then doing a two-minute punk song about how he doesn't like rules. He didn't survive that round.

For my part, I don't see any reason to "disqualify" anyone on the basis of a challenge*. However, particularly creative or satisfying interpretations of the challenge tend to get good reviews from this judge. As a side effect, yes, anyone whose implementation of the challenge isn't awesome—maybe it doesn't add anything to the song, or maybe it's just the most obvious of all possible interpretations—those songs are indirectly penalized, since the rankings are a zero-sum game.

I don't want to weigh in on who did the challenge better than others this week (at least, not until the results are posted), but I'm not afraid to list some of my favorite interpretations of title and challenge together:

John Benjamin Band - "The Blitz" http://nurein.songfight.net/nureiniii/tb/jbb_tb.mp3
The challenge was to use choral vocals, so JB made his lyrics about a whole city in war-torn Poland refusing to cower in fear. It's gorgeous, and one of my favorite Nur Ein songs ever.

Jon Eric - "Time to Panic" http://nurein.songfight.net/nureinv/ttp/joneric_ttp.mp3
Yeah, I'm including myself.... The challenge was to include counting, so I did a song about a guy with severe rage issues and identity dissociation, hinged on the hook "One, two, ten / Time to panic again." It's my only Nur Ein round victory.

Milo Dunderville - "Spanish Lessons" http://nurein.songfight.net/nureinv/sl/ ... lle_sl.mp3
The challenge was to use accelerando, so Milo made his song about a teenager who dreams of fleeing a small town for somewhere more exotic. The song speeds up as he gets lost in his fantasy about his life in Spain.

Boop Boop - "97" http://nurein.songfight.net/nureinv/97/boopboop_97.mp3
The challenge was to use an "interesting" guest, so Ben recorded various family members saying the word "ninety-seven," then patched them together as in a children's show. As a bonus, his song was 97 seconds long on the nose.

Ross Durand - "Architect" http://nurein.songfight.net/nureinvii/a ... rand_a.mp3
The challenge was to incorporate a round, so Ross wrote his song about Sarah Winchester, who built the "Winchester Mystery House," an architectural marvel of unnecessary staircases, ells, wings, and just a general jumbled mess of a house. Combining the title with that subject matter made the round feel almost inevitable when it came around, and very satisfying.


*Nur Ein's rules also don't provide for any way to actually disqualify an entry, unless it's turned in past the deadline, hence the quotes around "disqualify." If I thought a song deserved to be disqualified, I would put it at the bottom of my list, and that would be that.

[Caravan Ray]

(On the other hand, Sid Dennison (which was Caravan Ray's nom de guerre a few years ago) once incorporated the challenge by recontextualizing the source material into a brief opening sketch and then doing a two-minute punk song about how he doesn't like rules. He didn't survive that round.

I still think I took the best approach there - since mine was the only song that week that didn't have the same annoying keyboard riff in it

[JonPorobil]

(On the other hand, Sid Dennison (which was Caravan Ray's nom de guerre a few years ago) once incorporated the challenge by recontextualizing the source material into a brief opening sketch and then doing a two-minute punk song about how he doesn't like rules. He didn't survive that round.

I still think I took the best approach there - since mine was the only song that week that didn't have the same annoying keyboard riff in it

I survived that round by like two points. If you'd taken the challenge more seriously and not incurred the wrath of the jury, you probably would have advanced and not me. So, for that I thank you. But it proves that the judges did not share your interpretation of the challenge.

[Manhattan Glutton]

For instance, Manhattan Glutton still holds a grudge about the time Balance Lost received virtually no penalty for what MG perceived as a failure to meet the challenge.

"Perceived"? Pah! If the assignment were to write a haiku, would you accept a 60 line poem?

[Rabid Garfunkel]

I think I contributed something horrible for that Sid Dennison entry…

Back to browsing drum sounds now. Just in case...

[Caravan Ray]

For instance, Manhattan Glutton still holds a grudge about the time Balance Lost received virtually no penalty for what MG perceived as a failure to meet the challenge.

"Perceived"? Pah! If the assignment were to write a haiku, would you accept a 60 line poem?

Maintain the rage

[Caravan Ray]

I think I contributed something horrible for that Sid Dennison entry…

Back to browsing drum sounds now. Just in case...

Yes - you were the sleazy record producer who got smashed over the head with a keyboard

[Manhattan Glutton]

At this point, the outrage is just a joke.

A joke that pisses me off every time I tell it.

[Niveous]

Boop Boop - "97" http://nurein.songfight.net/nureinv/97/joneric_97.mp3
The challenge was to use an "interesting" guest, so Ben recorded various family members saying the word "ninety-seven," then patched them together as in a children's show. As a bonus, his song was 97 seconds long on the nose.

Not family members, performers at the venue Goodbye Blue Monday, including Joe Crow Ryan.

[Ross]

(On the other hand, Sid Dennison (which was Caravan Ray's nom de guerre a few years ago) once incorporated the challenge by recontextualizing the source material into a brief opening sketch and then doing a two-minute punk song about how he doesn't like rules. He didn't survive that round.

I still think I took the best approach there - since mine was the only song that week that didn't have the same annoying keyboard riff in it

What song are we talking about?

[JonPorobil]

What song are we talking about?

"Not in This Lifetime."

[Ross]

Interesting, I seem to have been the one judge that did not put that song in the bottom 2.