The Song Fight Bulletin Board

Newer systems are able to deal with varrying bit rates within the same project. Final Cut Pro is doing this with video now and Avid is as well. Within limits, of course, but really helpful especially in production and post production. They either convert upon import, or use a proxy.

This will trickle down to less expensive systems soon enough.

roymond wrote:Who here records without a sync track? Or, who records outside the confines of a constant beat? Did this breath of life fade when digital recording hit?

Most of my songs have programmed drums. Because they're programmed, they're inherently on the beat. I usually just record those, and then record everything else (guitar, bass, keys) while listening to them.

Sometimes I also program a MIDI bassline, just to guide the other instruments, and then either throw it away altogether or bury it in the mix. On "sugar shaker" it's actually kept as the bassline in the final song.

Any time I go "GnG" (or something like it), I just lay down the guitar with no click track or metronome or anything, and then record the vocals over it while listening to it. For instance, "Pink Ribbon".

Interesting stuff. Funny Mostess brought up Strawberry Fields - I've been obsessing over the various takes off the Anthology album. I'd never heard them before, and I was amazed at how 'sketchy' their process was for recording the albums from that era. Of course, I drew connections to the way I record stuff too.

Big difference being able to play, and being able to record in a DAW. I have next to no skills as a player, but I have musical ideas which are very easy to capture on the computer. It allows me to flail about and work out melodies without having it all worked out in my head before. It seems like midi has helped teach me something about music, even with my utter lack of discipline.

That said, and due to single inputs and latency, I always play some midi instrument (usually drums and/or bass) to the click, and quantize them to compensate for some of the latency drag. It's like auto-skillz.

Then, for the audio tracks (guitar and vocals) I have a tight groove to jam with. Unfortunately, you can't really quantize audio...so I practice parts over and over until I wear out. The DAW I use records takes, so I choose the one that I think is best. That one is still usually pretty bad, so once I've completed the basic composition, I'll try to sing in one long take over the whole song.

By this time, I've run out of time from screwing around with the software so much, and wishing I had spent the time practicing so I could just play better.

Not to change the subject, but check out Melodyne, which can quantize audio...
-bill

Holy crap. I've been struggling to make a trial version of autotune work with no results, so I just checked out Melodyne. Holy crap. One quick test run, and I made a mess on my computer Thanks for the suggestion.
Melodyne is the best piece of software ever to hit less-than-talented people.

Yeah, Melodyne kicks autotune's ass. Glad to help!
-bill

I've never used auto tuning and I'm afraid to start because I'll just get carried away. So I'm sorry, but you'll all just have to accept my vox as they are.

Mostess wrote:

roymond wrote:Who here records without a sync track? Or, who records outside the confines of a constant beat? Did this breath of life fade when digital recording hit?

My advice:

1) Plan ahead. Make a list of the tracks you'll add in the order you'll add them.

2) Split stuff up. If you can't play the whole guitar lick without goofing up, just play the first part, then rest. Record all the second parts of the lick on a different track. Same for vocals: one verse at a time.

3) Don't record anything you don't want in the song. Keep your metronome, foot taps, countdowns, throat clearings, tuning checks, etc. off the recording. That's all work you'll have to do later cleaning it up. Sometimes it's impossible.

4) As soon as you record something, listen to it all the way through in silence to make sure you like it. Reserve the right to delete a track because of some minor flaw (though it's usually smart to keep a hard-to-do, though substandard full take around just in case you can't manage to do it again)

5) Don't save work for mixing/mastering. Don't say "I'll piece these together at mix time" or "I'll just record this once and then make it a looping sample" or "double-schmouble, just add flange". Do the work at recording time and everyone (listener included) is happier.

6) If you don't practice, it will take 6 hours to record a 3 minute song. If you practice for 1 hour, it will take 3 hours to record the 3 minute song. If you practice for 2 hours, it will take 30 minutes to record a 3 minute song. Practicing saves time. Do it.

That sounds like almost the exact opposite to what I do.

Obviously, one of us have absolutely no idea what we are doing!

Sometimes I may come to start a song with it almost fully formed in my head - but rarely (Ottoman was an example). Generally, I start with an idea of a story or a theme. Then I pick a pre-made beat and tempo more or less at random - start it up and just start playing. I usually do maybe a small riff first - loop it - then start working on lyric ideas, just a line or two at a time. I like to find a good opening line, and then usually a singalong chorus line.

After an hour or so - some primitive song-like creature may evolve. Then beginsing the iterative process of putting it on my mp3 player/CD and listeneing on the train or in the car as I go. As I listen passively - more ideas come. Next day more recoding - more listening on CD (assuming I have the luxury of time of course)

I never rehearse anything. Often I don't even write down lyrics. I just sing a few lines at a time - over and over again - until I come up with a melody I like.

2 of my favourite songs, The Sugar Shaker and Rhymes with Lucia were very much "make it up I go along" - and the results just sound like something I could never have pre-planned. That is what I really find fun about writing/recording. Becasue I am not a particularly competent musician - I really have no idea what my song will sound like until I actually finish it

Caravan Ray wrote:I never rehearse anything.

...

2 of my favourite songs, The Sugar Shaker and Rhymes with Lucia were very much "make it up I go along" - and the results just sound like something I could never have pre-planned. That is what I really find fun about writing/recording. Becasue I am not a particularly competent musician - I really have no idea what my song will sound like until I actually finish it

Very few people can pull that off. If it works for you, that's pretty cool, since there's no way I'd be able to use that method. For beginner musicians, I think Mostess' advice is far more sound. To beginners I would say this - know what you're going to play before you play it, otherwise you'll end up with a big jumbled mess with no flow from beginning to end.

I want to say thanks for all the advice given in this thread.

Back to practicing!

jolly roger wrote:

Caravan Ray wrote:I never rehearse anything.

...

2 of my favourite songs, The Sugar Shaker and Rhymes with Lucia were very much "make it up I go along" - and the results just sound like something I could never have pre-planned. That is what I really find fun about writing/recording. Becasue I am not a particularly competent musician - I really have no idea what my song will sound like until I actually finish it

Very few people can pull that off. If it works for you, that's pretty cool, since there's no way I'd be able to use that method. For beginner musicians, I think Mostess' advice is far more sound. To beginners I would say this - know what you're going to play before you play it, otherwise you'll end up with a big jumbled mess with no flow from beginning to end.

I wasn't saying the songs come out like that as I make them up. It is all trial and error and endless trying things that don't work. My method is highly inefficient - but it is fun (for me). Obviously HoMo's advice is very sound - but I know that personally I would get bored rehearsing before recording. I like to see the song emerge from chaos.

I'm sure that my methods wouln'd suit everyone - but it is another way of doing things, especially for the beginner. As I mentioned before - as a musician, I am at best a barely competent guitarist/bassist. I have a lot of trouble playing songs all the way through. Those who have seen me live know that I am strictly 3 chords only on stage. I rely a lot on playing licks, then looping them, and doing one-finger melodies on a keyboard. An average 3 minute song of mine will usually contain only about 40 seconds of actual playing! Another trick that Tex Beaumont uses extensively is lots of bah-bah-bahs and do-do-dos. It helps cover up my instrumental shortcomings.

As with all previous threads with rules and advice: each song is different as is each songwriter. Use what's appropriate at any given time. Change things up to kick start your creativity. Plan when the song presents itself and you have the structure and when the arrangement calls for it. Wing it when that's what's driving things. Lay down solid backing tracks then loose it with the vocals, or lay down whacky textures and layer sustained vocal arrangements over the top.

No method is best. None should be your only one. It's all good.