Get A Pre-Life

[HeuristicsInc]

The dude doth protest too much, methinks. I detect some defensiveness.

Hey, I did a rap song in an hour, including recording all the instruments, and YES a beat And I'm not even a rapper! Heh.

Umm, I think it's about time to stop talking about this.
-bill

[MC Eric B]

If you can play instruments like you do, creating a beat in an hour is possible, and I applaud you for it. What I am saying is for somebody who plays no instruments, there is no easy way to do it, unless you are an expert at using song production type software to make beats. I have tried all the major beat making software products, but you generally still need to use premade loops for that unless you play your own instrument.

- Eric

[obscurity]

I think creating the background music for a goth song takes much more talent than what I do

I'm sorry, I think you misunderstood me. I wasn't asking why you think making background music for a goth song is easier than what you do, I was a asking why it's easier than making backing music for a hiphop song.

You keep telling us that the reason you don't do it, and the reason you can't be expected to do it, is that it's so difficult. So I'm asking: why? What is so difficult about it? Why is it so much harder than what most folks here do week in week out?

ps: I haven't played a single instrument on any songfight song I've ever submitted. Stop making assumptions.

[starfinger]

I have tried all the major beat making software products, but you generally still need to use premade loops for that unless you play your own instrument.

are you considering your mouse/trackball to be an instrument?
because fruity loops and reason will let you do quite a bit with just some clicking. try out the fruity loops demo.

-craig

[adrift in a draft]

Take a bunch of Van Gogh portraits- cut them up and paste them together into a collage resembling a face. Then draw a silly mustache on it and add a cartoon thought bubble. - TADA! you're now better then Van Gogh.

buy an instrument and work on playing it - it is more rewarding then self affected chanting over someone elses music.

oust the rappers!

[Billy's Little Trip]

I have no problem with anything that anyone enters, because it's all creative art anyway you slice it. BUT, here is my comment on the pre made loops and beats that you import from a site. Professional and highly paid (presumably) people are composing, mixing and mastering these loops. In fact, I don't know how you can call it a loop when it has an intro, runs for 4 minutes and has an outro. That's an instrumental or a song without words in my book.

A lot of people here, myself included, are learning how to engineer sound to get to the quality of these "loops" that are made by professionals.
Now with that said, all of my entries here have been with a drum machine. Although I program the machine beat by beat, the beats are made by professionals in a studio with a professional drummer. Am I not falling into the artificially enhanced group also? I am making 4 and 8 count loops that I can drop, drag and alter to create my percussions.

Spud said that # uses a Yamaha DD-55 for synth and beats. But you are still arranging and mixing them. So essentially it's no different then any other instrument that you layer into the mix. At the end, you arranged all the layers, you didn't just lay words over a "professionally" made instrumental. I think this is what some SF'ers here are bothered by.
I personally don't give a shyt either way, because I'm too concerned with trying to meet the deadline with my own stuff, to care.

[Leaf]

Impulse...didn't I see you on American Idol last night?

Look, one guy reviews another's song, and says "try this".
Guy who is given the suggestion rejects it... no problem. Then guy who rejects it attempts to convince everyone else that he is purposefully not following this suggestion...(and here's the good part) in the name of "creating better songs".

The suggestion was fine, the rejection was fine. This whole "I know everything about how hard or easy it is" routine is fucking lame. Just reject the suggestion and do what you do, but shut up already. You don't know what you are talking about. You certainly are NOT an expert on hip hop, or people for that matter.

On second thought, keep posting your ridiculous double talk. It's amusing and I just had to fire someone for stealing out of people's desks. I could use a chuckle.


<AWAITING>

[Spud]

I think he is just saying that making music is hard, and requires skills that he hasn't honed just yet.

[MC Eric B]

obscurity - I listened to some of your songs now, like:
http://www.songfight.org/songpage.php?k ... _need_love
http://www.songfight.org/music/elements ... y_teos.mp3

How do you create the paino intro sound and the keyboard sounds on We All Need Love, or the guitar sound (or is it a keyboard sound?) on Elements of Style?

If you are not playing any instruments (I consider playing the electronic keyboard an instrument), then you are pretty talented to have created that music. But, that being said, many people make beats from scratch. I am not saying it can't be done. But, for somebody who plays no instruments (even virtual ones) like me, it is hard. I have tried Fruity Loops, but unless you have sophisticated technical skills, it is hard to make a song on it from scratch unless you piece together the premade loops they give you.

Anyhow, I agree with Billy's Little Trip's point about how if I use a "professional" sounding premade beat, it is not the same as building my own beat using layers of loops, so what I do is unfair in that way. But, I still don't see how all of this is any different than if I were the lead singer in a band and I wrote all the songs and I just had my band create the music for me to match my songs. That would actually be a lot less work than what I have to deal with to make the song I write try to match whatever premade beat I can best find to match it.

So, it seems the issue is that people assume I create the beats because I am not in a band. And, that is a valid assumption, but Songfight does not have a section to put a description or credits for each song, so my only option would be to call it something like
Convalescence - by MC Eric B Backed By A Premade Beat
or
Convalescence - by MC Eric B and his Virtual Band

Also, for Get A Life, I re-arranged the beat (Using Pro Tools) somewhat to fit my song, so it is not even a totally premade beat anymore.

Leaf - I see your point, but somebody has to make this forum entertaining, just like the bad people make American Idol entertaining, right? Anyhow, the sum it up, my point is that people keep telling me to make my own beats, but if I was in a band where I wrote and sang all the songs, would people still say that? I don't see the difference, other than by having no band people automatically think I create my own beats, but hopefully after my dozens of postings about how I don't create my own beats, that is no longer the assumption.

If Songfight is a competition for musicians, than I suppose I would not qualify. But, if it is about creating new songs based on whatever title is given, then that is what I do. If anything, my songs are much different than what most people do, so I don't think anybody can say my songs are not original sounding.

- Eric

[Eidolon]

But, I still don't see how all of this is any different than if I were the lead singer in a band and I wrote all the songs and I just had my band create the music for me to match my songs. That would actually be a lot less work than what I have to deal with to make the song I write try to match whatever premade beat I can best find to match it.

The only thing I can think that makes this a little different is that in the SongFight! context, you and your band would mostly likely be entering the fight as a band so that it isn't just you who is the featured songwriter. Perhaps?

I thought your idea of 'Blah Blah backed by a Premade Beat' to be excellent and funny...

Yeah, figuring out the 'credits' on songs here is a very organic and forum based process. If i'm curious I'll just ask usually.

[Leaf]

I think he is just saying that making music is hard, and requires skills that he hasn't honed just yet.

That's what SHOULD be said Spud. All this other stuff that is creating a false dichotomy based on poor assumptions has coloured it to the point of obscurity.

Now if I can decide between writing a song with only two parts or going for the complete chaotic multiple personality disorder...


The irony will be if I don't submit a song (I'm past the lyrics point at least)...it'll be BECAUSE I have a life!

[Billy's Little Trip]

Eric, even though I don't get into hip hop and rap, you do some pretty good writing and rhyming. Really that's what you are offering Song Fight is just that. But it would be pretty boring if it didn't have a beat. I think you know the direction you're heading and I think you have to just keep doing what you like. You'll know when the time is right to start layering together your own instrumentals. You don't have to be Edgar Winter to layer together some cool hip hop arrangements. Check out this thread I'm pretty sure Masterhyde is doing everything on a keyboard and Spud just said they use a Yamaha DD-55. So there ya go.

[MC Eric B]

Billy's Little Trip - That thread is interesting, but I assume Masterhyde and Spud know how to play the keyboard at least a little bit. Maybe not. I would be interested to know. I have no musical training, so trying to play keyboard notes to match my vocals is not something I can do. I guess I could try using a keyboard to create some basic beats though. I like messing around with playing notes, I just can't read music.

Yes, each week as I keep writing songs I will keep working on trying to learn to make my own beats. Eventually that would make things much easier for me. I had never even written a song until 6 months ago, so just getting that part down and then recently adding some effects in Pro Tools has been a lot for me.

Also, if I started making my own beats to match my songs and make them sound better, I would easily win all the Songfight competitions, so all you MC Eric B haters should be happy I am not doing it that way right now .

- Eric

[Billy's Little Trip]

Also, if I started making my own beats to match my songs and make them sound better, I would easily win all the Songfight competitions, so all you MC Eric B haters should be happy I am not doing it that way right now Very Happy

Except for the fact it will still be hip hop.

By the way, it doesn't take skill or training to make music. It takes creativity and heart.
......now "good" music, that's another story. I'll let you know when I figure it out, lol.

[Caravan Ray]

I have no musical training, so trying to play keyboard notes to match my vocals is not something I can do. I guess I could try using a keyboard to create some basic beats though.

I have no musical training, but trying to play keyboard notes to match my vocals is exactly something I can do. It's just a freaking row of buttons. You press the ones that sound good.

[Your Money Wasted]

This is the first time I've had to program drums for something like this. On my other three SF entries I used real drums, but now that I can't record real drums because of a broken FirePod, I had to download a bunch of samples from freesound and arrange it all in Cubase. So yeah, it's a little scary that I'd come to the prefight thread and the discussion is... drum programming...

The song is complete except for vocals which I'm doing today. w00t

[jimtyrrell]

Hey Impulse, I just listened to your 'Convalescence' entry. Pretty clever. You seem plenty sharp enough to knock out some keyboard lines. You've got a pretty good sense of melody and rhythm.

I'm not saying you should do this because it will make your stuff better, because that may not be true. But I'm saying that if playing an instrument was something you were interested in learning, it looks (sounds) to me like you've got the basic tools to do well with it.

As for me: I drove home on my lunch hour and recorded the beats for my submission. I'll putter around with it a little tonight, and then get to work on some lyrics. Fun!

[MC Eric B]

jimtyrrell - Thanks. The main reason making my own beats would help is that it is very hard to use a beat somebody else already made for a song I already wrote in my head. So, if I could learn to make a beat to match what I wrote, it would help me. So, I will work on that.

- Eric

[starfinger]

i'm probably in this. i just made something really silly.

-criag

[blue]

i'm probably in this. i just made something really silly.

-criag

did you make your own beats?!!

[starfinger]

did you make your own beats?!!

from scratch!

[blue]

did you make your own beats?!!

from scratch!

you dirty... musician..