I'm just sayin' what if...

[Jim of Seattle]

What if Jim of Seattle decided he wanted to learn to play guitar? I mean, just sayin'... It would be nice to have some of that sound in some of my songs. I'm not talking Van Halen solos or anything, just some nice rhythm guitar noodling, etc.

The walls of the local music store are lined with 1.2 billion different instruments. Which one do I want? I can't play any guitar at all, though of course I understand completely the music theory behind it. I would want something I could directly feed into an input rather than having to mic it. I would want it relatively easy to play with my tender, callous-free pianist fingers. I'm not going to want anything extremely specific to any genre, but some flexibility in sound would be good. I would almost certainly never be playing it live. How much am I going to be spending? What else would I need besides the guitar itself?

And how would I go about learning this thing? I don't really want actual lessons, and frankly I don't think they'd be worth the expense for someone like me.

[jack]

how much do you want to spend on an instrument?

how much time do you want to spend learning it?



the fact that you know theory gives you a huge advantage. same could be said for having an understanding of meter and tempo. and arrangement. if you don't want callouses, get a nylon string classical acoustic guitar. learn finger placements, chords, tuning (standard and open tunings), scales, etc. you can do alot with open tuning an acoustic guitar in terms of filling out sound (listen to almost anything by joni mitchell for example). the necks are wider on classicals so they are easier to learn on (imho).

maybe even start out with a ukelele. they are cheap, open tuned, and add guitar like instrumentation.

[Mostess]

What if Jim of Seattle decided he wanted to learn to play guitar?

I'd start by looking at classical guitars. The nylon strings are easy on the fingers, the strings are farther apart which makes fingering a little less clumsy, the sound is fuller and easier to make pretty (in my experience) especially with sparse, single-note noodling solos (add a little reverb and you'll sound like a sensitive troubadour even if you can't stop making that "what the hell am I doing" face while you try to guess what your next note should be).

Electrics are easy on tender fingers, too, but I find they're much harder to make sound non-amateurish. At least that's true of cheaper electrics. If you want to unload a couple thousand on a Les Paul, you can sound pretty cool-cat right off the bat.

Learning guitar seems to me like climbing a tree. The first branch is the hardest, and each subsequent one is a little easier to get to, but harder to sit on. The initial investment is worth it if you want to strum some chords, or play some simple solos. Best of luck!

And no matter how awkward it might seem, there is absolutely no shame in sitting in a music store and picking up every guitar hanging on the wall to strum the open strings and play randomly generated notes and chords to compare the sounds and feel. I'm sure you know that, being the well-honed musical guy you are, but it's worth mentioning.

[Jim of Seattle]

I already have a ukelele and find it fairly easy, though I never play it long enough to develop callouses.

What's open tuning?

So both of you mentioned classical guitars being easier to play, but aren't they acoustic? I don't want to have to mic it. Also, won't that make everything sound like classical guitar?

[Hoblit]

yeah, classical guitars with nylon strings are acoustic.

My suggestion:

Pick out a fairly inexpensive Fender Stratocaster. Plenty of room for different sounds utilizing toggle switch and the strings are far enough apart to cut out some of the 'clumsy sound'. It's a well rounded guitar and artists from varied genres use this guitar.

Line 6 POD is a direct recording amp modeler. This will give you even more options in tone and sound. It's complete with effects. No micing 8 different amp and cab combos to get 8 different sounds. This unit can give you a fat old school heavy metal tone or it can give you a tinny tweed blues overdrive right down to a classic clean ring from a bottom heavy british style amplifier.

Either pick up a chord book at the music store or just search for guitar chords or lessons online. I learned my first chords out of a mel bay book and never had a lesson beyond that.

Open tuning is when you tune all 6 strings to an open chord. This is good for slide guitar work or just bar chording.

[Jim of Seattle]

Thanks, Hoblit. I appreciate the specific recommendation, because I'm not going to be pulling down a million guitars and trying them out. Sounds like you get exactly what I'm looking for. Looks like with these two devices about 700 hundred dollars has to get off the train, even over eBay. So, JoS songs are going to continue to be Midi and keys for a little while, I guess...

I see that Fender offers lefty guitars. That's appealing, since I'm a lefty. Am I going down a bad path to learn guitar backwards, or is it no big deal?

[Rabid Garfunkel]

...and not that it's been mentioned yet, but for electrics changing the strings to extra-light gauge will lessen both the fingertip pain and the left-handed crampy agony that comes with teaching that hand the new muscle memory.

Use the Ramones method of choosing an axe, one that appeals to you visually and physically (a.k.a. inspires such lust that it's hard to walk away from). Then ask the boards for user experiences with it before getting it, heh.

My 2 cents.

[jack]

you can also get a direct-in option with an acoustic by getting one of those sound hole micro piezo pickups. they run under a hundred bucks and have a 1/4 inch jack on the end.

once you have the signal in, you can effect the track with VST plug ins, or something similar to amplitube to get different sounding tone, reverb, etc.

and i wouldn't make the DI option the dealbreaker. recording acoustic with a condenser would really add alot to your sound, and almost all acoustic recorded DI sounds like ass versus live mic.

[Rabid Garfunkel]

One more thing... this book, The Guitar Handbook by Ralph Denyer (huh? weird) is a handy reference for all aspects of guitars, from guitar specific theory to chords and playing to maintenance, as well as basic history of the guitar and its many iterations/models.

[Jim of Seattle]

almost all acoustic recorded DI sounds like ass versus live mic.

Hmm, that consternates me. I don't think ass is what I'll be going for as far as a sound. What do you mean, exactly? Stick some reverb on it, double track it, do my lil tricks with it, and it would sound ok, right?

[Adam!]

Jim, before you bail because of the ching ching it will take to nab a Pod, you might want to check out Steinberg's Warp. It's simulates three amps and three cabs (I personally find one of the amps and one of the cabs unusable, so for me it's more like 4 good combinations) and it can be had for under 50 bucks. I have a cheap guitar (Ibanez Gio) and in every one of my songs I am playing it direct in and using Warp to do amp simulation. Eventually I will upgrade to NI's Guitar Rack for more options, but right now it still satisfies my needs. You can check out my I'm Not Impressed to hear both the "heavy" and "jazz" amps. Also my Sit Down and Shut Up does a good job of showing off how the clean setting sounds.

[Rabid Garfunkel]

almost all acoustic recorded DI sounds like ass versus live mic.

Hmm, that consternates me. I don't think ass is what I'll be going for as far as a sound. What do you mean, exactly? Stick some reverb on it, double track it, do my lil tricks with it, and it would sound ok, right?

Usually no. Acoustic recorded direct tends to have a very trebly/jangly tone at its core which sounds rather unlike what you the player and anyone else in the room with you are hearing. It's not a bad sound (in my personal opinion) but it's not terribly popular around these parts.

See also: the difference between a default MIDI piano voice and a sample driven one that's only triggered by the MIDI notes. That's the sort of difference in sound that exists between mic'd and direct acoustic guitar at its very worst.

[Adam!]

almost all acoustic recorded DI sounds like ass versus live mic.

Hmm, that consternates me. I don't think ass is what I'll be going for as far as a sound. What do you mean, exactly? Stick some reverb on it, double track it, do my lil tricks with it, and it would sound ok, right?

Nope. It would sound like echoey, double-tracked ass.

[Jim of Seattle]

Oh, you're just talking about acoustic recorded direct in, not anything else. I see. Well, that wouldn't be an option now anyway. Basically, what's happening is that I'm hearing songs I like and thinking "Compositionally, I can do this easy, and I can even get myself to sing almost that good, and I understand the arrangement, but damn, there's a guitar in there I can't mimic", as opposed to wanting to start coming out with boy-and-guitar songs anytime soon.

[Caravan Ray]

So both of you mentioned classical guitars being easier to play, but aren't they acoustic? I don't want to have to mic it. Also, won't that make everything sound like classical guitar?

You can do a lot with an acoustic guitar and onboard computer effects - that's all I ever use.

Buy a $10 nylon string classical at a garage sale - muck about with it - and you'll work out whether you want to invest more

[Albatross]

Jim, you're a Sonar user, right? If so, you probably already have a guitar amp modeling plug-in called Revalver. Granted, that version is stripped down and essentially useless, but the full version is only around $60. It can't touch Guitar Rig or Amplitube, but of course, those are much more pricey, although Amplitube can be had for just a bit more than the cost of the POD XT.

You may also have Cakewalk's Amp Sim plug-in, but that's a piece of crap and shouldn't even be considered.

Remember, one benefit to doing your amp modeling in software is simply having a dry recording to model and shape however you want after it's committed to disk. If you suddenly want to change your balls-out distorted track to something cleaner and/or smoother, no problem, just tweak some virtual knobs. If you already recorded a track that was distorted by the POD, or whatever, your only option is to record the track again.

[Jim of Seattle]

OK, so what if I get a cheap starter just to see if I like it and then plug it into the mixer and use whatever comes with Sonar to mess with it. That might be a good way to get going.

[jack]

OK, so what if I get a cheap starter just to see if I like it and then plug it into the mixer and use whatever comes with Sonar to mess with it. That might be a good way to get going.

this idea is fine. i think the point i was trying to make by recommending an acoustic is that you can make an acoustic sound electric (through digital effects) but it's pretty hard to make an electric sound acoustic. it just gives you more versatility (if you're only going to buy one guitar to begin with).

[Jim of Seattle]

Yeah, that's a good point too. I think what I want is one single instrument that I can make sound like any other instrument. But I guess that's not the way it goes...

[jack]

Yeah, that's a good point too. I think what I want is one single instrument that I can make sound like any other instrument. But I guess that's not the way it goes...

you already have this. it's called a MIDI controller.

[Jim of Seattle]

You have never been on the receiving end of Midi bashing reviews, I take it. They ain't no fun at all. I tell ya, my personal arrangement choices are driven almost entirely by what I think I can get away with Midi-wise without sounding like the Ms. Pac-Man theme.

[Dan-O from Five-O]

Jim, I've seen these and been fairly curious.
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=g ... id/511672/

From my understanding they can give both accoustic and various electric sounds, as well as even a 12 string. I've never played around with one, maybe I'll do that tomorrow on lunch and get back to you on it.