The Song Fight Bulletin Board

j$ wrote:Touched by a Paedo Angel

A+ trolling. Fine work.

josh wrote:@Pigfarmer Jr.: Panning like this is actually really common on older recordings which were done on 4 track (as Jon alluded to). Listen to Beatles or Doors records for example. Not saying it sounds the best, or makes sense in a modern context, only that it's not unique. I'm using a 4 track cassette recorder right now, so it's easier to pull off with bounces this way. Maybe I'll rethink that approach, but I'm liking it right now myself.

re: Panning. Agreed. At work some... shit, fifteen years ago almost, only one speaker was working on the radio and it really sucked to miss out on some of the great guitar work by Jimi Hendrix when they'd play it because it was panned to one side. I actually was trying to remember which beatles tune the panning reminded me of. Let me just say that my review probably sounded more harsh than intended. I was just trying to convey that I noticed the panning choice which distracted me from the song, at least at first. Listening to your song again I will agree that it was a legitimate artistic decision and I respect that.

josh wrote:Oh, a question on the panning thing. I wonder if it would help much to simply narrow the panning some. I've been panning 100% right left other than vocals and sometimes bass, but maybe it would be less jarring to have them panned the same way, but less so. I'm also considering trying to record the drums stereo, but that creates some technical challenges. Of course, there's also the option of using a DAW, but from a writing perspective, I've found it easier to use a four track. And a week is kind of a short time to work up a demo on the 4-track and then do a more produced version on a modern setup.

As a HUGE generalization... HUGE I tell you... I'd rather have the vocals part way to one side than the drums much out of dead center. But that's boring and normal and really, why be boring and normal in Nur Ein? Fuck it. Stick to your guns. If you like it with a different panning than I say go for it. If not then.... well, don't.

Lunkhead wrote:

j$ wrote:Touched by a Paedo Angel

A+ trolling. Fine work.

My pleasure. You set 'em up, I'll knock 'em down. You want to play the 'I'm too good for all this' card, fair enough - you're probably right; but I'm committed to listening, commenting and giving my unwelcome votin' opinion for lotza rounds yet, so I figured it's about time we stopped f**king around and escalated ('though to be fair, I intended it as a facile joke on the TV show name not a randomly mean dig at that mysterious musician or his output).

... or to put it another way, that's as close as I'll come to an apology any time soon. You've all got a troll for a judge who doesn't self-identify as a troll. Deal.

j$ wrote:

Lunkhead wrote:

j$ wrote:Touched by a Paedo Angel

A+ trolling. Fine work.

My pleasure. You set 'em up, I'll knock 'em down. You want to play the 'I'm too good for all this' card, fair enough - you're probably right; but I'm committed to listening, commenting and giving my unwelcome votin' opinion for lotza rounds yet, so I figured it's about time we stopped f**king around and escalated ('though to be fair, I intended it as a facile joke on the TV show name not a randomly mean dig at that mysterious musician or his output).

... or to put it another way, that's as close as I'll come to an apology any time soon. You've all got a troll for a judge who doesn't self-identify as a troll. Deal.

I did read it as "a randomly mean dig", which I thought was out of left field and out of line. I can see how it could have just been a joke that I misinterpreted though. My mistake.

Reist wrote: Frankie Big Face
My old nemesis. I like that you consistently mix things up. Thus far, this is the only truly groovy song. 'My Name is Frank' is a hella catchy line too. I'd angry punch-dance to this for sure.

Plus, my name actually is FRANK!

Great to see you 'round these parts.

Thank for the response, Pigfarmer. First off, your comments didn't come off harsh at all (J$ is another story ). And so far all the reviews on the track are unanimous on the panning being distracting, so it's something worth digging into. I mean, it's important to make recordings you like, but in all honestly, mixes like this aren't my ideal either. I'm just liking it because I've been listening to a lot of older music lately and it's fun to work in that vein. Really though, this type of mixing comes from a time when folks mostly listened on stereo systems, not on headphones. The deadline is approaching fast, so not sure what format this next recording will take on, but if I get the time, I'll definitely try and explore some different stereo field options. Mostly though, I'm just hoping to get in something a little better than the mike fart I resorted to in last year's round one! My buddy just gave me some good advice on the theme, so I think that might help.

listening in order of results because that's how they're listed now. :/

Carlo - choice lyrics, dude. not a fan of your vocal tone quality in this tune, but I reckon there's not much to be done about this.

Ken - great chorus. I think the rhythm of the verse lyric lacks flow. you know what I mean? like it's a little awkward. imho.

Me (FBF) - this was fun to make. it's a bit of a gag, i guess. but it was fun. i said that already. i notice now it's a little long.

Paco - on my speakers, this mix sounds incredible. nice guitar solos. i would have ranked this song higher than those that beat it.

Rabid - I wish the vocal performance were a little better. because really, this is a cool song and performance. and the sleigh bells are a brilliant choice.

Manhattan - jeez, these mixes all sound great. i better get my shit together. i like your voice in this range. yes, love that you come into the chorus on the bVII! that was cool.

MJS - reminds me of Jose Gonzales. i would have liked to hear some of the vocal as a single track. i think that would make it more intimate. it's good, though. also reminds me a little of blind pilot, who i adore. gets a little long.

Ross - THIS IS A LOUD MIX. there is absolutely nothing wrong with this song or performance (which is quite good) but i don't really like the song. i realize that's not constructive. it's just taste. i think you did a great job.

Sam - your band name and that lyric is funny. but otherwise, this sounds a little like parody to me. it's a nice arrangement.

Cavedwellers - i enjoyed this through the first chorus and then i looked at how many parts were left and i just knew it was going to be too long. gets a little too jammy for my tastes but not bad. doesn't need the last chorus—you could have gone directly to the outro and it would have been more than enough. imho.

à tous les monsieurs - is that a typewriter? (it's a cajón) that was an actual conversation between erik and me. i ended up liking this song more than i thought i would. it's lovely but i didn't expect it to be catchy and it is. thanks for letting me be in your band.

chocolate chips - i did not like this song for many reasons but they're not really worth getting into. probably ranked higher than it should be. sorry.

nick soma - i appreciate what you're trying to do here but the mix is so cluttered and that electric piano is especially oppressive. you can sing so put that in the front. that piano is killing this song for me. also a bit too long, imo. but just by a little.

lazarus - another track with great potential ruined by a weak vocal. come on, man! you have such a cool thing going here and your vocal track is just....you should have tried harder.

balance - i like this. it's like LCD soundsystem jr.

djrd - so ambitious and weird. i can understand how it ended up ranked down here but i would have awarded mega bonus points for the effort and talent that went into creating this, even as i probably wouldn't want to hear it again because it's just too strange and quirky and anxiety-inducing.

iveg - these fine lyrics deserve a much better song.

zack - flat singing is really hard to forgive, especially in this context, where it is everything.

adam - surprised to see your name way down here. you're usually pretty creative. why is your voice in the bathroom and your ukulele is in the parlour? marring an otherwise interesting song, i think.

dutova - wow, okay. i'm sure this sounded awesome in your head. i actually really mean that. you just didn't successfully execute the idea due to lack of time, equipment, talent - i don't know! but it's so interesting to have just enough information to know what you were going for but couldn't quite get to. fascinating.

boffo - i hate songs about the people who are singing them.

toby - i didn't like this but it doesn't mean it's bad. there are some really good things about it actually, most especially the guitar playing toward the end.

meow - this deserves more respect than it received. there's shape, form, humor, pathos. i hope you come back next week with something brilliant that knocks everyone's socks off. i won't be surprised. (this is not sarcasm)

I think my favorite five are these: Carlo Bruno Jr., Frankie Big Face, Michael J. Samuels, Touched by Touched by an Angel, and a tous les monsieurs. ... don't think I can manage full reviews this time around; still got too much work to do on the next song... maybe half finished.

Toby Roktot wrote: I love to write, to create something from nothing, to perform my stuff. I truly thank Songfight! And all you guys for being here. For encouraging one to "please be awesome ".
As Popeye says ..."I yam what I yam!!" Thx again, at least I beat Mr Meow....for now !!! LoL

Toby -

Great attitude! We're in the same mind frame. Although hard to believe, we've had a little success in the real world with this, and it's still a goof for shits and giggles for us.
I take all the reviews with a grain of salt. If you actually followed them, you end up being totally lost, because the judges aren't looking for anything specific. You roll the dice and they end up ranking people somewheres.

I remember one of our songs ended up being totally trashed in ST, it didn't fit the challenge, it was repetitive, derivative and stunk to high heaven. It got picked up when we did a video for it and it's our best known work out there when the video made it in a film festival.

You have to do the work for yourself first. Then have the courage to let others see it, and not let them actually steer you from what you like to do. You can take constructive criticism, but temper it with the fact if you don't respect the opinion of the person who is judging you, it's pretty much horseshit.

Then why do I do the song at all? Because I want to, and it gives me a deadline. I'm notorious for tinkering and never releasing stuff because it's not 'right'. This is a place I can just say it's 'Good enough' and can let it go out there. I can always go back and tweak it some more later. Until I came to that revelation, I had tons of notebooks and files and reels, but no output for years. Now we're up to about 70 songs in the last 5 years that wouldn't exist without ST, Nur Ein and other similar contests.

Are they good songs? Probably not. If 5% of your tunes are good, it's a decent batting average. But you have to get the crap out of your system to get to them. So, we'll keep plugging at it. Much to the dismay of a few of the judges. It amuses me greatly.

frankie big face wrote: boffo - i hate songs about the people who are singing them.

You must have been tortured by this round then. It was in the challenge. I bleed for you.

frankie big face wrote: dutova - wow, okay. i'm sure this sounded awesome in your head. i actually really mean that. you just didn't successfully execute the idea due to lack of time, equipment, talent - i don't know! but it's so interesting to have just enough information to know what you were going for but couldn't quite get to. fascinating.

Thanks FBF! We were having software issues, but just plain dropped the ball on the out-of-tune vocals. I plan to get my son to redo his vocals and post it here.

Va of DuToVa

à tous les monsieurs wrote:

frankie big face wrote:
I really like singing this style. (I called it bossa, but Erik says it's a 3/2 samba because bossa is always in 4.) I'm glad you liked my understated performance.

Actually, now that I think about it, samba is probably not the best term. The few jazz charts I have seen that use this groove say slow samba in 3. I don't think that is right. To make the issues more confusing, bossa charts in the US are written in 4 but are clearly felt in 2.

The pattern I am playing most likely a bossa (which is a two bar pattern in 2) with the first beat of the second bar removed.

This is probably not the kind of thing anyone cares about. But I just want to clarify in case there is a Baden-Powell or Jobim scholar waiting to call me out.

Oh yes, I meant to address this, but didn't want to say anything too specific before my reviews were posted.

I'm not a "Jobim scholar," but I do have some familiarity with his songbook. I kind of cocked my head a bit when Frank said the "3/2 samba" thing, because this sounded pretty comfortably bossa nova to my ears. (And now we're exiting my areas of expertise... but I thought sambas had to be in even-numerator time signatures, anyway?)

Anyway. I liked your song a lot. Regardless of which granular jazz subgenre you call it, to my ears it sounded squarely in the tradition. Good work, and I'm looking forward to hearing what else you come up with!

frankie big face wrote:lazarus - another track with great potential ruined by a weak vocal. come on, man! you have such a cool thing going here and your vocal track is just....you should have tried harder.

Part of the reason I wanted to do this is to improve my vocals. I enjoy it much less than making the music and often just have other people sing my songs, but I would like to change that. It's also Festival Internationale where I live; it's the biggest free festival in the U.S. I was very busy setting it up and preparing for it, so they were rushed because I was running out of time. I also was trying for a very detached vibe because it's a theme of the lyrical content. Just to defend myself alittle, but I 100% agree with you.

orange_lazarus wrote:It's also Festival Internationale where I live; it's the biggest free festival in the U.S. I was very busy setting it up and preparing for it, so they were rushed because I was running out of time. I also was trying for a very detached vibe because it's a theme of the lyrical content. Just to defend myself alittle, but I 100% agree with you.

Song Fight rule #1: You don't get credit for having only one leg.

That's not what I was trying to say. Just trying to agree that I did wait until the last minute and I could have 100% tried harder on the vocals. Not trying to get sympathy points, just acknowledging that I also find them lacking, and I will distribute the time allotment to different aspects of the process better in this round. Didn't intend for it to be a complaint, just an agreement with alittle background. xoxox

BoffoYux wrote:

frankie big face wrote: boffo - i hate songs about the people who are singing them.

You must have been tortured by this round then. It was in the challenge. I bleed for you.

Actually, no. Your lyrics were the only lyrics that were blatantly self-referential. The challenge was to use your name in the song, not write an entire about yourselves as a band or artist or songwriter or whatever you are. I'm not saying you didn't meet the challenge—you did; I am saying you are very narrowly interpreting the challenge and you apparently did not listen to the other songs if you think everyone else did what you did.

frankie big face wrote:

BoffoYux wrote:

frankie big face wrote: boffo - i hate songs about the people who are singing them.

You must have been tortured by this round then. It was in the challenge. I bleed for you.

Actually, no. Your lyrics were the only lyrics that were blatantly self-referential. The challenge was to use your name in the song, not write an entire about yourselves as a band or artist or songwriter or whatever you are. I'm not saying you didn't meet the challenge—you did; I am saying you are very narrowly interpreting the challenge and you apparently did not listen to the other songs if you think everyone else did what you did.

I see your argument, but I would counter that BYD were not the only band this week that took that approach. Paco del Stinko, Orange Lazarus, and (arguably) Cavedwellers also did as well. BYD didn't "pull it off" as well as those other entries, but I think that has more to do with their inane lyrics (under the guise of being "funny") and weak vocal performance than with their approach to the challenge.

By the way, here's a genuinely funny example of the challenge (in the bridge).

I think the best would have been what Yes did in Tempus Fugit "....answer to YES!"

The "My Name is Prince!" or "My name is Frank!" is an excellent way to go about it. Any reference to Stripes is usually good!

Generic wrote:
I see your argument, but I would counter that BYD were not the only band this week that took that approach. Paco del Stinko, Orange Lazarus, and (arguably) Cavedwellers also did as well. BYD didn't "pull it off" as well as those other entries, but I think that has more to do with their inane lyrics (under the guise of being "funny") and weak vocal performance than with their approach to the challenge.

(Slow clap) That's the most backhanded defense we've ever been the recipients of. Well done. (Of course, it may be the ONLY defense we've been the recipients of, so there's that.)

I realize you're not a fan of our stuff and we put in a particularly half-hearted entry this go-round, but I'm hoping you'll refrain from gratuitous snark in future comments since you find us so loveable. I know the reviews themselves are a different animal; to your credit I think you nailed ours pretty succinctly.

Generic wrote: I see your argument, but I would counter that BYD were not the only band this week that took that approach. Paco del Stinko, Orange Lazarus, and (arguably) Cavedwellers also did as well. BYD didn't "pull it off" as well as those other entries, but I think that has more to do with their inane lyrics (under the guise of being "funny") and weak vocal performance than with their approach to the challenge.

It makes no sense for me to argue with a judge about another person's song, but no, I disagree. Only Cavedwellers took that tact and only for the last verse. Paco definitely did not do what I'm talking about and, even if Orange Lazarus (sort of) did, their lyrics were exceptional and therefore, they get a pass. Now stop it, Jon!

However, Carlo did do it. But his lyrics are always so hysterical, it doesn't matter.