The Song Fight Bulletin Board

I'm old. I really don't know what 'nerdcore' is.

I hate songs about video games - but I really loved EPP's "Get a Life" (though I must admit to being a little disappointed when they said it was about a friend, I was thinking that they had invented some sort of imaginary bear character they were singing about, whatever...)

I thought the song was fun, and really well done. And if they brought along 40 or 50 of their mates along to vote - so much the better, they might have had a listen to my song too while they were there.

It is annoying when crap songs are friend-flooded. But that one wasn't a crap song.

fodroy wrote:I am going to start a birdcore rap group.

LL Blue J? Chough Daddy? KRS-Swan? Grand Master Flap and the Feathery Five?

Justincombustion wrote:

starfinger wrote:yes it is retarded. i cringe when people classify some of my songs that way.

-craig

Tardcore?

Tardcore!

Caravan Ray wrote:I'm old ....if they brought along 40 or 50 of their mates along to vote - so much the better, they might have had a listen to my song too while they were there.

TARDCORE!

jack wrote:wait until i bring the "life-metal" (the opposite of death-metal).

life-metal is going to rule.

Pure gold. I like it.

The problem with nerdcore, in my opinion, is that the stuff we hear on SF is just bad rap. Frontalot writes great tunes, has great delivery, regardless of what style he's rapping in.

But most of the stuff nerdcore we hear at SF is canned beats, cheeseball rhymes, poor delivery that lacks emotion or style, you hear microphone pops because they don't know how close to stand, and on and on.

Whenever I hear one of these tunes, I instantly think: "This person can't really like this type of music. If this person truly likes rap, they can't think this is good."

I think it's often an excuse. "I can't make a great rap tune, I'm not quite there yet as far as developing a style, so if I call it nerdcore it won't have to be good."

By all means, rap about video games and programming if you want. But you still need a bit of talent to make it listenable. And for the love of all that is good, DON'T BE AFRAID TO SHOW EMOTION IN YOUR SONG.

Yep. That's what I think.

I wonder how much of what is generally considered to be 'nerdcore' here, wan't intended as such by the "rapper", but because the quality-level was low, and the delivery just like Smalltown described, it gets relegated to that genre.

My real beef with Nerdcore, is that at times it seems to be an excuse for terrible performances that lack emotion, delivery, style and competence. And when the recording is all done, the mix is finalized, and it sucks...well it's ok, cuz it's like, nerdcore.

I guess I'm just crochety about stuff that appears to have little effort put into it. On the other hand, clearly I'm not the audience nerdcore is hittin' with.

jack wrote:wait until i bring the "life-metal" (the opposite of death-metal).

Does it sound like Stryper? Creed? Firehouse?

Smalltown Mike wrote:AFRAID TO SHOW EMOTION...

I'll give you an emotion related to "nerdcore"... it's the one that goes along with "suck it". You're just soooooo nerdcore Smalltown Mike. And I've got the pics to prove it.

thehipcola wrote:My real beef with Nerdcore, is that at times it seems to be an excuse for terrible performances that lack emotion, delivery, style and competence. And when the recording is all done, the mix is finalized, and it sucks...well it's ok, cuz it's like, nerdcore.

How is this unique to nerdcore? Sounds like any newb production in any style. The fact that nerdcore is still somewhat distinctive (meaning there hasn't been that much produced to blend in with the rest of the noise) makes it identifiable, but by no means is bad quality something nerdcore has any kind of lock on.

Rap in general is often criticized along similar lines, with blanket generalizations about the n-word, or hitting their bitch, or gangsta this or that. Even in the 80s rap was diverse enough for anyone who gave it a moment to distinquish between "good" and "bad" ... whatever that means. But I used to do that with country, and opera and metal.

I think had a point to make somewhere, but now it's gone.

Does anyone do gangsta opera?

roymond wrote:How is this unique to nerdcore? Sounds like any newb production in any style.

Good point Roymond, though it seems to me that nerdcore is partially predicated on poor delivery, (maybe it's just steeped in mad style for them) and production. That is to say, almost ALL nerdcore I've heard, (and I concede that outside of SF! I haven't sought it out at all), does not impress me in any way. I say that as a music lover, who's fairly open-minded, and who pretty much enjoys at least something from almost all genres. It's just not so with NC. For me, anyways.

'course, it's all subjective yadda yadda, isn't it? It's possible what I consider to be NC and why I consider it to be that is just plain wrong.

roymond wrote: How is this unique to nerdcore?

I have absolutely no problem with poor quality. My beef is that poor quality often seems to be the point in nerdcore. It seems to be "ha ha ha listen to how bad I'm rapping about computers and video games ha ha ha that's what nerdcore is all about." And that I can't get with.

I think in the case of bad metal or bad rock or bad funk, it's just that we're hearing that artist at that stage of development. I don't see nerdcore rappers getting better because getting better isn't encouraged.

Frontalot is real tight with his delivery and rhymes, and there's creativity in there. In most of the rap I hear on SF, there just seems to be very little effort put in.

I'm not so sure it's a lack of effort as it is a lack of perspective.



And Roymond poo-pooed me. I like that, makes me think he thinks I'm 17.


But then I worry he's actually trying to leverage his position of authority over me so that he can try to get me to go camping with him.



All styles have crap music as much as good music. It seems this conversation is specifically targeting the bad nerdcore on Songfight, and the "good" nerdcore is ... Frontalot?? That's it?

I suppose so, I can't think of any... hmmm there was a few frontalittle songs I enjoyed...

Ok, enough ADHD rambling.


It's the complete lack of perspective that MANY musicians have, wherein they believe that having an idea and some time on their hands is equivalent to good or even great music. It becomes evident when they start defending their work. Sometimes it feels like a 5 year old has brought you a watercolour paint by numbers page ripped from their Sesame Street colouring book and they expect you to call it a Picasso.

Perspective.

Now, it's CERTAINLY possible, and one shouldn't discredit the rather large audience of people who dig nerdcore, and one shouldn't say that ALL nerdcore sucks, on the other hand, just because it's nerdcore doesn't mean it's justified in sucking.

So there.

Leaf wrote:And Roymond poo-pooed me. I like that, makes me think he thinks I'm 17.

But then I worry he's actually trying to leverage his position of authority over me so that he can try to get me to go camping with him.

I'm not sure what I did. How did I poo-poo you? Oh, that "what ever"? That was to the topic not you, Leaf.

As for schemes to go camping...I won't deny

As for your thoughts on nerdcore, I pretty much agree with everything you've said. When listening to SF I generally automatically skip rap and anything that uses computer generated voice. The exceptions are very evident, so I'd say there's a huge devide between the crap rap (people who feel they can attempt rap over simple, annoying, beats) and musicians who get into rap for some reason.

But nerdcore rappers, if we assume the vast majority are not musicians, are simply trying something that they are inspired to try. What's wrong with that? We'll all defend our own efforts, no matter how meager they may be. I haven't heard many (I remember somebody last year) say that what they do is "great" or even "justified". They're just doing it. That's the SF spirit, no?

There are plenty other folks here who started out at that exact place, though they may have been attempting something more "mainstream" as in traditional singer song-writer. And many of them have matured over the years I've been here into pretty damn good artists.

I can't believe this is a legitimate discussion.

sidenote: I'm in love with the new GWAR ranks.

Personally, I think a culture or genre is created, like nerdcore, to give an excuse for how unacceptable it is.
IE:
Dude: That is the worst rap I've ever heard
Nerd: It's nerdcore loser, that's how it's supposed to sound, GOSH!
Dude: Oh, well I stand corrected. That is the worst rap I've ever heard, EVER!

I'm sure that the Pros like Frontalot that have their finger on the pulse of nerdcore get bugged by the masses using the genre as a stage. It could possibly destroy what he's worked hard for.

Pro or amateur, it's a fucking novelty. Not saying there's not a place for it, just saying it's a very cramped place.

Ok, you all (most of you) know that I'm very biased here. But that said:

Yeah yeah whatever.

Even though he's inextricably linked to the "genre" you should leave MC Frontalot out of any dissing. Dude is a MUSICIAN and he writes about what he's interested in whether that's Magic the Gathering or the Bush Administration. The fact that he's not interested in most of what the rap 'establishment" is interested in kind of led him into a different niche.

Most self-professed nerdore artists leave me cold. But not the good MCF. In performance he is entertaining, professional, and makes it hard to contain your enthusiasm. His recordings are slick and interesting. His lyrics/rhymes are intelligent and well-crafted and I like reading them nearly as much as listening to him say them. He does an EXCELLENT JOB in creating his music and deserves about 10x as much success as he has experienced so far.

And he's a good guy who will shake your hand and say "hi" and really mean it.

And he likes puppies.

If you're going to be sick of something, be sick of the pablum peddled by the likes of Dianne Warren. How many more crappy ballads have you heard in your life than crappy "nerdcore" raps? I bet it's not a contest.

In fact, is it this little nerdcore publicity bubble that's up everyone's butt or is it the actual music? If you're gonna hate on something, let's be honest about what we're hating on. We hate it when our friends become successful.

JB

Say, now I'm kind of interested in this discussion.

Is it safe to say that Nerdcore is a 'subclass' of hiphop? (Or rap? Someone explain to the old man what the difference is, and he'll buy you a Moxie.) I think this is currently the case. But I'd be interested* to see the results of those boundaries having been tested. Would a R&B-style slow jam about Galaga be accepted as part of the genre? Could Jim Of Seattle's "Welcome To Windows" actually be a nerdcore piece?

*Theoretically.

WeaselSlayer wrote:Pro or amateur, it's a fucking novelty. Not saying there's not a place for it, just saying it's a very cramped place.

actually, i think this is a very good point here. i've always recognized the "novelty" of the "nerdcore" sub-genre, and i've always felt rather limited by it. i'd certainly give MCF (or Glenn Case even) their fair due for originality and creating quality work in this area.

but the joke, unless it's really pulled off well, seems pretty limiting. i guess for perspective sake, i'd say that "nerdcore", at least for me, might make for a funny and interesting take on something, but it usually doesn't bode well for repeated listens. this is just my humble opinion mind you.

by it's very nature, it is hard to take seriously.

i'm sure the uber-talented MCF probably even feels somewhat stiffled by the personna he's created, and has submitted non-nerdcore stuff to Songfight under a different name.

and if it's crappy quality and production, pointless lyrics, and a bunch of doofuses circle jerking into a mic, i'll think it sucks regardless of the genre.

Off topic, perhaps, but why is Deltron 3030 not considered "nerdcore?"

I think it should be -- rapping about post-apocalyptic sci-fi stuff is pretty damn nerdy.

And even if you don't like Del's music... I would have to think that most folks would at least consider it well done.

Then again, this is Songfight -- we'll argue about anything!

Whassmypoint... sub-genres in music invariably bleed into other things. Saying that "all nerdcore sucks" is as "accurate" as saying "all metal sucks" or "all self-professed singersongwriters suck."

I personally like my hip hop (and all related/subgenres) to be musically interesting, rhythmically interesting, and mind-bogglingly clever.
I will also accept two out of three....and I suppose I will grudgingly accept one out of three.

Whether you're rapping about Commodore 64 shortcuts, poststructuralism, or pimpin' I don't care. If it's smart and has a good groove, I'll dance.

(Incidentally, Front has rapped about all of the above things... though not all in the same song, so far as I know.)

It's definitely a novelty genre and the novelty has worn off for me. It gets less and less novel every time the same person tells the same joke (like MC Hawking, who's stuff got old for me, but unlike MCF, who branched out topic-wise and kept me interested), and it gets even more annoying when a whole bunch of other people start telling that joke a couple years later and saying that I ought to think it's still funny just because it's nerdcore, particularly when their rhymes and beats are unoriginal and mediocre. Being nerdcore doesn't add 50 XP to your song or improve it in any other way (although apparently it does add +50 votes to your song in a SongFight!, ha ha). Because of that and the fact that rap on SongFight! is generally pretty terrible I now have serious genre bias against nerdcore. A nerdcore song will have to be really freaking good for me not to just write it off.

Lunkhead wrote:Being nerdcore doesn't add 50 XP to your song or improve it in any other way (although apparently it does add +50 votes to your song in a SongFight!, ha ha).

I love it how any nerdcore discussion ends up revolving around "MC Frontalot". He must the the king nerdcore artist in the world. HAS to be....the only one worth listening to? But nerdcore did so well at Songfight! Why doesn't it add 50 damage points to your Nicol Bolas card and give you advance to the next level or a few health points at least? Damnit.

But this is my kicker, and defense of nerdcore, even though it's one of my least fav styles:

I always got a kick out of the nerdcore idea as an answer to thug gangsta rap, suggesting, "let's take this thing that was all about shooting people, hating people, being a f'n tough guy, and make fun of it." And the more I think about it in that context, the more I like nerdcore.

Ever notice how serious and "tough" gangsta rappers are?And how NOT serious and NOT tough nerdcore rappers are?