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Re: Nur Ein! V - Round 1

Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:16 am
by frankie big face
Billy's Little Trip wrote:
Spud wrote: Billy's Little Trip
I am not as convinced by your delivery as last week. This style of singing doesn't seem to work as well for you. I do like the pitch drop at the end of each line of the verse. Your vocals need that kind of structure. Whispering is OK. Peace, Love and Rock, Sex and Barbecue sells it again. It's always the hook with you, isn't it. I could take or leave the harp. Keep trying.
That pitch drop thing was a bugger to hit correctly for some reason. It sounded fine while I was working on my melody and sort of mumbling the vocals out. But once the headphones went on and I started recording vocals, yikes! But I do want to start adding more vocal variation to my songs. I just need to work on it.
Thanks.
Yes, Spud is right about vocal variation. Good advice and a good goal for everyone.

EDIT: Wait, SPUD (OF #) IS PROMOTING VOCAL VARIATION?!

Re: Nur Ein! V - Round 1

Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:20 am
by frankie big face
j$ wrote: As for length, well, I'm no size queen. Get in, do what you have to do, and then go tell your friends about it :)
That's funny. Your lyrics were very good. Can't wait to see what you do with less time.

Re: Nur Ein! V - Round 1

Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:20 am
by Reist
Niveous wrote:so it didn't come out the way you intended.
Disagreed. It came out pretty much how I intended, as far as I can tell. You didn't take it how I intended, but I can't change that, right? As I said, there's no hard feelings here though man - just a difference of opinions.
frankie big face wrote:Dude, why so defensive?
I have the day off, and I have time to kill. :P

Re: Nur Ein! V - Round 1

Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:23 am
by frankie big face
reist wrote:
frankie big face wrote:Dude, why so defensive?
I have the day off, and I have time to kill. :P
Fair enough. Me too! I mean, just what do you mean by that, jerkface?

Re: Nur Ein! V - Round 1

Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:31 am
by phetal
Niveous wrote: Who Fly: It took me quite a few listens to get where you were going with this. It is in serious sonic need. There needs to be more bass or something else in the musical landscape. It’s way too barren and this should have a real triphop feel to it. And why didn’t the vocal delivery change with the musical change at the end. The lyrics were delivered like a Xerox copy throughout, even when the song was becoming (a little more) musically interesting. Overall, this is just too sparse.
There's actually a fairly nimble (for my low standards) bassline throughout half of it, but pretty much the first criticism I had was that I needed to turn it up significantly. I LOVE the band Spoon. Just saw em live, and I love how they can drop down to nothing but a hat on 8ths, kick, snare, a single bass note, some atmospheric bustle and Britt Daniel's voice. And at moments in this song I was trying to channel (not making claims here...) Nude off In Rainbows by Radiohead. But I do get you, and when I'm making trip-hop (though it's a ridiculous designation, 'trip-hop') it's easy to get lost in atmosphere.
Spud wrote: Who Fly
You moved up several positions in my rating this week. I do like tick-tock vocals, don't I? Especially when they give way to something else, which they start to do at 0:43 or so, if only somewhat. Nothing here annoyed me much. In the end, I wish there would have been more build, a good bridge or a break-down somewhere to break it up. Something interested started to happen in the music at 2:45, but it was too little too late.
Thanks. Yeah. Progression, on a deadline especially, is a weak spot. I can add melodic layers like nobody's biz, but when it actually comes to significant, interesting musical change... well I'm working on it. My arsenal includes harmonies and synth knobs and... more synth knobs!

Re: Nur Ein! V - Round 1

Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:56 am
by Lunkhead
I've updated my Nur Ein "spreadsheet":

http://people.geneticmail.com/sam/nur_ein_table.html

Re: Nur Ein! V - Round 1

Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:57 am
by inevitableguy
Wow. I survived round 1 by the very skin of my teeth.

From the reviews so far, it is clear that I was way too subtle with my lyrics - no one gets what I was going for. I will not make apologies for this, merely try to do better in Round 2.

NUR EIN!!

Re: Nur Ein! V - Round 1

Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:09 pm
by Niveous
inevitableguy wrote: From the reviews so far, it is clear that I was way too subtle with my lyrics - no one gets what I was going for. I will not make apologies for this, merely try to do better in Round 2.

NUR EIN!!
I forgot to mention that part. I get that in the end, the character went nuts at Walmart and killed people. But it was too little, too late. There just wasn't enough set-up for the end.

Re: Nur Ein! V - Round 1

Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:26 pm
by frankie big face
Lunkhead wrote:I've updated my Nur Ein "spreadsheet":

http://people.geneticmail.com/sam/nur_ein_table.html
Need to change the IV to a V. Will the criticism never end?! ("What a fool belieeeeeeeeves....")

Re: Nur Ein! V - Round 1

Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 1:03 pm
by Lunkhead
frankie big face wrote:
Lunkhead wrote:I've updated my Nur Ein "spreadsheet":

http://people.geneticmail.com/sam/nur_ein_table.html
Need to change the IV to a V. Will the criticism never end?! ("What a fool belieeeeeeeeves....")
Ha ha. Thanks for the tip, fixed.

Re: Nur Ein! V - Round 1

Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 1:23 pm
by MintyHandy
What a fool belieeeeeeeeves....
Goddammit now that's stuck in my head.

Re: Nur Ein! V - Round 1

Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 1:37 pm
by Spud
frankie big face wrote:Wait, SPUD (OF #) IS PROMOTING VOCAL VARIATION?!
You've got to work with what you've got, Frank. What I've got to work with is different from what Chris has to work with...

Re: Nur Ein! V - Round 1

Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 3:00 pm
by JonPorobil
Billy's Little Trip wrote: The pitchy vocals are supposed to be part of my charm. :P
But I did laugh at my self. I never realized how hard it is to drop the vocal note down to a minor (or whatever it's called). IE: You don't want me, but you won't let me "go". The note on "go" is harder than is sounds to hit. :? ....well, for me, anyway.
For what it's worth, to my ears, that note sounds really tough to hit, and I think you nailed it pretty well. The off-kilter nature of your vocals added to the charm, for me, as wasn't nearly off enough to be distracting.

Re: Nur Ein! V - Round 1

Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 3:08 pm
by JonPorobil
5th of 21. I can live with that, and I offer my humble thanks to whichever of the judges ranked me first.

It's really amazing to me how different things can sound to other people. For instance, a lot of people complained that my song had a "fake ending." In my mind, that was never supposed to be a fake ending, and that broken chord (ending on the so) sounds so unresolved to my ears that I never for a moment considered not continuing. Apparently I just misjudged the length of the pause.

I've got a short list of things I'd want to correct if I revisited this track. For instance, for the spoken-word bits in the intro, I was going for "cafeteria," and wound up with something a bit more "dinner table." I'd want to add more voices, and the sound of microwaves and maybe a ringing phone or something. I highly regret not going back over the first verse for one more vocal take. It sets a bad tone for the rest of the song, and you can hear my air conditioning in the background, to boot! Alas, I ran out of time, and my voice was fried by that point anyway.

5th out of 21 is nothing to complain about, of course, and I probably would have ranked myself there or lower if you'd asked me to do so (man, am I glad I'm not a judge). I came in ahead of some of my own favorite entries, and it's always weird when that happens.

Anyways, see you guys next round. I'll try to keep it around 3:00 this time..

NUR EIN!!

Re: Nur Ein! V - Round 1

Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 3:26 pm
by frankie big face
Generic wrote: Anyways, see you guys next round. I'll try to keep it around 3:00 this time..
I'm going to hold you to this... :D

By the way, did I mention your piano playing was excellent? I know how tough that is to do (although I really have no idea what kind of piano background you have, so maybe it's super easy for you).

Re: Nur Ein! V - Round 1

Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 3:47 pm
by JonPorobil
frankie big face wrote:
By the way, did I mention your piano playing was excellent? I know how tough that is to do (although I really have no idea what kind of piano background you have, so maybe it's super easy for you).
You mentioned it twice (now three times), and like a punk, I forgot to thank you for it.

I've been playing since I was six, so there wasn't much in this piece that was too complicated, but I still wound up spending most of the week perfecting it before even bringing the computer over there, then doing the entire principle recording in the course of a couple of hours on Sunday, and splitting it up into a few takes for good measure. A couple of mistakes still slipped through, but if it were too perfect, someone would have mistaken it for MIDI, I'm sure. I definitely appreciate you taking notice! :)

Re: Nur Ein! V - Round 1

Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 5:08 pm
by MintyHandy
Project "write and record my round two entry in the few hours free I have today before I go out of town" has failed, leaving me with a turd and no time to polish it. I am going to replace the (undoubtedly incorrect, and most definitely mispronounced) Spanish words with their English equivalents, rip off a quick high-and-whiny internal mic man+uke track, and put this whole thing behind me.

but I cannot express in words how surprisingly frustrated and sad i am feeling about this right now

Thanks for the support, by the way -- I'm still kind of shocked I'm so highly ranked so far.

EDIT: On the bright side, I just realized I can always replace the lyrics for "Time to Panic" with "Time for Spanish (Lessons)." \o/ wooooo

Re: Nur Ein! V - Round 1

Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 5:56 pm
by Caravan Ray
Yesterday I learnt the term "contrapuntal harmonies". Today it's "accelerando"! It's always an adventure at Songfight!

It seems to mean speeding up, which is easy. Since I am going away for the weekend, I will have to submit this 3 days early, rather than at the last minute as usual - hence I have satisfied the challenge by default.

Re: Nur Ein! V - Round 1

Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 7:57 pm
by Chris Cogott
Spud wrote:
Chris Cogott
I am a huge Brian Wilson fan, especially latter-day Brian Wilson, and this reminded me a lot of that. Suckered me in. Loved the layering, the harmonies, and the lyrics, cheesy as they might be. 52 times a year. Brilliant. And although this isn't a singing contest, bonus for actually singing better than Brian.
Holy crap! That's a real surprising\shocking compliment. I'll take 'em when I can get 'em although I don't agree. There are few people better at singing than Brian (just my opinion) and I certainly am not one of them. Thanks Spud! I got to say it took me a LONG time to put this together. Singing harmonies to the same parts over and over and then double tracking them takes forever when it's just me doing them. I won't be doing anything like that again anytime soon. It's funny what some people hear because The Beach Boys never even entered my mind when I was recording this. I think a straight up rocker or simple acoustic should do for the next one.

I thought there were a lot of impressive songs in this round and I'm surprised to be up there at #3. Thanks for liking the song. I'll try not to do a slow one again. My next mission is to find out who judge #2 is and shower him with gifts. :D

Re: Nur Ein! V - Round 1

Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:06 am
by Ross
Reviews - Nur Ein! V - Round One
“Stranded” - must include whispering

General Comment - why was there so much fire and burning in this round?

Note: I have not read the other judge’s reviews as of this posting.

Adam - What I liked: some of the counterpoint was interesting, I am impressed this was made on a ds
What I didn’t like: the sheer repetitiveness, vocal production
Challenge: fine

Berkeley Social Scene: What I liked - Great Production and arrangement and such, interesting three dimensional “story”
What I didn’t like: ok, I know we have been ‘round about this before, and I would never accuse Erin of not meaning what she is singing, but there are times when I wish that would project more so that I could feel what she is singing. Great voice, but I wish it emoted more and I think it could give momentum to your tunes, especially in places where the arrangement or playing ramps up and her voice does not follow - in this tune that is in the chorus. She sounds so content and happy to be stranded, but the lyrics don’t say that to me. I know this is your sound, but as long as I am judging I might as well let you know it affects what I hear. - Oh, and I wish she’d sing in spanish more ;-)
Also, While I like your arrangement and variety, there are a couple of busy stereo spots that distracted me from the center, if you know what I mean
Challenge: Fine

Bill and Matt: What I liked- I appreciate that you went for an extended metaphor, but you accidentaly did two, and they didn’t mix well. What does the car metaphor have to do with purgatory?
What I didn’t Like - repetitive melody, clumsy performance, terrible rhymes
Challenge - barely, and not contextual in any way

BLT: What I liked - it rocks, the energy changes in the pre-chorus
What I didn’t like - innacurate vocals - I didn’t really care about the words much
Challenge: Fine

Boop: What I liked - the committed and proficient performance
What I didn’t like - the lyrics, the overly dramatic spoof of melodramatic music,
Challenge - Good, done perfect for the context of this song

Christopher Cogott: What I liked - the sentiment, the aesthetic, the harmonies, everything spot-on
What I didn’t like - the length, a little sterile
Challenge: Perfect and charming for the context of this song
PS - I thought it sounded more like the 80s Alan Parsons Project than like The Beach Boys, although there is transferred influence there.

DJ Ranger Den: What I liked - Risk taking, strong vocals, interesting piano stuff
What I didn’t like: Lack of focus in the strong vocals and interesting piano stuff. You just sound all over the place. In contrast to my comments to Erin, singing like you REALLY REALLY mean it does not necessarily make it meaningful, and I think your vocal mannerisms are a little over-done and distracting in spots.
Challenge: Meh

Emperor: What I like - I really like where you were going with the writing of this song: the theme, musical context you set, patience, etc...
What I didn’t like- almost unlistenable production, the performance needs to be more convincing to pull a folk tale like this off, especially at over 4 minutes
Challnge: Great

Wages: What I liked: some interesting chord changes, subtle use of harmony (assuming it was intentional). Words were nicely simple and elegant
What I didn’t like: Feeling like tha band changed out of desperation, how much of this was written by who? Will this still be the band next week? Weak vocals remain in spots. It was better but still needs to improve. The strict stereo mix
Challenge: eh

J$: What I liked: Great take on the title, energy
What I didn’t like: I wish it was more fleshed out. The overall sound of the track bugged me in a way I can’t quite articulate. i felt a few of the lyrics were overly simple. Second week I have felt that your ending was too abrupt
Challenge: good for the song context.

Jon Eric: What I liked - song arc, the way the time signature stuff has to do with a naturalistic approach to language. commitment. Fleshed out story and structure
What I didn’t like: Your voice sounds a smidge too high, I wish you sounded like you felt more comfortable except in the tense parts. The drums seemed busy. I think it would have played better as piano with strings or something, even an organ patch could fill it in, but the drums were distracting to me. the Big ending was just a bit too big for me, as if I could hear that you were going for a big ending instead of having it emerge.
Challenge: fine

Milo: What I liked - FUN! tiki-tiki, how the whole things sounds like it’s about a real place - totally internally consistent. Well performed, arranged, and produced
What I didn’t like: not much
Challenge: fine for this song

Minty handy: What I liked - the lyrical extended metaphor, well constructed lyrics
What I didn’t like - monotonous tune, and I know you can do better - when you sing higher your melodies are so interesting but this is like the “One Note Samba” with out the samba, and the low voice throughout adds to it, I think you should have popped it up at some point.
Challenge - eh

Naked Philosophy: What I liked: the idea of being stranded in Wal MARt was an interesting concept
What I didn’t like: it just didn’t come off for me, I never could buy in to how the guy was there, etc.... I just couldn’t do the willing suspension piece for some reason. Ended too soon for the narrative I thought
Challenge: eh, I can’t really figure out why it made sense to make all that stuff whispered.

Noah: What I liked - More on pitch this time. it is almost a Pete Yorn feel, nice rock sections
What I didn’t like - not knowing what it was really about, not quite on pitch enough, especially the harmonies - it got a little long
Challenge: ok I guess it is the madness talking?

Rabid: What I liked - the overall feel - lyrics, arrangement, delivery, orchestration. It was very Tom Waits for me. One of my favorites of anything I’ve heard by you
What I didn’t like - your singin is one degree to imprecise, there were a few spots where the piano vamp was too long without more color
Challenge: eh

Real Sign: What I liked: great riff work, solid vocals especially when higher, great John Doe-esque harmonies, great use of the whisper tied into the song theme
What I didn’t like: more enunciaton and less chesty voice will bring out the words when Real sings in the lower range like in the beginning of the song. I couldn’t tell the words the first three listens
Challenge: me likey (see note above)

Same Day Positive: What I liked - the cello
What I didn’t like: unfortunately - almost everything else especially the ...clarinet? accordian???
challenge: eh

Sid: What I liked -as always, the groove and layering (I think I recognize the drums) the take on the title, the invoking of norse gods, the way the sound effects slowly take over.
What I didn’t like: the groove/topic juxtaposition was a little weird, for some reason this doesn’t sound like norse music to me, of course, neither does “immigrant song”, I wanted another section ala bridge.
Challenge: meh

Therman: What I liked - Rockin’ interesting breaks and colors, solid performance and production, the McCartney-esque, half time break near the end (2:50).
What I didn’t like. A vague comment, it seems self-consciously “cool,” the overly thick production made it hard to hear the vocals ind interplay of the parts, too much sound. Either I didn’t “get” the story, or it seemed not nearly as interesting as the music implies it should be. kind of a bunch a nothing, yeah?
Challenge: ok

Who Fly: What I liked - the overall feel/presence of the voice in the groove (a little Eels-ish), how it takes time for the listener to get that there is a triple and not a duple groove, the colors
What I didn’t like - once it got going it just kinda went, in fact it took me several times through to get a solid memory of it to rate it. the way “stranded” is inflected. Never much noticed or got engaged in the words
Challenge: eh

Re: Nur Ein! V - Round 1

Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 1:04 am
by Caravan Ray
Ross wrote: What I didn’t like: the groove/topic juxtaposition was a little weird, for some reason this doesn’t sound like norse music to me, of course, neither does “immigrant song”,
Huh?!?!? Well what does Norse music sound like if it doesn't sound like "Immigrant Song"? I can't imaging Vikings paddling away from an exploding volcano singing Mamma Mia, or a selection of Bjork numbers. (Actually, I honestly didn't even think of Immigrant Song while doing this - but I obviously copied from it unknowingly anyway). And did you notice I refrained from using the "Nordic Fiddle" Apple Loop? I was tempted - but I remained strong. I used an arpeggiated banjo sound from my keyboard instedad.

Re: Nur Ein! V - Round 1

Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 1:11 am
by Ross
Caravan Ray wrote:
Ross wrote: What I didn’t like: the groove/topic juxtaposition was a little weird, for some reason this doesn’t sound like norse music to me, of course, neither does “immigrant song”,
Huh?!?!? Well what does Norse music sound like if it doesn't sound like "Immigrant Song"
Hmm - not sure. I'll be in Norway in June and I will get back to you on that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_rock

And don't forget "In the Hall of the Mountain King"