The Song Fight Bulletin Board

LOL That's awesome! I want a full-sized framed version of it for home. Also, ever noticed how many reviews actually do start out "nice and atmospheric sounding"?

Kill Me Sarah wrote: Now here is a somesongs review from Tuur

Funeral dirge is a very good description. Maybe you were aiming for that; if so, you did a really good job! Doesn't exactly deserve the ultra low rating, but it's remarkable that even you cannot keep with the tempo and sing faster than the drums sometimes.

I get it, I'm a poor musician, but you can tell me that my timing is off without turning it into an insult. And this was the fifth review of my song.

I am really sorry if it sounded like an insult; that was never my intent.
I find it hard to express myself in english (I am dutch) and I am afraid that sometimes that language barrier gets in the way. I even wrote that I thought it deserved a higher rating...

tuuur wrote: I am really sorry if it sounded like an insult; that was never my intent.
I find it hard to express myself in english (I am dutch) and I am afraid that sometimes that language barrier gets in the way. I even wrote that I thought it deserved a higher rating...

No hard feelings, just trying to explain why I personally don't pay much attention to somesongs anymore.

Kill Me Sarah wrote:The purpose of this thread was "help save somesongs". somesongs is on the decline because it does not have regular participation.

you're totally right.

i felt bad about this, so this afternoon i threw a little something together for your voting pleasure. i'll be back here shortly to complain about the un-helpful negative reviews.

Eric Y. wrote:

Kill Me Sarah wrote:The purpose of this thread was "help save somesongs". somesongs is on the decline because it does not have regular participation.

you're totally right.

i felt bad about this, so this afternoon i threw a little something together for your voting pleasure. i'll be back here shortly to complain about the un-helpful negative reviews.

LOL, Eric, I didn't realize you were tviyh. You put bass on one of my crappy songs once. And the song you called "droney" was way better than that song

Kill Me Sarah wrote: Now here is a somesongs review from Tuur

Funeral dirge is a very good description. Maybe you were aiming for that; if so, you did a really good job! Doesn't exactly deserve the ultra low rating, but it's remarkable that even you cannot keep with the tempo and sing faster than the drums sometimes.

I get it, I'm a poor musician, but you can tell me that my timing is off without turning it into an insult. And this was the fifth review of my song.

How is that an insult? And besides which, being a poor musician is pretty much exactly what you want to try to avoid when you post a song to Somesongs. Based on your comments, it seems to me that you want to get higher ratings just for being you. And that's not how it works. If you want higher ratings and more compliments in reviews of your songs, then you should practice your songs, make sure the performances are error-free, and work on improving. And reviews, even ones with predominantly negative comments are great for that. You made a clever observation:

Kill Me Sarah wrote: Tell someone what you like about a song and they have something to build on. Tell someone what you hate about a song and all they can do is subtract, until there is no song left.

Only that's not how it works. If everyone included only positive comments in their songs, then you'd just continue to do the same thing you've been doing, leaving the same mistakes that everyone was afraid to acknowledge. Negative comments point out the areas that need improvement. In my dictionary, this is the definition of a review. It shouldn't be "all they can do is subtract," but rather, "all they can do is change."

Now, I know, I know, I get it. We're trying to save Somesongs, and the attitude on the site is what's turning many new users away (by the way, new users are not necessarily new musicians. There were musical instruments and people playing them long before there was the Internet), but I think the best way to save Somesongs is to keep it what it's always been, not to change it for the sake of traffic. If we get hundreds of new users, but all the reviews are soft, Somesongs hasn't really been saved.

Generic wrote:

Kill Me Sarah wrote: Now here is a somesongs review from Tuur

Funeral dirge is a very good description. Maybe you were aiming for that; if so, you did a really good job! Doesn't exactly deserve the ultra low rating, but it's remarkable that even you cannot keep with the tempo and sing faster than the drums sometimes.

I get it, I'm a poor musician, but you can tell me that my timing is off without turning it into an insult. And this was the fifth review of my song.

How is that an insult?

If I had to make a guess, I'd say that it's the 'even you' business. The phrase in context appears to imply "even a person from whom I expect a subpar performance". As Tuuur explained, it's really probably no more than difficulty with the language.

Yeah, JT, that was how I initially took it too, but I certainly understand the constraints of a language barrier, so no hard feelings there.

Jon Eric, I wrote a windy response, but scrapped it. Basically, I'm emphasizing the desire to see more positive reviews, but obviously the best approach is a balance. I think the biggest service you could do a musician would be to tell them what you like, and also what could be improved upon. My beef with somesongs isn't the fact that not everyone (or sometimes anyone) likes my songs. It is more the fact that there's almost a adversarial spirit over there sometimes where people act like you spit in their face because you posted a song they didn't like. You expect a bit of that here, give the "fight" aspect of the site, but it catches you off guard on a site that's just supposed to be some songs.

Okay, that was still kinda windy...

Kill Me Sarah wrote:It is more the fact that there's almost a adversarial spirit over there sometimes where people act like you spit in their face because you posted a song they didn't like. You expect a bit of that here, give the "fight" aspect of the site, but it catches you off guard on a site that's just supposed to be some songs.

I don't believe I've ever heard one of your songs, and if I have I don't remember any. I say that so you know not to take the following in any way personally.

If someone posts something that even they themselves must know is crap, it brings out the adversarial side of me. This is because I see such behaviour as killing the site. Who wants to spend an hour or two listening/reviewing songs when the majority of them are going to be crap? I certainly don't, and I don't expect anyone else (except, perhaps, those with broken limbs and nothing better to do:) ) to. And when new people come to the site and hear crap, they don't feel embarrassed about posting their own crap. So it snowballs. Eventually, the only way to avoid the crap is to only listen to songs by people you already know. Of course, then you're going to be accused of being in a clique.

So, if you happen to know that, say, your timing was a bit iffy on a particular song, and you know you can do better, then do us all a favour and do it better, then upload THAT version. And if you just can't do any better, then maybe you want to look for alternate means of artistic expression that play to your personal strengths, whatever they may be.

I definitely get where you're coming from. I really don't think most people post things that they really feel are terrible. But at the same time, just because you might know something about your song/mix isn't right, doesn't mean you know how to fix it. For example, I know that a lot of my recordings would be improved if I could get a handle on EQ'ing them correctly. Should I not post a song unless I've learned to produce it to perfection? And by extension, is somesongs intended only for people who are themselves of the opinion that they have perfected their craft? It just seems like by your definition the purpose of somesongs is to only upload something you think is perfect and then let people rip it to shreds

Kill Me Sarah wrote:I definitely get where you're coming from. I really don't think most people post things that they really feel are terrible. But at the same time, just because you might know something about your song/mix isn't right, doesn't mean you know how to fix it. For example, I know that a lot of my recordings would be improved if I could get a handle on EQ'ing them correctly.

Then I would have thought you'd be eager for people to tell you how your usage of EQ could be improved.

Kill Me Sarah wrote:Should I not post a song unless I've learned to produce it to perfection? And by extension, is somesongs intended only for people who are themselves of the opinion that they have perfected their craft? It just seems like by your definition the purpose of somesongs is to only upload something you think is perfect and then let people rip it to shreds :lol:

No. There's a big difference between 'knowing something is crap' and 'knowing something is less than perfect'. I'm just saying, if you post a song that is so crap that you MUST have known it was crap, then I'm going to be annoyed at you. And if I hear it, I'm going to tell you how I feel about it, and I'm not going to mince my words. And if that makes the site become adversarial, well then I think that's better than the alternative. Pussy.

(OK, that last sentence/word was for comic effect. I'm serious about the rest of it)

I do want to know how to improve my EQ, the operative word being "how". I've even offered up a song that I actually like as a sacrifice to somesongs just to show my good will.

I hate to butt in, but ...

obscurity wrote:There's a big difference between 'knowing something is crap' and 'knowing something is less than perfect'. I'm just saying, if you post a song that is so crap that you MUST have known it was crap, then I'm going to be annoyed at you. And if I hear it, I'm going to tell you how I feel about it, and I'm not going to mince my words. And if that makes the site become adversarial, well then I think that's better than the alternative.

I think it's harsh to assume that just because a song is crap, the artist must have known it's crap. I have a lot of crappy songs under my belt, but when I created them, I thought they were awesome. I guess I'm lucky I didn't join somesongs a few years ago - it sounds like I would have gotten torn apart, and upstart musicians can't take that.

Reïst wrote:I hate to butt in, but ... :)

obscurity wrote:There's a big difference between 'knowing something is crap' and 'knowing something is less than perfect'. I'm just saying, if you post a song that is so crap that you MUST have known it was crap, then I'm going to be annoyed at you. And if I hear it, I'm going to tell you how I feel about it, and I'm not going to mince my words. And if that makes the site become adversarial, well then I think that's better than the alternative.

I think it's harsh to assume that just because a song is crap, the artist must have known it's crap.

It's probably a good thing that I'm not assuming that, then :)

Look, plenty of people out there think my songs are crap too. That's fair enough. I'm not talking about songs that I (or you, or someone else) subjectively thinks are crap. I'm talking about songs that are so crap that there's no room for debate. Songs that no-one in their right mind could ever love. Songs that are often posted along with a comment that says something along the lines of 'I know this is crap, but..." (where 'but' is usually followed by something that translates to 'I want you to say nice things about it anyway'). Songs that are so crap that, if you really don't know they're crap then, for the good of humanity, YOU NEED TO BE TOLD. In no uncertain terms. Those songs.

I don't get it. Which songs?


** quack **

roymond wrote:I don't get it. Which songs?

Example:

SONG: Bootmouth - My TV Dinner . mp3
song comments:
I know that the bass is out of tune and the guitar loses time with the really fake sounding drums at points and please pardon the noisy recording but otherwise its a really good song about TV dinners. Please tell me what you think!


/I see your quack
//and raise you and explanation anyways

Reïst wrote:I think it's harsh to assume that just because a song is crap, the artist must have known it's crap. I have a lot of crappy songs under my belt, but when I created them, I thought they were awesome. I guess I'm lucky I didn't join somesongs a few years ago - it sounds like I would have gotten torn apart, and upstart musicians can't take that.

Bullfrickingcrap. Upstart musicians can take alot of stuff.

obscurity wrote:Songs that are so crap that, if you really don't know they're crap then, for the good of humanity, YOU NEED TO BE TOLD. In no uncertain terms. Those songs.

Cool. Agreed.

erik wrote:Bullfrickingcrap. Upstart musicians can take alot of stuff.

Maybe they can take it, but they can't deal with it as well.

Reïst wrote:

obscurity wrote:Songs that are so crap that, if you really don't know they're crap then, for the good of humanity, YOU NEED TO BE TOLD. In no uncertain terms. Those songs.

Cool. Agreed.

erik wrote:Bullfrickingcrap. Upstart musicians can take alot of stuff.

Maybe they can take it, but they can't deal with it as well.

upstart |ˈəpˌstärt|
noun derogatory
a person who has risen suddenly to wealth or high position, esp. one who behaves arrogantly : the upstarts who dare to challenge the legitimacy of his rule | [as adj. ] an upstart leader.

Did you mean "start-up?"

Ross wrote:Did you mean "start-up?"

I guess so.

Well, it's been a week now since I posted my last song on somesongs. In that week some new songs were posted.

A grand total of 2 comments were given on those songs...

Which brings me to my tip to save somesongs (because I still not fully believe it's saved yet). When you post a song, please comment and rate the (or at least some) songs on the frontpage.

Without people leaving comments, I personally don't see much use for the site other than it being a collection of links to mp3s.

I've posted this to the somesongs message board, and sent Jeff a message about it, but just in case I'm going to mention it here, too. I think using this JavaScript would make it way easier to listen to and rate lots of songs:

http://del.icio.us/help/playtagger

Simply including their javascript into the song info page would add a play/stop button next to the mp3 link, so you could play the mp3 right in the page using Flash. I think that would be really cool.