The Song Fight Bulletin Board

Here are comments based on one listen in the car and a brief check in.

Round two

BeWells – Rockin’ Reminds me of Gin Blossoms, which I like. Nice melody work, but you always have that. It’s fun to hear you rock, I’m not sure I have before.

Bjam – noce sound, nice singing. Because of the stretched changes the tune occasionally sounds forced. The words aren’t grabbing me too much, but the chorus is nice. I’d like to hear more variation in the guitar arrangement.

Calfborg – Since my first fight (gallows hill) I have liked what you do. So the overall sound is something I’m kind of into. This particular song doesn’t seem especially strong to me and is a bit long.

MC Paul – sorry, lost me.

Deshead – As always, great sound - the disco thing seems a little new for you(?). I also like the content of this song and the “Whole day..â€

rdurand wrote:Octothorpe – I am going to have to come to grips with the fact that this is not my thing. Not qualified to evaluate, But I do like hearing Mad Dog sing – it is a good aesthetic.

That's quite all right. We prefer honesty over feigned enthusiasm. In fact, we barely get reviews anymore, which is a little discouraging. Everyone always just says "yup, that's Octothorpe all right", and I have no idea what they think of it. We know we sound like Octothorpe. We ARE Octothorpe. We are no longer striving to sound like Octothorpe. We have that down. We would prefer to get better. Well, some of us would, anyway. Thanks for bucking up. However, I must respectfully disagree. There must be something that we could do to make you dislike it a little less...

Spud wrote: There must be something that we could do to make you dislike it a little less...

DON'T CODDLE TO THE MASSES!

jack wrote:

Spud wrote: There must be something that we could do to make you dislike it a little less...

DON'T CODDLE TO THE MASSES!

Seconded (I thought 'Coddled' was a way to cook eggs).
You are what you are, and if some don't appreciate it's their loss.

Here are my thoughts on Octothorpe blunt as can be: ideas are great. Musical direction is great. Attitude is great. Personalities are fantastic. Execution is often stiff. About the only thing I think of when I listen that could "improve" is the execution of the ideas. Sometimes it sounds stilted; sometimes some parts are a bit out of the overall pulse. Otherwise, you'd have to start compromising your musical concept and direction, and then it's out the window and Octothorpe doesn’t have its voice.

When I first heard it, all I could notice WAS the execution. When I started listening to it for the ideas, I couldn't put my finger on what was going on... but I knew something was. When I played with you all, and saw the genuine vibe and energy and the show, it came full circle. I realized how much intent was in the music… and I dig that. And when I was listening to Captain Beefheart a few weeks ago, I finally had something (cause I’m afraid my brain works this way) to draw a comparison to!

And Spud, if it's any consolation I had spent a big part of 2005 questioning my own musical directions. I felt like I couldn’t do anything to get the response I thought I was looking for… then I had a bit of a epiphany and realized I do what I do, and that’s the end of it. I‘ve been much happier with my writing. Sometimes, others seem to like it more now too, but I still can’t seem to write something to please my real-life band!! Oh well… win some, lose some,

But the reason so many people dig Octothorpe on SF is not because you have a solid hand in running the show, but because it’s true and honest music that has a concept, that is original, fun and quirky. At least, that’s my opinion.

My Sleeper Reviews:

Jolly Roger: Slow start to this one. I get that it's supposed to set a mood but it drags the song down a bit. I don't know what is the big hubbub others have had over the guitar, it's decent in this one. The vocals are better than last round as is your prosody. The chorus has a little hook to it and the percussion is working for me. Your tunes have been a welcomed surprise in the Nur Ein. Good work.

HInc.: I'm a sucker for samples like this one, when smartly chosen. A good example is Sonofsupercar's "Frannie". The choice here is good as well. Then the song changes up and gets this New Order feel but the lyrics about Rip Van Winkle aren't very interesting. This has some charm and some failings. It's 50/50 on it. I like the music a lot. The verses aren't good. The "But did he miss his wife" line is delivered with the delicacy of a bowling ball and the song ends with it. That isn't good.

Deshead: Well, well, well. For once, I can't call Deshead Josh-Woodwaed-Junior. I dig the keyboards underlying with the sweet guitar licks. It has this Santana vs. Disco feel that is really working. I think the percussion is a little weak but overall, this is a very strong entry.

BeWells: Rock from the BeWells? Well, aren't we full of surprises. But honestly, this doesn't hold my attention in the least. I've heard this tune a bunch of times and every single time I zone out. It's just every bland. The vocals aren't very interesting at all. The lyrics are cookie cutter rock lovesong. The BeWells were on cruise control this week. Still in the race but not pushing for the lead.

Denyer: What the hell. Note, I used the word hell instead of fuck. The music on this track is bad videogame midi and the curses are overdone. And the delivery is crap too. Natalie Portman was more believable in her SNL rap. "'We Love you Natalie'/ I wanna fuck you!/ P is for Portman/ P is for Pussy"

Leaf 62: I know Alice in Chains are reuniting, I didn't know you were replacing Staley. A lesson to the competitors, if you wanna get on my good side bring more rock. This is very good and definitely one of my favorites of this week. I've been needing a good grudge song in my jukebox and this is it. Thanks Leaf.

Sausage Boy: You have a knack for building a barebones groove but I hate the heavily buried vocals. Lyrics are useless under the weight of the effects, leaving me with the barebones of the percussion and the bass. I like the bass but the percussion is the dominant sound in the song and I really wish it wasn't. This is mediocre.

Bjam: Y'know what Bjam. I'm tired of you coasting on pretty. Is this song any different from last week's??? I want something different from you. Hell, at SF Wayne, you know what we should do. We should cover some Nirvana or something else grungy because you just sit in your safeplace. The vocals are good and pretty. The guitar is sweet. The lyrics are passable. But you ain't gonna be standing on the winner's podium with more entries like this.

Tex: J$ is right, this is Monkees-Nouveau. But I loved the Monkees so I'm happy with it. It's very short yet extremely repetitious. That's difficult to pull off. It's not something you want to do but it takes a lot. I like Tex more that Ray so far. I dig the bridge on this one. Decent, not great.

Ross Durand: This is 80's metal. Y'know when every metal band had to have a power ballad no matter how gruff the vocalist so you ended up with songs like "Living Without You" by Shotgun Messiah and "House of Pain" by Faster Pussycat. The gruff vocals, the guitar solo, the chorus of voices, all good. I love this one. Kudos, Ross.

Ken: The vocals are interesting. I wish you were British, that accent would really work on this. Think Morriseey. The percussion is unexpected but it's very weak. The vocals carry this. It doesn't hook me but I don't feel like I've been punished having to hear this 5 times. Decent.

Kamakura: That's right, Kamakura. You knew you had to bring your guitar this week. Another song like last week would've been the nur ein equivalent of a suicide note. The verses are only okay. But the chorus is very Pink Floyd and very enjoyable. Just the right amount of reverb on that guitar solo. It's very nice. I would prefer Final Cut era Floyd ("When the Tigers Broke Free"), but this is good.

WreckdoM: Like I said last week, Wreckdom's guitarist is awesome and needs to get more notice. This is pure Wreckdom. The dual pitch vocals, the Buckethead slick guitars, the wild lyrics. Avant-garde and a completely different take on Sleeper. Another Wreckdom gem.

Calfborg: More rock. This is the way to this judge's heart. Everytime I listen to this, I dig it more. The vocals are too effected for my ear but the guitars and drilled-in-your-brain cymbals work for me. It's like Flat Duo Jets meets Jute Gyte. Barebones and visceral rock. Good stuff.

Thornberry: I hate the plink-plink opening but then you brought this powered-up pop rock. The vocals on the verses is very strong. I think you made a wise choice with the higher octave. The screams are pathetic. Some just can't and you are one of those (so am I). Pretty good song.

Glenn Case: Winner of the funniest struggle not to rhyme. This is stellar as always. I actually liked your first vocal take better. Interesting bridge. I don't know if I like it but I do know what I do like- the end on the guitar solo but the drums hurt the end a bit.

Octothorpe: Classic #. I read your comment about changing your style. Appease no one but yourself. Some will find stuff to enjoy, others won't. The ones who don't, screw them. As long as you express what you desire to express, you'd succeeded. But then again, this is the Nur Ein and you have to appease a jury too. Luckily, I dig this song. It's fun.

Tyrrell: You brought the metal. "Where's Paulie!". You may have immunity for this round but you made one of this week's best songs. The lyrics are great especially the Chuck Norris roundhouse. Great work.

This is going to be an extremely tough decision. A lot of you brought your A-Game.

Thanks for the insight Leaf. I agree that there should be no major change of direction. That's not what I was talking about. I like being Octothorpe and don't want to change that. However, it is good to have something specific to work on, and believe me, in the past, this board has provided with a great many to choose from, and we have tried to address them. From eliminating the noise from our sound chain (mostly accomplished) to better mixing (I am pleased with our progress here), to whatever. Execution. Less stiff. Do you mean we should drink even MORE beer?

Since I've started doing SF, I now listen to things entirely differently, and I've comed to the realization that most of what I listen to recreationally would get panned by many and would probably seldom get votes, let alone actually win. But a few like-minded people would love it nonetheless. I know we should write for only ourselves, but it would be hard for me to keep writing if I thought no one anywhere would ever like my songs. But every once in a while one person likes one aspect of my song and that's enough to make me keep going. Even if it doesn't happen every week

Niveous wrote:Bjam: Y'know what Bjam. I'm tired of you coasting on pretty. Is this song any different from last week's??? I want something different from you. Hell, at SF Wayne, you know what we should do. We should cover some Nirvana or something else grungy because you just sit in your safeplace. The vocals are good and pretty. The guitar is sweet. The lyrics are passable. But you ain't gonna be standing on the winner's podium with more entries like this.

Yeah, I know. But at the minute I just don't have the items to make anything more substantial. I have a guitar and I have my voice. When I try to rock it up g&g stylee I get criticism. When I try to do a pretty song I get "this is bland" criticism. If I could play drums and bass and all those other 'layering' items then sure, I'd rock the hell out. When I play with friends I rock out. I sing/scream the lyrics with 'passion'. But I can't do that in my bedroom when I've got school all day, work all Saturday, after school commitments, trying to organise god damn events, and a general lack of instrumentation/skills/time. There are plenty here who stay in their safe zone. Octothorpe do kooky, Deshead does well produced, Melvin does indie pop rock. So... yeah. I'm trying, but I just don't have the means. And to be honest, doing a song in four days isn't gonna bring the most out of people. I dunno. Whatever.

Rise to the challenge. That's what he's saying. Also, a wise person once told me..."people dont' give advice to people unless they think they are worth it on some level"... I always liked that.

Bjam wrote:Yeah, I know. But at the minute I just don't have the items to make anything more substantial. I have a guitar and I have my voice. When I try to rock it up g&g stylee I get criticism. When I try to do a pretty song I get "this is bland" criticism. If I could play drums and bass and all those other 'layering' items then sure, I'd rock the hell out. When I play with friends I rock out. I sing/scream the lyrics with 'passion'. But I can't do that in my bedroom when I've got school all day, work all Saturday, after school commitments, trying to organise god damn events, and a general lack of instrumentation/skills/time. There are plenty here who stay in their safe zone. Octothorpe do kooky, Deshead does well produced, Melvin does indie pop rock. So... yeah. I'm trying, but I just don't have the means. And to be honest, doing a song in four days isn't gonna bring the most out of people. I dunno. Whatever.

*You can rock up G&G. I do it all the time.

*"Doing a song in 4 days isn't gonna bring the most out of people" ??? Which Nur Ein have you been listening to? Have you heard Thornberry or Glenn or Wreckdom or Deshead or Sven

* Sometimes it's okay to stay in your safe zone. But during the Nur Ein, you've played it too safe. You basically phoned in those entries. I like your music and I've heard big and better things come from you. You have the talent. Why not try something different, like write about a different theme perhaps? Maybe change a time signature? Use a couple different chords? You can stay in your safe zone and still put a tiptoe on the outside.

*Did I say your song was bland? No. It's pretty. It's good. But if you were putting together a Bjam greatest hits album- it would be filler.

* I know you're trying and you succeed. You make good music. But I know you can do more with it.

Bjam wrote:trying to organise ... events

and for this alone, you rock.. thanks bjam and stuey!
-bill

I think there will be a delay in the results. (one of the judges is MIA)

And the new title/ immunity challenge? will that be released along with round 2 results then?

Niveous wrote:I think there will be a delay in the results. (one of the judges is MIA)

Is it Paula Abdul? Straight up now tell me.

Ken

ken wrote:

Niveous wrote:I think there will be a delay in the results. (one of the judges is MIA)

Is it Paula Abdul? Straight up now tell me.

Ken

Yeah, she was caught in a hit and run.

Niveous wrote:BeWells: Rock from the BeWells? Well, aren't we full of surprises. But honestly, this doesn't hold my attention in the least. I've heard this tune a bunch of times and every single time I zone out. It's just every bland. The vocals aren't very interesting at all. The lyrics are cookie cutter rock lovesong. The BeWells were on cruise control this week. Still in the race but not pushing for the lead.

I normally wouldn't respond directly to this, but I am curious myself if there is anything I can do in terms of vocal direction that would help to make things more interesting. I am completely not rock. This is actually the closest I have ever come (with Fell Out Of The Sky an example of a weak earlier attempt), and I personally think the vocal doesn't match up in quite the right way with the instrumentation. In person, I am extremely mellow and quiet and any vocal attempt I have made at putting more of a rock edge on the sound comes off pretty badly. I really don't see myself as a lead singer at all...I'd rather be singing backup to someone like my sister (but we live in different areas of the country and she doesn't have regular internet access, so only two songs together thus far) or blending into a group sound.

You did, however, lose me on the "cookie cutter rock lovesong" lyrics and "cruise control" comments. First, the song itself is (mostly) about a friend who committed suicide and subsequently trying to dwell on the happier moments spent together...hence the more upbeat pop-rock attempt. If it comes off as a generic lovesong, then I clearly need to revisit my lyrical approach. Come to think of it, my lyrics are actually more often about death than love. I don't like writing love songs, so I usually try to make them about other types of relationships if I cannot have someone die in the song.

Then, if you listen to any portion of what I have done here in the past, this is clearly an attempt to stretch beyond my country/folk tendencies. I also know the effort that went into this song and understand that none of that necessarily translates into the song itself. It probably plays out differently for every listener, but there was certainly no "cruise control" in the intent and making of the song. This was a conscious step away from my usual style and while I recognize that some things could be better (I'm my harshest critic in that regard) I am still not sure what you meant.

I know the last two songs bored you, but is there anything I can do with the raw elements I have available that would help to add some spark of interest? Honestly, some of the things you like in other songs are the things I don't like about those songs, so I think there is a large disconnect in preferences coming into play here. But I am open to considering other options and suggestions that anyone may have if there are even some basic elements of my sound that I can work with to enhance the enjoyment factor for those listening. Sorry if this is all a bit too wordy...I should probably try making more frequent smaller posts.

Niveous wrote:I think there will be a delay in the results. (one of the judges is MIA)

I say eliminate him and get on with it.

sausage - in an odd coincidence, this played directly after tom waits' "big time" album, and this song's rhythm track would fit perfectly in that album. the vocals need to come more forward, but this is very cool. the bass is excellent. this part at 3:00 the vox seem somewhat offbeat but i don't know if that's a bad thing. i like this a lot.

ross - the chorus sounds very nice. the verse vox aren't quite as good. er, actually i guess that's just the first verse. nice one. i like the singing later on a lot.

jollyr - the musical stuff is great, i like the feel of this quite a bit, but i think the practice of trying to fit too many syllables in each line is hurting the song a lot. around "headed" you get kinda off pitch. i think the main thing here is to sing slower, or something.

tex - this new persona seems to be working out. i like the freshness of these songs. they're kinda different. do you normally pronounce "again" like that? the repeated vocal lines really seem to work here, and i usually hate that. this is great.

denyer - ouch, don't like the lyrics in the slightest. wow, i think i shouldn't listen to this at work. oh well, first nur ein song i have to hit the "skip" button on.

jimt - yeah! nice guitar. you should tame the plosive on the first "paulie" and a couple more here and there besides. good synth there too at the end of the chorus. i think your limbwalking has been a good thing. the lyrics are kinda odd. i don't miss the rhymes on the chorus.

# - i love the little instrumental interlude at :15. the vocal seems to be mixed low. i want this vocal to have more emotion in it... like the live video of you guys i watched yesterday.

bjam - now, on yours i do miss the rhymes. maybe your voice is going too many steps up at once a few times? i like the guitar figures, though.

bewells - you use "arise" on line 2 and "arises" on line 3. "as the night reveals" doesn't resolve into a sentence... i'm bugged by this stuff. the exuberance of the guitar is a nice thing. the little vocal "dream" embellishment is nice there. pretty good.

ken - i want this to pick up. it sounds nice in general, but it feels a bit samey.

wreckdom - interesting, but not entirely my thing. honestly, too much sweary and not too much i can grab onto, a very mushy sounding song.

kamakura - nice guitar there. Nice "Dreams" singing there. hey, this is good. heh, good lyrics. the ending is good.

deshead - good vox. the slight raspiness of the opening vox really reinforces the feel of the lyrics. the pickup is cool. maybe it doesn't fit the feel as much, but it sounds great anyway. catchy one here.

leaf - man leaf is some heavy stuff. and good. nice structure of the lines, it really de-emphasizes the nonrhyming aspect. i don't miss it at all. the vocals and guitar are great. i like the different voice styles used in different parts.

glenn - nice bouncy feel. the vox feel a bit samey, until the chorus comes in, but maybe it's too long before that happens. twice. i love the guitar solo.

calfborg - not as fond of the vocal style on this track. i kinda like the lyrics, though, that's cool. i like this instrumental break near the end.

hinc - mine. this is a tapegerm song, so it uses loops made before the day, but they were all made by other people and i didn't hear any of them (or the movie) before i heard the song title. i accidentally rhymed a line the first time i sang it so i had to re-do a bit

thornberry - ooh, neat vocal effect. hey, this is cool. more rocky than i expected, nice way to branch out, the yell into guitar solo, nice. running out of time here

favorites: sausage, tex, jimt, kamakura, deshead, leaf, hinc, thornberry
-bill

Scores are being tabulated. The results will be out before 5:30PM EST.

Spud wrote:However, I must respectfully disagree.

You disagree that he doesn't like your song?

bwell wrote:

Niveous wrote:stuff

lots more stuff

I will reply to you, Bwell. (I've gotta fix up the Nur Ein stuff)

But just let me state that I like some of your tunes, especially "The Truth about Aspertame". It's just these last two. I'll give you more of a comment later.