The Song Fight Bulletin Board

I record with my DT-770 closed phones and do my rough mix with them as well. But even though they are somewhat expensive studio phones, I don't use them in my final mixing process. They tend to make me exaggerate both ends of the spectrum. Scissory highs and blown out bottom. Because of the fact I know that, I try to compensate and just make it worse. Then listen in my car and makes notes to bump it 2db at 500hz-slope off at 10k-dump it at 40hz, etc. WAY too much crap!

For my final mix I use my open back phones and monitors. I think open back phones are a must when tweaking a final mix. I get levels great using my monitors, but tend to get too wide with everything. So I'll tell myself to bring it in a bit, but then listen on phones and it sounds like it's shoved up the middle with nothing on the far left or right. So I mix on my monitors, then my open back phones which force me to pull things in a bit for center imaging, so I don't have wasted space in the center and crowding the left and right stereo field. It allows my mix more room, thus increasing over all dynamics.

I swear by open back phones in your mixing tool bag. To me, they are more important than my monitors.

Caravan Ray wrote:I notice people mentioning "open back" headphones for mixing. What is the advantage of these??

There are three reasons to use open back headphones.
1. So your ears don't get fatigue. Closed-ear headphones cause ear fatigue for a variety of reasons.
2. So bitchez can't sneak up behind you.
3. Something something audio

I use open headphones everywhere so that I am ready in the case of a ninja attack (except airplanes - they don't allow ninjas on airplanes).

It's important to be able to sit with headphones on for literally hours and not get the same headache closed-ear give. Science says this is due to our inner ear trying to balance and failing, or something.

Interesting. I may have to get some to "open backs" to try out, maybe as a step to wean me off headphones and get used to using monitors.

They're not that different, though. Certainly not so much that they'd get you more used to monitors than other headphones would.

jast wrote:The big "advantage" of monitors, though, is that you listen to both channels with both ears, much like most consumers do, and so you get a much more realistic impression of what that's like.

Is this still true? Doesn't most people, most of the time listen on headphones these days?

josh wrote:

jast wrote:The big "advantage" of monitors, though, is that you listen to both channels with both ears, much like most consumers do, and so you get a much more realistic impression of what that's like.

Is this still true? Doesn't most people, most of the time listen on headphones these days?

Well, I would probably listen 60% car stereo, 30% headphones and 10% home stereo - but you seem to make a reasonable point.

Or does he?

I know that my initial mixes often sound crap in my car, because the bass sometimes shakes the crap out of my cheap car stereo, which I don't pick up in my headphones.

I think the idea is if you can make something sound good on monitors - it'll sound good anywhere (including headphones.)

@chocolatechips: Yeah, I was only responding to Jast's statement. I've heard/read that enough respectable places that I gotta believe it. It's pretty tough and expensive to get a decent monitoring situation set up though.

josh wrote:@chocolatechips: Yeah, I was only responding to Jast's statement. I've heard/read that enough respectable places that I gotta believe it. It's pretty tough and expensive to get a decent monitoring situation set up though.

I'm really happy with my Fostex monitors. The set I have is now discontinued (which is probably why they were only $129 when I bought them) but the replacement model is $300/pair, or they've got the smaller/lower-end 3" version for $130/pair.

MusiciansFriend also has 5" JBLs for $150/each ($300/pair). I'd probably avoid the "top seller" Alesis that they have for $100/pair because my experience with Alesis has been very similar to my experience with M-Audio - initally nice but then always ends up having some fatal flaw or dies way prematurely or whatever.

Of course good monitor speakers are only half of the equation since you also have to set up your room acoustics etc.etc. but there are on-the-cheap treatment options you can do that aren't too bad, as long as your work area is set up reasonably symmetrically or whatever.

josh wrote:Is this still true? Doesn't most people, most of the time listen on headphones these days?

I don't have any numbers... but in the end it's still up to you whether you think the people who play your music on the stereo, in the car or at a party are not worth considering.

I think people playing music in a car or at a party won't notice the difference between a good or a bad mix anyway. But I do still target people listening on a stereo because if it sounds good on a stereo it'll sound good on headphones, and sometimes I like listening on the stereo still (even though probably 98% of my listening is on heapdhones these days).

Playing in the car is when I notice the mix the most

I find that road noise gets in the way of listening in the car unless I'm alone and can play it loud... it is a good test of a mix (listening in the car with someone else) even if it's frustrating to listen to for enjoyment.
-bill

fluffy wrote:

Lunkhead wrote:I really enjoy my Audio-Technica ATH-M50 headphones for tracking and mixing. You can get a pair, with a straight cable, for $75 here:

http://www.buydig.com/shop/product.aspx ... 200&ref=cj

You have to add them to your cart then apply the promo code emkswizz to see the discount from $99 to $75.

chocolatechips wrote:I use Audio-Technica ATH-M50s too

Came here specifically to post in favor of the ATH-M50. I love 'em.

Suddenly I need some new headphones. I have a new job, and these people are crazy for teleconferencing by computer, and I'm in a cubicle, and the dockable laptop they gave me has wretched speakers. So I brought in some medium-quality headphones from home, and now I'm looking to replace them. I figured, why not get some nice ones for the studio.

I spent a lot of time at my local Long and McQuade's doing the headphones dance, with "Billie Jean" as a reference track. First I took home some AKG 240's, but I started to notice a mid-low colouration that bugged me. So I went back, explaining that I was looking for something with a flatter response, and the guy helping me specifically suggested ATH-M50s. I tried the ones on the rack, and they sounded good.

But then things got complicated, because they had two types in stock: the old ones, and the new ones (called ATH-M50x). The new ones have a removable cable, which is nice, and they come with three cables: straight long, straight short, and curly. So they're a little more expensive. Replacement pads are not included (the AKG 240's had them).

The new ATH-M50x's also sound different! The official specs are identical, but there is an audible difference. The treble is toned down slightly and seems clearer; in this, I agreed with the guy helping me. I also thought the bass was thicker, but not in an annoying way.

When I got them home and compared them with my beloved Sennheiser 424's, I was happy with them. They are not as transparent as the open-backed 424's, but they have about the same sound profile.

Pound for pound, dollar for dollar, I put my money on a pair of SONY MDR-7506 dynamic stereo headphones.

Comfortable fit, gold plated input tip, long sturdy spiral chord - these are the headphones that come with your admission package to many well known audio engineering programs including New England Institute of Art and Berklee College of Music


Oh and you can get them for under 90$ shipping included

The Sony MDR-7506 are a classic studio headphone, and I can't stand how bright they are. I think they sound great until you hear a more balanced headphone.

I got a pair of JVC HAS400B Carbon Nanotube headphones for my bday and they sound really great for $30.
http://www.amazon.com/JVC-HAS400B-Nanot ... n+nanotube