The Song Fight Bulletin Board

Okay, if pressed for a lyric of mine that I like:

How can you tell me what to do
If I am dead I will not see things through
What you want isn't easy done or said
I'd like to see you run faster

(from 'run faster' of course)

Lord of Oats wrote:my analysis of pop music has lead me to one ultimate conclusion:

LYRICS DON'T MATTER. AT ALL.

Gah, there's not a single thing that "matters" in pop music, not in the way that pine nuts matter in pesto or that blood type matters in a transfusion. Lyrics are not any less important than anything else.

erik wrote:

Lord of Oats wrote:my analysis of pop music has lead me to one ultimate conclusion:

LYRICS DON'T MATTER. AT ALL.

Gah, there's not a single thing that "matters" in pop music, not in the way that pine nuts matter in pesto or that blood type matters in a transfusion. Lyrics are not any less important than anything else.

Pine nuts matter in pesto? Pff...pine nuts are the fifth ingredient, and they know it! I've made a fine pesto without them. Now take away basil, garlic, olive oil, or cheese, and you're in trouble. Of course, some people like to try to get clever and use something else in place of basil. That's almost blasphemy, but new things don't get created by us sticking to formulas. It's a mixed bag. But, uh, pff...I don't care. Art is art. Art is anything made by an artist. Cooking and music are art. So whatever. People can do what they want.

But lyrics are pine nuts, and no, neither one matters. I'm not saying I don't strive to write the best lyrics I can, or to keep pine nuts on hand, because they are a key player, but damn, they're expensive. Most people will not notice when you leave the pine nuts out, and most people do not know good lyrics from bad. The irony is that the lyrics are probably all that a lot of listeners pay attention to, considering how musically retarded the mass audience is. As an objective evaluator of art, I consider lyrics as important as any other aspect of a song. But basically, if you look at the billboard charts, whoever has been writing the songs has been giving lyrics the finger for many years.

Also, you can use walnuts instead.

fluffy wrote:Also, you can use walnuts instead.

Excellent point. Walnuts are one of the only significant dietary sources of omega-3 fatty acids, the primary famous ones being fish and flax seeds. Plus, there's a ton of other good stuff in there. Oh, and they're delicious. Not the exact same flavor, obviously, but I can spring for cheaper and healthier, any day.

Now what the hell does this mean in terms of the analogy?! What are you going to substitute for lyrics?

Like I sort of implied earlier, listen for my "Baby, Be Quiet."

Please feel free to ignore my original point since I don't have pesto ingredients ranked properly in order of importance.

Well I took your point to mean that lyrics are just as important in pop music as the rest of it, which is to say that it's not important at all.

The blood transfusion comparison does kind of throw it off, though.

Some further thoughts:

I'm seeing instrumentals as a pesto where you just left out the nuts. A substitute for lyrics might be vocalization. I'm thinking of Rabid Garfunkel's HOMBH entry. That's still a tasty pesto. We got just a hint of pine nuts at the end. But if we're at the point where that's considered a pop song, something may be wrong. But then...what is spoken word? Maybe that's like pine nuts, but no garlic. Anyone feel free to add input, but my analogical reasoning capabilities are being exhausted quickly. Opinions of pesto are obviously going to vary, quite a bit.

Let's go with the blood transfusion idea. Erik, you're absolutely right. No one is going to die without the proper lyrics. There are many instances when you won't even use lyrics, and many instances where you don't need a blood transfusion. But it'd still be nice to get them to match up with the music, wouldn't it?

I can just imagine you stroking your beard contentedly. WELL PLAYED, GOOD SIR.

Who told you I had a beard?!

I regret using analogies at all. It was an attempt to make my point clearer, not talk about blood or food. I don't know what you are talking about now. My original point was that there is nothing in pop music that is essential, and to single out lyrics as not mattering implies that something else *does* matter, which is misleading. You can have a great song without good lyrics, but you can also have a good song without lots of positive things that would improve a song.

I personally place a high value on lyrical content in my pop songs. I love lyrics! It's much easier for me to relate to music with lyrics than without.

This is certainly because I am a philistine.

Anyhoo, in an attempt to get this thread back on track, here's s'more lyrics:

Deliver us from deliverance --
I'm not cut out for the holy
Only one among the many pennies.
Do you think so poor of me?
Poor me --
With my head full of wings and quilted night
I'm looking for a fight
And a remedy for spite.

I don't know that I ever gave that song a title actually.

jimtyrrell wrote:I'm runnin' out of money so I'm sellin' the Jetta
Another couple months and maybe things'll get better
But for now I wear a zero like a Scarlet Letter
Like the lady in the story by Nathaniel whatever

-Red Zero

This is awesome!

As an act of attrition, my worst lyric ever might have to be:

Her face was a garden, her body was silk
And both of her eyes made of chocolate milk
I wanted to taste her but I had a fear
That she'd shed a chocolate tear

I prefer to replace pine nuts in my songs with the word fuck when ever possible. It adds more flavor and is much less expensive than walnuts, plus it's fat free and great for stress relief.

erik wrote:I regret using analogies at all. It was an attempt to make my point clearer, not talk about blood or food. I don't know what you are talking about now. My original point was that there is nothing in pop music that is essential, and to single out lyrics as not mattering implies that something else *does* matter, which is misleading. You can have a great song without good lyrics, but you can also have a good song without lots of positive things that would improve a song.

I somewhat regret arguing with your point (if that's what I was doing). It was indeed a valid one. Allow me to attempt an analogy. I think pop music is like soup. I can leave or omit any ingredient, except water, and you still can't tell me I haven't made soup. Saying that lyrics don't matter may have certain overtones I didn't mean for it to have. Lyrics are maybe like potatoes. Lots of soups have them, and lots don't. And many have really low-quality potatoes, because they're going to be cooked for quite a while, maybe even puréed, and they'll be in there with lots of other ingredients, so they're incredibly easy to slip past the casual listener/diner.

In any case, I can't totally agree that lyrics are equally important with everything else. I'm not sure how clearly I expressed this earlier. There's a lot of freedom given to a pop lyricist not given to a pop composer. I think being musically listenable is probably far more important than good lyrics, whatever good is. Pop music has to be musically sound and friendly, way before it has to be poetically sound. Listening to the radio, you can find music with terse rhymes, stress all over the wrong words, or offensive or blatantly stupid messages, much more easily than you can find a single song based on a whole tone or diminished scale, or even more obscure, an atonal piece. Having a clear tonal center is a very specific thing that is absolutely demanded in a piece of pop music. Lyrics in any certain style or covering any certain subject matter are certainly not expected.

anti-m wrote:I am a philistine.

Philistine?

I think the best lyrics I came up with was for Up All Night and since it was one of the songs that got covered a long time ago during that Hxaro I'd say other ppl would agree. Here is the first half of the song (second half is more popish and gimmicky).


You are my sunshine
Shield me from darkness
I'm always with you
No where else I'd be

I just want to hold onto you
Never ever let go hunny
I don't want to leave yet
So I'm staying all night

You want us to take it slow
But I just can't help it hunny
I don't want to leave yet
So I'm staying all night

You are my true love
Make the world feel right
Outside is much pain
Just let me kiss you

Let my lips show you tonight
This is where we ought to be
I don't want to leave yet
So I'm staying all night

Why fight this joy anymore
I love you and you love me
I don't want to leave yet
So I'm staying all night

Billy's Little Trip wrote:

anti-m wrote:I am a philistine.

Philistine?

GROOOOAAAN!

I seem to be stuck in some kind of lame joke mode. I get this way when something is bothering me, but I don't know what it is.

With that said. Hey Rone, didn't you read the first post in this thread? I'd hate think of how much bandwidth you would have used if you "didn't" try to keep it down to a couple lines.

Actually, that just sounds like something Erik would say, lol.

I tried to answer this question, but I don't usually masturbate in front of other people so I got nervous. Instead I want to say that none of us are on the billboard charts and therefore if your lyrics suck, I do not like you or your music.