The Song Fight Bulletin Board

j$ wrote:it’s “underdog” not “under down”

That was my attempt at a Westerbergian play on underdog, and the song wasn't a nod to metal at all, but Bob Mould. The song was inspired by the nihilism in modern films, comic-based films in particular, and how audiences/writers seem to embrace "dark" "complex" heros, as opposed to protagonists that have a more zen-like perspective on the criminal minded (I'd read an interesting article on the Buddhist take on violence happening to good/innocent people, which likened these instances to frames on a film reel).

The one incidental heavy-metal inspired aspect of the song was the striking of metal objects for rhythmic effect...Judas Priest uses this on "Metal Gods," mimicking the march of robots by shaking a tray of silverware. I also used metal springs, buried in the mix a little for tension right before some of the choruses, but brought out in the closing seconds so it could be very clear for the discerning judges.

Ah well, you over-estimated the intelligence of your judging audience, obviously

But if we want to talk Bob Mould, we're on an even keel. If punk, thankfully, was as Pete Shelley described it, "heavy metal played badly", then Mr B.M. was the biggest, campest metal dancing queen on the punk scene. Which it needed. His slightly bizarre autobiography was one of my favourite books (that I read) last year. Shame but appropriate that he's turned into Rob Halford in later life

Basically, what I'm saying is you didn't get cut for failing to meet the challenge, or for failing to meet the title (though you did cheat it). What you did lose out on is not for me to say - apart from my review, which you judiciously quote out of context to embiggen your sense of injustice. Ha!

j$ wrote:Also minus points for kinda cheating the title.

I don't want to offend the moral majority here, but I don't think a song has to repeat the title in the lyrics to qualify. I wrote some lyrics inspired by the title, and that's good enough for me. That said, a better song would not have received scorn over this, so I realize I could have done better.

Manhattan Glutton wrote:

j$ wrote:Also minus points for kinda cheating the title.

I don't want to offend the moral majority here, but I don't think a song has to repeat the title in the lyrics to qualify. I wrote some lyrics inspired by the title, and that's good enough for me. That said, a better song would not have received scorn over this, so I realize I could have done better.

Ah, I did say "kinda". If you avoided the title whilst doing so in such a way that made it clear to the listener that you had incorporated the idea of the title into your lyric, no issue from me; but that you came so close to the title on so many occasions, without saying it, that it came across as contrary at best, belicose at worst (or possibly vice versa). My issue with the song, as you know from reading my review, was the choice of vocal styling. The music - superawesomecoolstuff.

j$

carlo bruno jr wrote:
Is this Strong Bad?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQfy-u7405w

More metal than I will ever be.

Cavedwellers - Not totally sure what to make of this.
It's like these vocals (which are good, but decidedly not "metal")
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Wlw8pz49-g
...combined with this band (which is admittedly "metal" but rather not-good)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LZ00CL8pdI

Really? I don't hear those. We were going for Iron Maiden, Queensryche, Metallica, UFO, Judas Priest. I thought we did well at that goal. Sorry you didn't like our song, we clearly have differing definitions of what metal is.

I will now return to the metal-head closet.

Manhattan Glutton wrote:I don't want to offend the moral majority here, but I don't think a song has to repeat the title in the lyrics to qualify.

2112 #12 & 35

j$ wrote:My issue with the song, as you know from reading my review, was the choice of vocal styling.

Fair enough and noted. I may have been doing a character voice of a metal singer... a character I did on Patient Number 7 from NE 6. Sometimes it's just too fun and easy.

BenKrieger wrote:2112 #12 & 35

I googled this and all I got was a bible verse:
"Anyone who strikes a man and kills him shall surely be put to death."

Also, I'm quite baffled about all the harmony comments I've gotten. I only have harmonies on the "ahhs" - everything else is just octave doubling.

Manhattan Glutton wrote:I googled this and all I got was a bible verse

I was agreeing with you! It was a Rush/Bob Dylan joke.

BenKrieger wrote:I was agreeing with you! It was a Rush/Bob Dylan joke.

I'm going to continue believing it's that bible verse if you don't mind. It seems more badass than Rush or Bob Dylan.

Now excuse me while I go write a falsetto song about making love.

Manhattan Glutton wrote:

governingdynamics wrote:Yeah, not really in my comfort zone. I was attempting to channel what I'll call "garage metal".

You could have fooled me. This is one of my favorite if not my favorite this week. The music is perfect - even the little sloppy parts that aren't timed well sound as though they were done intentionally. It sounds very Tool-ish. The only thing I'm not thrilled about are the high pitched vocals - a lower register or an attempt at a deeper voice would have gone well here. I like this a lot more than the previous songs you did (which were Counting Crows-y, if I recall).

Thanks. I tried something a little throatier (you can hear some of it in the background vocals) but it just sounded kind of flat and contrived by itself. Continuing the garage theme, after that I pretty much did one take (and one punch in when I realized I had written some lyrics that rhymed a word with itself) for both of the vocal parts. I decided doing it too many more times wasn't going to fix anything that was bad and probably mess up things that were good.

I like to think my vocals are an acquired taste, but that's probably just something that people with crap vocals say. It's been a depressingly common complaint in the reviews all competition.

Eric Y. wrote: Governing Dynamics - I do love me some grunge-metal.
I'll be seeing these folks next Monday night!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BafSlqFVuGM

Really appreciate it (and your reviews for the other rounds), and glad you liked it. It seems this was a "love it or hate it" type song but most of the judges were on the side unfavorable to me.

I'm disappointed I got eliminated, but considering the point spread with the three bands/people ahead of me I don't feel all that bad. There will some Nein action if I have time and hopefully I can finally get around to writing some reviews. Thanks to everybody for making me feel welcome.

governingdynamics wrote:after that I pretty much did one take

governingdynamics wrote:I like to think my vocals are an acquired taste

Yeeeeah, not to be a dick, but these two statements just scream "I don't want to sound better". You have a good enough voice but you need to realize when you do a shit take and force yourself to redo it. (And that goes for everyone else, too.)

Manhattan Glutton wrote:

governingdynamics wrote:after that I pretty much did one take

governingdynamics wrote:I like to think my vocals are an acquired taste

Yeeeeah, not to be a dick, but these two statements just scream "I don't want to sound better". You have a good enough voice but you need to realize when you do a shit take and force yourself to redo it. (And that goes for everyone else, too.)

Well... I'll go ahead and qualify the "acquired taste" statement by saying that, although I don't necessarily get a lot of compliments about my vocals at a certain other songwriting contest, I rarely get negative comments about it either. And also I won that contest once, so I have to assume that my vocals were judged at least "okay".

As for the one take thing... well, the context is pretty important there, isn't it? I was intentionally pointing at a garage band type of sound.

Also, if I'm perfectly honest, I didn't really "hear" any better melodies to go after. I could have done it 20 more times and not had any idea if take nineteen was better than five, etc. One reason I don't listen to/write metal most of the time is that I'm not sure how to make purposeful dissonance that sounds "good", at least not vocally.

governingdynamics wrote:I'm disappointed I got eliminated

Me too. It's especially disheartening to see the song I ranked highest overall not making the cut.

Manhattan Glutton wrote:Also, I'm quite baffled about all the harmony comments I've gotten. I only have harmonies on the "ahhs" - everything else is just octave doubling.

Are two things, one octave apart, not in harmony with each other?

glennny wrote:

It's like these vocals (which are good, but decidedly not "metal")
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Wlw8pz49-g
...combined with this band (which is admittedly "metal" but rather not-good)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LZ00CL8pdI

we clearly have differing definitions of what metal is.

I'm not sure I understand: do you disagree that the first linked song isn't "metal", or that the second linked song is? I'm trying to avoid an all-encompassing discussion of what is or isn't "metal"; but I would assume that both of those opinions would be pretty much universally held.

On the other hand, it may be true that we differ in what we are reminded of when we hear your song, in addition to differing in how much we do or don't like what we are reminded of. These things happen.

Eric Y. wrote: Are two things, one octave apart, not in harmony with each other?

No, they are in unison with each other. Or in octaves. But it's not harmony. Texture-wise, we would consider octaves to be an example of "monophony" whereas harmony would be an example of "homophony." FWIW.

HEY! This was a nice surprise. I wasn't really sure about this song—I know there are problems, with the verses especially—but I thought I captured the spirit of metal pretty nicely and I had at least one really nice over-the-top vocal moment.

I also just love the fact that while I was wending my way through Mozart and Holst tonight, my metal song was topping the Nur Ein charts. It is a strange and wonderful life sometimes. Thanks judges!

governingdynamics wrote:although I don't necessarily get a lot of compliments about my vocals at a certain other songwriting contest, I rarely get negative comments about it either. And also I won that contest once, so I have to assume that my vocals were judged at least "okay".

You'd be surprised how disproportionately vocals count in the real world vs these small online communities. Since you've got a great natural start I highly recommend at least trying to improve your ear for vocal things when recording.

governingdynamics wrote:As for the one take thing... well, the context is pretty important there, isn't it? I was intentionally pointing at a garage band type of sound.

That's just bein' cocky. You aren't Jack White, who can wake up in the morning with a hangover and, without brushing his teeth, mostly hit everything on key with a great tone that everyone loves.

governingdynamics wrote:Also, if I'm perfectly honest, I didn't really "hear" any better melodies to go after.

You don't do more takes to figure out or change your melody! You do more takes to not sound like you haven't warmed up your voice!

Anyhow, I'm not trying to bring you down - I think you did a great job, and I personally would not have cut you. I think the positive traits of your song were the composition and instrumentation. The parts that seemed lacking would be vocals and production value. You can figure out production on your own.

j$ wrote: FBF
Camp Rating: Camper than a row of tents. At a drag queen jamboree. The night before the grand final of “Who’s the campest drag queen outdoorperson” competition.

YES!! I'm totally going to spending my prize money on a feather boa.

Also, in this thread alone, you have used the words "belicose" and (my favorite) "embiggen", which pretty much makes you my hero.

(P.S. Comma in this post purposely outside the quotes in your honor.)

frankie big face wrote:in this thread alone, you have used the words "belicose" and (my favorite) "embiggen", which pretty much makes you my hero.

(P.S. Comma in this post purposely outside the quotes in your honor.)

I'm glad someone appreciates the efforts I'm going to

Also, "honour". Ha!

j$

j$ wrote: Also, "honour". Ha!

D'oh! You'll never be able to truly love me.