Word Fight?

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sparks
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Post by sparks »

Yeah, if you couldn't guess, the artists up there are placeholders, for the moment. :) And there was a typoed mailto in the FAQ as heuristics noticed, but it's fixed.

Glad to see there's some general excitement over this--I was worried the first fight would be a no-show, but hopefully that will not be so.

Domain will be ready in a few days, and I'll be holding the first fight as soon as I've got that taken care of and as soon as I've fiddled with some templates for the actual entries. Read over the FAQ, as I said--if there are questions I didn't answer, I need to address them, so be sure to point them out.
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Post by JonPorobil »

What about fight length? I've been known to pump out sketches at will in a matter of hours, but more thought-out pieces of fiction often require a lot of effort, and the last thing we want to do is encourage people to jerk off and turn in the stains. :evil:
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Post by c hack »

Generic wrote: the last thing we want to do is encourage people to jerk off and turn in the stains. :evil:
And the next-to-last thing we want to do is encourage people to write bad stories. :P
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sparks
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Post by sparks »

Generic wrote:What about fight length? I've been known to pump out sketches at will in a matter of hours, but more thought-out pieces of fiction often require a lot of effort, and the last thing we want to do is encourage people to jerk off and turn in the stains. :evil:
That would be filed under "Questions" then "Frequently Asked", I daresay. There's a lot of allowances made for length.

The biggest concern with length is readability. Someone experienced at all in writing fiction pumps easily a thousand words in a sitting of two or three hours. Compare that to songfighting, which (for me) usually takes a good eight or nine hours of work, sometimes more. I find that the best fiction comes when you think about something throughout the course of a few days, and finally understand the greater themes your working with when you sit down to write. Pre-writing is for pussies, but thinking about your work is probably the most time-consuming aspect of fiction.

Everybody writes differently. Most people, as I said, familiar with writing actually put out their work rather quickly once the idea is perfected in their brain. The general rule of thumb then is to edit that product, trimming off about 5-10% of it ruthlessly, because most people err in the direction of superfluous material. I don't think 500-2000 is unreasonable. 500 is long for "flash fiction', 2000 is short for "short fiction", and the result is something in between. I'm sure not everyone will agree with that word count (sparkette is dead set against it), but I'll remind you that stories tend to write themselves much more quickly than term papers (and they read a bit easier, too, if they're worthwhile). If you (not you personally, but "you") struggle for more than six or seven hours with the actual process of writing a 1000 word story, I venture to guess you aren't that comfortable with fiction, and need a good deal of practice.


I assure you there will be jerk stains submitted, just as a lot of proverbial jerk stains are submitted to Song Fight. It's the nature of the open fight format. Hopefully, there will be a good amount of redeeming material, as well. I'm going to try to tout this project to some people outside the SF community, namely with certain other groups I'm in to whom I think it might appeal. Hopefully the result will be positive, but it might take some time for the reviews (which I hope will be necessarily harsh) to weed out or whip into shape the real crap.

My real goal is to have at least one near-publication-quality entry in every fight. Maybe that's generous, but I think it's pretty realistic, as long as we have a healthy population of participants. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturgeon%2 ... Sturgeon's Law</a> never fails--people think it's a cynical quote, but there's always that 10%...
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Post by Gazelles »

500-2000 words sounds perfect. Nothing ridiculously short, nothing ridiculously long. I am fucking pumped for this and can probably get one or two other people on board for submitting entries once this is up and running.
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Post by sparks »

To give an update, http://www.writefight.org is now active and registered. Everything is ready to go but the voting PHP, which I need to ponder and tinker with a bit more.*

Thanks for now to everyone who lent a hand with my inter-web n00bocity, among them Spud, fluffy, JB. To everyone else, hopefully you can forgive the clumsy, tacky, and derivative interface.


* What's the problem, you ask? Well, the free PHP script I've edited uses a cookie timer, which kills the cookie after a specified period, as best I can figure, allowing re-votes after X number of seconds. I did the math and set that number of seconds to one week, and that seemed fine until I actually used my brain. After all, someone voting on Friday of week 1 can't vote monday of week 2 with this system. If anyone has a good solution to this, feel free to speak up--I am aware of the basic principles behind the solution I'm looking for, but I have no idea how that will be reflected in the code. Can I simply alter the code weekly so that the cookie has a different name? Comments more than welcome, thanks in advance.
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Post by jb »

sparks wrote:Can I simply alter the code weekly so that the cookie has a different name?
Of course you can. Set the time-to-live to forever. Every time you change the fight, have your script

a)kill the previous fight's cookie
b)set a new cookie, with the contents being "blue" or "green" or "1" or "467" or whatever-- it doesn't really matter, because it's only a means for your script to recognize that someone has already voted. No processing is required. Either they have the cookie for that fight or they don't.
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Post by fodroy »

here's a question for the faq:

what format do i send it in in? word? or just copy-paste the story into the email?
sparks
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Post by sparks »

Good point. I'll think about it and answer in the FAQ as soon as I figure this cookie business out.

Edit:
Answer is posted. Send as doc, text, rtf, whatever attatchment or in the body of the email itself. Format single-spaced, tabbing on paragraphs. It's all going in with a pre tag around it for my sanity unless some better option presents itself.
Last edited by sparks on Thu Mar 31, 2005 1:05 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Post by sparks »

Okay, boys and girls, it's all set up. I'll announce the first fight in a couple of days, but I'll be sure to post here about it. I can't think of anything I have left to do, but I'm sure there's something.

The forums might not be available for a few days to a week, but I'll start the fights before that. I might use this thread or another one in Monkey Business for reviews until then, if that's okay with the good Fightmasters.
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Post by jb »

sparks wrote:I might use this thread or another one in Monkey Business for reviews until then, if that's okay with the good Fightmasters.
Knock yourself out.
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Post by JonPorobil »

I'm quite against limiting the length of the stories (or other pieces? Do we want to throw the doors open for poetry and/or experimental fiction?). At least, I can understand why you'd want an upper limit, but why should you bother rejecting something you see as too short? Plus, 2000 words, as you said, is kind of short for a story.

I'm critiquing from love, Sparks. You're a wonderful human being for giving this idea a home. :idea:
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Post by JonPorobil »

There will be no special warning to indicate that an entry is profane in any way unless I get some special request from the author.
:!: You might perhaps encourage this sort self-policing to make the site more public-friendly. I know a lot of people who would be scared off if they went to this site and the first piece they pulled up was something unexpectedly explicit/gruesome/gross.
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Post by sparks »

An upper limit has its obvious practical purpose--to keep stories from drawing on to no end and to keep them a readable length--keep in mind we don't know how many entries are going to be involved. I am going to maintain a bottom end limit because I don't want to turn this into a "flash fiction" versus "short fiction" contest. They're very different styles and while they both have their respective merits, I don't think they should be judged together, especially in an environment where "short" sometimes equals "better" (such as the SF format).

That said, I'm probably going to have weeks or side-fights that involve both shorter and longer works.

2000 might be short, though. That's my one concern. I'll consider raising that after the first fight, so I can get a good feel for things. It comes to about what, seven or eight printed pages in a magazine the size of Asimov's or Analog?


As for content, I think people will police themselves for the most part. If it gets out of hand in some way, we can always crack down, but I am not too keen on the idea of restricting the material. As a rule, the real crap weeds itself out. There's too much of a gray area between "wonderful" and "morbid" for me to pretend I can be the judge in all cases. I'll reserve that for the obvious extremes.
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Post by JonPorobil »

Yeah, I was just thinking a policy like "If your story is particularly gruesome, please let the fightmaster know, so it can be marked on the main page as such." Not an out-and-out ban of quote-unquote smut.

Man, my excitement can nary be measured.
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Post by the Jazz »

Perhaps once there are multiple fights running we could have one category for poetry and two for prose, one 0-500 and the other 500-up words?
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Post by sparks »

Yeah, that's something along the lines of what I'm considering. I'm probably going to see what kind of level the average prose entry is on before deciding whether to open up poetry, though, if you understand my reservations.

I'm glad to see you're so confident I'll find the need to open up extra fights, though. When we do, they'll definitely involve other formats (flash fiction, poetry).
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Post by Jim of Seattle »

And just to be straight here, as long as it's in the length range, fiction and essays and blog entries and long poems and song lyrics and news articles and Alaskan resort brochure copy and random stringing together of unrelated phrases are all eligible and pitted against one another, right? At least for now?
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Post by sparks »

Well, I think the implication is "short fiction". But I don't think I'll stop you if you want to send in your own Alaskan resort brochures...

I think the FAQ -mostly- covers this stuff with the words "fiction" being everywhere and the fact that it has to be your own stuff (so no resort brochures unless they're original, heh). I mean if it's total jibberish (I mean real, actual jibberish) I might be more selective than SF in that I might "forget" to copy it over, but I doubt it will ever come to that.

So, yeah, pretty much just short fiction. If you want to meter your fiction, that's acceptable, I suppose--there've been authors who do that, one way or another. I'm not really focusing on the whole poetry thing in this fight format.


I imagine most people get the idea, though. Fight may be posted tonight, by the way--I'll start a new, clean thread in Monkey Business if that's the case, since it is after all called "Write Fight!", not "Word Fight?".
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Post by Jim of Seattle »

OK, well, my wife is going to start right off by breaking the rules, probably will submit more of an essay than fiction, but I could be wrong, I haven't spoken with her about what she wants to write.
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Post by sparks »

I don't mind that so much at all. Maybe I'll spell all this out more clearly in the FAQ eventually.

I should at least make clear that not everything submitted -has- to be fiction, but that the narrative format is probably the best suited to this sort of competition. If you want to go outside those recommendations to nonfiction or non-narrative, that's fine. Poetry in a non-poetry fight is probably not so good, on the other hand, unless it's organized as prose and just happens to have some meter to it (like some prose fiction does).

I'm not going to be a hardass, at any rate, as long as whatever we're talking about is done with some grace. If your essay is entertaining, I'll be that much more likely to make exceptions for essays--if it's on the formation of sedimentary minerals at the ocean's floor, well. Unless you did that and it had a nice meter, then I'd probably have to give you a medal.

I can quickly see all my rules degenerating. :) We'll see, like I said. If you have questions, ask me here, or by email, or by AIM, and I can get back to you. I'm expecting mostly "short fiction", but "short nonfiction" is not going to blow my mind too terribly.

I'll be putting up a title tonight, if Sparkette doesn't talk me out of another one.
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