The Song Fight Bulletin Board

Mostess wrote:

roymond wrote:this page

Very, very nice. (though your use of the top row of radio buttons to indicate "anywhere on the neck" does make all the chord names look a semi-tone too low).

I added a note to that page, indicating that the first row of buttons was for open strings (I modified a javascript widget, so I had to work with what I had).

yeah, but barre chords give you strong wrists and fingers. and strong wrists and fingers make you a better guitar player. and it's nice to be able to change an octave pretty easily and quickly.

i still think deshead's advice ranks among the best. relax the wrist.

jack wrote:yeah, but barre chords give you strong wrists and fingers. and strong wrists and fingers make you a better guitar player. and it's nice to be able to change an octave pretty easily and quickly.

We can flame about this all night, but finger dexterity and independence will win over clenched-fist barre chords any day.

I still think deshead's advice ranks among the best. relax the wrist.

I tried the advice that Jim Tyrell said back there about the down ____ down up ____ up down ____ ... it actually helps so much! Thanks Jim!

I'm with erik on the barre chord thing.

Jazz guitarists wouldn't be caught dead playing an open chord. And saying a barre chord is 1-3-5 heavy is also kinda silly. A competent player can get any variety of chord out of any part of the neck.

Aside from the notes being played, the sound that comes out of the middle of the neck is different from what comes out of the end. You get a sweeter sound, but with less sustain.

The point is, avoiding or emracing any one technique based on... nothing, really, is kinda silly.

Guitarists are naturally dogmatic as hell, it seems Play a lot, make sure you're picking both ways, not just down. Practice with and without distortion. Don't look at your fingers when playing if you can. Use your pinkie, for christ's sake.

When you are halfway decent, take a couple lessons.

Of course using everything at your disposal is the key (and I said I use them plenty). I wasn't trying to be dogmatic, or suggesting not playing barres. I feel that in learning mode, once you get the barres going, it helps tremendously to learn alternative voicings for strength and dexterity, as well as added texture and harmonic flavor.

Barre chords do emphasize 1-5-8 (not 1-3-5) in standard tuning, and then with a bass in the mix this often further de-emphasizes the 3rd, and other harmonic "color".

Also, I wasn't targeting the beginner in all this silliness. Sorry. Silly, yes. I hear you. And so I'm done.

Indeed, relax the wrist. Both wrists.

And also note how your wrists lock up when you squeeze the pick too tight, or press too hard on the strings. You can't relax your wrists if you're choking the guitar.

deshead wrote:Indeed, relax the wrist. Both wrists.

I thought this sounded cheesy at first, but it helps a lot, especially when using the strumming pattern that Jim talked about back there. Using these in combination during practicing was helpful for me.

Uh, I recently got broadband at home and have been surfing youtube alot. Almost all the guitar lesson stuff is crapolaughable(c) but this guy is good. so I thought I give him a plug. Beginning to intermediate stuff presented well.

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=JustinSandercoe
and
http://www.justinguitar.com for lesson tabs and forums

Plus he plays with Katie Melua, who I'd never heard of, but is one of those rare chick singers that is equally fascinating with the sound off or on

pegor wrote: he plays with Katie Melua,

This is no reccommendation, apart from the 'at least it's not KT Tunstall' implication!

Posting in a dead thread!

Guitar Anti-tips:
(Warning! Do not do these! Trust meeee!)

1. Buy some POS squire off a friend that sounds like ass and hurts to play
2. Because your guitar isn't any fun to play, never practice
3. Put on 14-gauge strings and drop your guitar down to B, then think this sounds "Totally hardcore to the max" and helps make up for what a loser you are
4. Never learn how to tune the guitar properly; instead stumble upon an open tuning and incorrectly assume it's right
5. Never learn how to read tab or how to properly play chords. Instead, learn all the chords wrong by figuring them out by ear on your open-tuned guitar

Congratulations! Now you will never be able to play the guitar properly.

Puce wrote:4. Never learn how to tune the guitar properly; instead stumble upon an open tuning and incorrectly assume it's right

Or just borrow someone else's tuner.

5. Never learn how to read tab or how to properly play chords. Instead, learn all the chords wrong by figuring them out by ear on your open-tuned guitar

Hey! I resent that remark.

Puce wrote: what a loser i am

d00d, what the fuck are you talking about?! you shred.

open tunings were pretty good for keith richards. made him a buttload of money even.

you shred

HaHa, that's f**king awesome!

Puce, my friend/former bandmate uses that *exact* technique, except he has you beat by one point: He's left-handed, and plays right-handed guitars (strung right-handed, so the low E is on the bottom)

I can't even jam with him. It's too hard to figure out what the fuck he's trying to do.

Sven, your friend/former bandmate might just be me.

Puce wrote:Posting in a dead thread!

Guitar Anti-tips:
(Warning! Do not do these! Trust meeee!)

1. Buy some POS squire off a friend that sounds like ass and hurts to play
2. Because your guitar isn't any fun to play, never practice
3. Put on 14-gauge strings and drop your guitar down to B, then think this sounds "Totally hardcore to the max" and helps make up for what a loser you are
4. Never learn how to tune the guitar properly; instead stumble upon an open tuning and incorrectly assume it's right
5. Never learn how to read tab or how to properly play chords. Instead, learn all the chords wrong by figuring them out by ear on your open-tuned guitar

Congratulations! Now you will never be able to play the guitar properly.

Step 6: accidentally re-invent music and become a legend amongst those who frequent the Shroom Fields of Elysiumathematical Hell.

The Sober Irishman wrote:Guitarists are naturally dogmatic as hell, it seems

Puce wrote:(Don't) Never learn how to read tab or how to properly play chords. Instead, learn all the chords wrong by figuring them out by ear on your open-tuned guitar

Guitar is hilariously easy to make pretty sounds on if you feel free to tune it however you want. After screwing around with open tunings, you wonder if the folks who designed EADGBE were just silly sadists. And at first you feel sheepish about the sneers you get from more technique-y players. Then you resent them and think they're snobs. Then you realize that they can actually play a lot of things you can't.

I can't say whether EADGBE is the best tuning for learning on. Seems like EADGCF would make more theoretic sense (and it would be easier to sneer at "standard" players for their relatively open tuning).

My lessons started in 2nd grade, and I spent about a month learning how to hold the guitar and pick, play E-F-G songs on the high E string only. Then a month doing B-C-D-E-F-G songs on the B and E for about a month. And so on. I finally dropped out in 4th grade because it was more fun to strum chords in my Beatles songbook than play "Goodbye Old Paint" over and over. Two years of lessons never got me higher than 5th fret (and even that only for the high A). If the standard tuning was more open, I probably would have skipped lessons altogether. And if it was less open, I probably would have kept taking them 'cause chords would be too hard.

I exclusively use standard tuning now, though sometimes I tune low E to D. But I can't argue with anyone who wants to DADF#AD it: especially a keyboardist who want a little strummy stuff in their home recordings. It's probably good to practice the instrument as it was handed down to us from the wise old generations. But ultimately, do what sounds good; that's what it's for.

- Conform for the comfort and methods that have been developed over the years.
- Experiment for all that the above doesn't answer for you.


I use open tunings for things like:
- alligator clips on multiple strings that create cool clangy chords
- chords of harmonics (5th, 7th, 12th fret madness)
- open resonating chords (by banging on the guitar top or bridge)
- crazy fast strumming so I don't have to think about what the left hand is doing
- screw-driver slide chords

When I can record at home again (thus, with a guitar) I will return to open tunings just for the hell of this thread.

Did Hostess keep a log book so he could remember month-by-month what he did in 2nd grade?

roymond wrote:Did Hostess keep a log book so he could remember month-by-month what he did in 2nd grade?

Didn't everybody? That sounded suspiciously like my experience with piano lessons, although there were also things like learning to read music by the "guess correctly or the mean old nun will get angry" method.

Taught myself guitar, which is why I'm much better at it.

Puce wrote:Never learn how to read tab

Eh??? You don't need to be able to read tab to play guitar. If you come from a piano/keyboard background then using a proper score is going to be far more beneficial so you can see what actual notes you're playing and you don't need the bloody thing on tape to listen to so you can work out how long to play each note.