Pop Songs of Hate

Mogosagatai · Post by **Mogosagatai** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 5:27 pm

It's both their parents, but I think they live with their mom. (I did some reading.)

But yeah, it seems like it's mostly the mom who's pulling the strings. Makes you think: It probably isn't these girls' fault that they're so misdirected, being surrounded by that shit all the time. I wonder if they'll ever become decent people. They'd probably have to go through a good bit of hell first. That sucks.

fodroy · Post by **fodroy** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 5:35 pm

Mogosagatai wrote:Makes you think: It probably isn't these girls' fault that they're so misdirected, being surrounded by that shit all the time.

well, you could say the same thing about their parents. they most likely have these views because they grew up with them. sure the kids may going through a brainwashing, but someone who's been brainwashed to be an asshole is still an asshole.

jack · Post by **jack** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 5:41 pm

someone should make those kids watch this.

WeaselSlayer · Post by **WeaselSlayer** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 5:46 pm

Something tells me the problem's a little more deep-rooted, might need a bit more gardening than that.

Mogosagatai · Post by **Mogosagatai** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 5:49 pm

fodroy wrote:well, you could say the same thing about their parents. they most likely have these views because they grew up with them. sure the kids may going through a brainwashing, but someone who's been brainwashed to be an asshole is still an asshole.

I totally agree. That's what sucks--that so many people are assholes who might not've been if only they were raised differently.

Leaf · Post by **Leaf** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 7:57 am

Whether the mom, the dad, the uncle or WHOEVER hashad an influence in teaching the kids is no longer relevant. When a human reaches a certain stage in life, they gotta take responsibility for their own actions. Someone put those ideas to the mom originally... now she forwards it to the kids... and now it's up to them to make up their own minds. Blaming the parents or some other agenda does not excuse their bullshit!

erik · Post by **erik** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 9:15 am

Leaf wrote:When a human reaches a certain stage in life, they gotta take responsibility for their own actions.

I think that being 13-year-old homeschooled kids doesn't give them a lot of opportunities to take responsibility for their own actions. Fear and hate are inborn natural emotions, and only through interactions with people that we don't know do we learn that, hey, maybe not everyone who is different than me is evil. But these kids, they're not given the chance to learn anything that might be "dangerous". They're not interacting with the world at large. They haven't had a chance to have experiences of their own, to meet and get to know the people that they have been taught to hate. I mean, yes, at some point you can't blame the parents anymore for fucking up their kids lives. But when the kids are 13 and homeschooled, I think you can still blame the parents.

Leaf · Post by **Leaf** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 10:38 am

fair enough... but the clock is ticking.

I read their message board...they seem to think that because they are polite and don't like pr0n that somehow this makes their racist perspective "right". Some individual on there dissects anti-racist arguments by attacking grammar and emotional responses and flipping it into "see we don't do that so we are right". They challenge people to use logic and reason, and are convinced that they can "win" these arguments.

Talk about fucked up. Saying the sky is made of cotton candy and food dye does not make it so, and logic is not equivalent to fact.

Nothing about "preserving the race" and " keep us pure" makes absolutely any logical, ethical or moral sense.

However, they did raise an excellent point about how black music is allowed to preach a pro-black agenda, about how hiphop and rap artists use racism in their music to mass acceptance, but when they do the "same" thing it is attacked. I think it's both wrong, personally,but hey...they had a point.

Otherwise, them girls, if you check the photo journal section, go from looking sweet and innocent to hard and nasty as the years progress. They are gonna be some angry mean bitches rather soon...

erik · Post by **erik** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 1:49 pm

Oh come on now. They don't look all hard and nasty. They look like typical 13 year olds, in that they're trying to become human Bratz dolls. That's what's really scary, is that you really can't identify the unapologetically racist just by looking at them. They're not all going to be in overalls with missing teeth and a lazy eye, playing banjo music cuz they're lacking in book learnin' (and stinky to boot). What's creepy is that people like this might be living next door to you, or work with you, and you'd never know.

fodroy · Post by **fodroy** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 1:52 pm

we can find them out by talking about how cool our black and jewish friends are and see who gets mad.

erik · Post by **erik** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 2:03 pm

Yeah, that's totally going to work.

Bjam · Post by **Bjam** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 2:38 pm

I was such a good 13 year old compared to them. Actually, hm, I had pink hair when I was 13. Such a rebel.

mkilly · Post by **mkilly** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 2:38 pm

Leaf wrote:However, they did raise an excellent point about how black music is allowed to preach a pro-black agenda, about how hiphop and rap artists use racism in their music to mass acceptance, but when they do the "same" thing it is attacked. I think it's both wrong, personally,but hey...they had a point.

I don't think there's much in the way of racism on the parts of rappers in the contemporary music scene. Mariah Carey is of mixed race, Dan the Automator and Chad Hugo are both Asian, Eminem is white and his mentor was Dr. Dre of NWA and his protege is 50 Cent, probably the most popular rapper right now. MF Doom did an album with DJ Danger Mouse, who is white. Pharrell works with Gwen Stefani and others. The mentioned Dan the Automator did a few albums with Kool Keith and Del tha Funkee Homosapien and others. If they're racists and think the races should not mingle and they should "preserve black culture" they're not doing a very good job of it. I don't know what "pro-black agenda" means. If it means "equal rights and representation" then that's a pretty noncontroversial belief, as is the case with a pro-woman agenda and its analogue.

If there's much in the way of racial sentiment in rap then it's anger at anti-black (or not-pro-black) policies and sentiment, in my experience. Or discussion of the contemporary black experience. I don't think that racial discussion is necessarily racist discussion. I don't think there's any popular rappers that have beliefs so extreme as these two girls'. I didn't spend much time on the site or article (because it's just the same garbage I've heard before, and saw as in American History X) but it looked like they weren't only pro-white, they were also anti-black. Being pro-white doesn't strike me as virtuous, but being anti-black does offend my values. One can have distaste for aspects of contemporary black culture (anti-intellectualism, misogyny, athlete worship) but that's issue with aspects of culture. These people make the leap from being anti-vice to a belief that all black people are evil or inferior.

just some thoughts.

Leaf · Post by **Leaf** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 9:57 pm

Not what I was talking about.

I have heard black rappers rapping anti-white stuff before. It exists, and from these people's perspective, its' fair to ask why they would be attacked for their hate while another would not. Your response is as ridiculous (please, not a personal attack) as their responses to "how can you justify racism?" because it does not actually address the actual question. No one said "all of".
Just cause some one is a racist does not mean that they can not ask a valid question.

Erik, I was talking about the shitty mean look in their eyes. I'm sure your opinion on "what a teen looks like" is valid, but please, save the condesesion for something more meaningful like how I can't spell condescion. Twice.

mkilly · Post by **mkilly** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 10:16 pm

Um, okay. If white politicians and people are endorsing anti-black policy, is it anti-white to object to that? What do you mean by anti-white? Malcolm X's extreme views are not in the mainstream of contemporary black culture.

You said black music is "allowed to preach a pro-black agenda," and I said I didn't know what that means. What does that mean. How do hiphop and rap artists use racism in their music? What are some examples? What audience accepts and embraces them for using racism in their music? That's kind of a catch-22, because I should think that if they were after "mass acceptance" they probably couldn't be racists towards the masses they were after.

Mogosagatai · Post by **Mogosagatai** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 11:55 pm

mkilly wrote:If white politicians and people are endorsing anti-black policy, is it anti-white to object to that?

Depends on how you do it. It's anti-white to object to white people. It's perfectly normal to object to oppressors. Even if all your oppressors were white people, you still wouldn't be justified in objecting to all white people. There's a fine line.

mkilly wrote:You said black music is "allowed to preach a pro-black agenda," and I said I didn't know what that means. What does that mean.

He meant <i>only</i> pro-black. Not supporting anyone else. Like white nationalists do.

mkilly wrote:How do hiphop and rap artists use racism in their music? What are some examples?

I'll leave it to someone else to point out specific examples, because I don't know of any.

mkilly wrote:What audience accepts and embraces them for using racism in their music? That's kind of a catch-22, because I should think that if they were after "mass acceptance" they probably couldn't be racists towards the masses they were after.

"They" of course refers to the hypothetical rappers (some of which definitely exist) who would try to spread a message of black supremacy. Who do you think they're targetting? Don't ask such silly questions.

erik · Post by **erik** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 11:57 pm

Leaf wrote:Erik, I was talking about the shitty mean look in their eyes. I'm sure your opinion on "what a teen looks like" is valid, but please, save the condesesion for something more meaningful like how I can't spell condescion. Twice.

I'm not condescending, I'm just disagreeing with you. I really don't see any hardness in their faces. They look happy in most of the pictures I've seen.

pegor · Post by **pegor** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 12:05 am

erikb wrote:... identify the unapologetically racist just by looking at them. They're not all going to be in overalls with missing teeth and a lazy eye, playing banjo music cuz they're lacking in book learnin' (and stinky to boot). .

how do you smell? - ahhh like unexamined hypocrisy. Just two generations back this quote described my Irish farmer immigrant family. Who BTW worked, lived and partied side by side with black share croppers. So now lets talk about liberal sophists who are class prejudice vs ignorant little girls who are racist.

or not.....

erik · Post by **erik** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 12:31 am

pegor wrote:
erikb wrote:... identify the unapologetically racist just by looking at them. They're not all going to be in overalls with missing teeth and a lazy eye, playing banjo music cuz they're lacking in book learnin' (and stinky to boot). .
how do you smell? - ahhh like unexamined hypocrisy. Just two generations back this quote described my Irish farmer immigrant family. Who BTW worked, lived and partied side by side with black share croppers. So now lets talk about liberal sophists who are class prejudice vs ignorant little girls who are racist.

or not.....

Hey genius:

Just because I can succintly summarize a widely acknowledged stereotype doesn't mean that I subscribe to it. It's not prejudiced to be aware of stereotypes that other people believe in.

I have no clue why you think I'm a liberal or a hypocrite. I've said nothing in this thread that would paint me as either of these things. You're using both of these words very, very, very incorrectly, and since other people use them alot, it would probably be a good idea to figure out what they really mean.

erik · Post by **erik** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 12:41 am

mkilly wrote:How do hiphop and rap artists use racism in their music? What are some examples?

Here is a list that was posted on the Prussian Blue messageboard: http://www.amren.com/rap/rap1.htm (Note: For people at work or whatever, American Renaissance is a website that some will consider racist.)

WeaselSlayer · Post by **WeaselSlayer** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 12:42 am

Does it make me a misanthrope if I think that the fact that these girls are making music is just further evidence of the absurdity of life and I can laugh at it in a somewhat sorrowful way? I mean, I looked at this and thought "what fucked up shit, it's like a Mr. Show sketch (whoever mentioned the Bad News Breakers was right on)" but I'm not about to start discussing racism because it's so deeply rooted in everything that we couldn't possibly dig up what it's all about. So, better to just shrug and chalk it up to one other thing we can't do a god damn thing about and maybe have some champagne and watch a spider rebuild its web after the rain's destroyed the first one she made.

j$ · Post by j$ » Fri Oct 28, 2005 2:02 am

Sadly, it doesn't make you anything as determined as a misanthrope. Just lazy.... :p