Audio interfaces

fluffy · Post by **fluffy** » Sun Sep 10, 2006 2:16 pm

Why the heck would your preamp take MIDI input? MIDI is a pure digital control signal which has no audio information at all.

If you want to record its audio output then you'd plug its audio output into an audio input. If you want to record its note data, then you'd plug its MIDI output into a MIDI input. The USB plug probably carries MIDI data, and possibly audio as well. What model is it?

obscurity · Post by **obscurity** » Sun Sep 10, 2006 2:16 pm

Caravan Ray wrote:Quick question:

I just got a big fancy keyboard thing. Actually it's my mother-in-laws, who left it at my house so she can practise piano when she comes visiting.

How do I use it for recoding? It has a USB output. And MIDI.

Is it best to plug it straight into my Mac using the USB - or should I plug it into my pre-amp first using MIDI cable?

You're gonna want to use the usb cable. MIDI only carries information about what to play, not the sound itself. I'm surprised to hear you have a pre-amp that has a MIDI in, I'm not sure what that would be used for - parameter automation perhaps, but what parameters do you need to automate on a preamp? <shrug>

Caravan Ray · Post by **Caravan Ray** » Sun Sep 10, 2006 2:23 pm

obscurity wrote:
Caravan Ray wrote:Quick question:

I just got a big fancy keyboard thing. Actually it's my mother-in-laws, who left it at my house so she can practise piano when she comes visiting.

How do I use it for recoding? It has a USB output. And MIDI.

Is it best to plug it straight into my Mac using the USB - or should I plug it into my pre-amp first using MIDI cable?
You're gonna want to use the usb cable. MIDI only carries information about what to play, not the sound itself. I'm surprised to hear you have a pre-amp that has a MIDI in, I'm not sure what that would be used for - parameter automation perhaps, but what parameters do you need to automate on a preamp? <shrug>

Yes - Tascam 122USB has midi in/midi out - that's why I was confused.

OK - I'll try the straight USB route. I don't have any cables - so I wanted some advice before I bought one or the other

fluffy · Post by **fluffy** » Sun Sep 10, 2006 2:43 pm

Oh. Tascam 122 is both an audio and a MIDI interface which happens to have preamps on it. Going via either the Tascam's MIDI interface or via USB will both be fine. Theoretically if you use the Tascam's MIDI interface then you'll get better audio/MIDI sync but that hasn't been my experience on the 428 so you're probably better off using USB. In practice it shouldn't make a difference either way.

obscurity · Post by **obscurity** » Sun Sep 10, 2006 2:53 pm

fluffy wrote:Oh. Tascam 122 is both an audio and a MIDI interface which happens to have preamps on it. Going via either the Tascam's MIDI interface or via USB will both be fine.

If he connects to the Tascam via it's MIDI interface, surely it's only going to receive the MIDI data and not the actual audio (so he'll miss his amusing farting sounds)? Unless this Tascam 122 is the weirdest piece of kit ever...

fluffy · Post by **fluffy** » Sun Sep 10, 2006 3:33 pm

I'm assuming that the keyboard's USB interface also only puts out MIDI streams. Without more information about the keyboard, who knows. I'm not even sure what he's trying to accomplish, really. Also some recording software doesn't let you just hook up new audio inputs willy-nilly so just hooking it up by USB might not make the audio available even if the USB connection does carry both.

Caravan Ray · Post by **Caravan Ray** » Sun Sep 10, 2006 3:33 pm

Turns out that was a pretty dumb question

Had another look at the back of the keyboard:

Yamaha E403
http://music.yamaha.com/products/featur ... uctId=1212

it doesn't have a MIDI out - it's USB only.

so - err...thanks anyway

fluffy · Post by **fluffy** » Sun Sep 10, 2006 3:35 pm

If you want the audio, hook up the audio out to your Tascam 122, and you'll be able to record it in the usual way.

The USB connection could still have MIDI on it in addition to audio. But the audio would be routed through a different interface if you hook it up by USB.

The easiest way is to just go via the audio out to the audio in on the Tascam and record it like any other instrument.

Caravan Ray · Post by **Caravan Ray** » Sun Sep 10, 2006 3:47 pm

fluffy wrote:If you want the audio, hook up the audio out to your Tascam 122, and you'll be able to record it in the usual way.

The USB connection could still have MIDI on it in addition to audio. But the audio would be routed through a different interface if you hook it up by USB.

The easiest way is to just go via the audio out to the audio in on the Tascam and record it like any other instrument.

I'm more interested in the MIDI stuff than the audio. I have plenty of sounds to use in Garageband - but at the moment I enter them by mouse click - which sucks. I want to use a keyboard to play them.

I fear that this new toy may have way too many knobs on it - thus making it a distraction rather than being of any real productive use. Multiple knobs disturb me - I'm really just a 'one-knob-at-a-time' sort of guy.

fluffy · Post by **fluffy** » Sun Sep 10, 2006 4:17 pm

Okay, in the case of GarageBand, hook it up by USB and restart GB and you'll probably be happy.

roymond · Post by **roymond** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 8:24 am

Bjam wrote:Buy me an audio interface which is small and has dials to turn for levels and holes for me to plug mics in and I will send you my Presonus It's not used much and has been mostly sitting under my desk for a few months.

What I like is that it has four separate inputs, not the XLRs that double as 1/4" ins. And you can save your settings, which seems awesome so that I can have a setup for recording acoustic guitar, then record some vocals, and then come back in two days to record more guitars with the same settings. Can't do that on (most) hardware boxes.

Fluffy, now that you've had it a while, how's it holding up? You mentioned some noise in the headphone outs? I'm thinking of getting one. Does the PowerBook G4 support bus power via firewire?

I scratched the M-Audio MobilePre since it's only 16 bit recording.

fluffy · Post by **fluffy** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 9:06 am

roymond wrote:Fluffy, now that you've had it a while, how's it holding up? You mentioned some noise in the headphone outs? I'm thinking of getting one. Does the PowerBook G4 support bus power via firewire?

I scratched the M-Audio MobilePre since it's only 16 bit recording.

I've been way too busy to work on music. However I found that actually using the wallwart instead of bus power removed the headphone noise, which makes sense since a wallwart can provide a lot more current than a firewire port which means it can also provide +48V phantom power much more cleanly (stepping up DC takes a lot of work and the more current you have the better).

Also the UI for the software mixer is a bit annoying (like Bjam warned about) but the latest version at least has a less-crappy "collapsed" mode which is somewhat tolerable (though I really wish they'd use linear controls... having to move your mouse in a circle to change a volume is dumb). Also the hardware itself is purely class-compliant FireWire, and you don't need to install any actual drivers (at least not on OSX). The mixer app is just a regular "drag it to your hard disk" sort of thing.

All Apples provide bus power via FireWire. That's part of the 6-pin 1394 spec and what makes FireWire FireWire (as opposed to 4-pin 1394, aka i.Link). But I'd recommend using the wallwart whenever possible, especially if you're using the phantom power. Also when it's bus-powered it seems to go into a sleep mode after a few minutes of inactivity, and waking it up is a bit flaky and it loses its settings (another verifiable Bjam complaint).

roymond · Post by **roymond** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 9:11 am

fluffy wrote:However I found that actually using the wallwart instead of bus power removed the headphone noise, which makes sense since a wallwart can provide a lot more current than a firewire port which means it can also provide +48V phantom power much more cleanly (stepping up DC takes a lot of work and the more current you have the better).

Thanks a lot for the feedback. Sucks the interface is so lame. I like how Logic has dials but the control is linear as you mention.

But is the recorded audio affected at all when not using the wallwart (phantom power, etc?)? I'd use it but I'd also want the option without causing problems.

fluffy · Post by **fluffy** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 9:37 am

The recorded audio sounded fine even on bus power. It only seemed to be the headphones which were affected. I prefer to be safe with this stuff and since it's on desktop computer I will always have it on wallwart anyway but bus power should be fine for the actual recording.

fluffy · Post by **fluffy** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 3:13 pm

Helpful note to everyone: The MOTU FastLane is a FUCKING PIECE OF SHIT!!!

Also the Inspire works a lot better if you set CoreAudio to use its clock rather than the system clock (from the Audio/MIDI configuration app).

Caravan Ray · Post by **Caravan Ray** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 3:28 pm

fluffy wrote:If you want the audio, hook up the audio out to your Tascam 122, and you'll be able to record it in the usual way.

The USB connection could still have MIDI on it in addition to audio. But the audio would be routed through a different interface if you hook it up by USB.

The easiest way is to just go via the audio out to the audio in on the Tascam and record it like any other instrument.

OK - well I've sorted the keyboard thing out. Seems I can plug in though the Tascam to get the keyboards sounds - or I can plug in through the USB and it becomes a MIDI controller to use the Garageband sounds. Best of both worlds - I'm very happy.

My "Control Yourself" was recorded entirely with the keyboard (dig the wild one-finger solo)

fluffy · Post by **fluffy** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 3:45 pm

fluffy wrote:The MOTU FastLane is a FUCKING PIECE OF SHIT!!!

Er, I mean, golly gee, it sure would be swell if it wouldn't drop 10% of my events on the floor.

Caravan Ray wrote: OK - well I've sorted the keyboard thing out. Seems I can plug in though the Tascam to get the keyboards sounds - or I can plug in through the USB and it becomes a MIDI controller to use the Garageband sounds. Best of both worlds - I'm very happy.

Makes sense that USB would be MIDI-only. You could probably also plug in both at once if you want to record both audio and MIDI so you can get a duplicate performance in a different instrument or something.

fluffy · Post by **fluffy** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 3:20 am

Okay, the MOTU FastLane is a piece of shit, and according to one of my coworkers, all of their other MIDI interfaces are also pieces of shit. Does anyone know of any external MIDI interfaces which aren't a piece of shit, and which have at least 2 ins and 2 outs? It seems like all the interfaces on the market have at least one of the following fatal flaws:

1x1 (hello I have a keyboard and a drum set and I like being able to output to an external module)
integrated into an all-in-one audio interface
a piece of shit (i.e. is made by MOTU or M-Audio - M-Audio's keyboards are a mixed bag but their dedicated interfaces get consistently bad reviews)
are an internal card (come on USB provides MIDI support as part of the baseline spec! also I have both a laptop and a desktop and neither have PCI slots)

The only interfaces I can find without any of the above problems are extremely expensive 8x8 rackmount units. 2x2 is enough, 4x4 would be nice, but 8x8 is just ridiculous.

Grr.

Steve Durand · Post by **Steve Durand** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 4:52 pm

Have you looked at this one?

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LinkMIDI/

Steve

fluffy · Post by **fluffy** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 5:03 pm

I had not! Do you have any links to any reviews and/or personal experience with it?

Thanks.

Steve Durand · Post by **Steve Durand** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 11:58 pm

Unfortunately I could find no reviews. I have not used it myself.

Steve

roymond · Post by **roymond** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 6:07 pm

fluffy wrote:(though I really wish they'd use linear controls... having to move your mouse in a circle to change a volume is dumb).

I am just now playing with my new Prosonus Inspire 1394. It's frickin awesome. So far, everything I wanted. There's a simple option-click setting to make all nobs use linear control, too! This is so streamlined and clean. I love not having a desk full of power cords and travel will be a breeze. I'll be posting some noise at some point....