The Song Fight Bulletin Board

For what it's worth, I always get a little sick to my stomach when I consider how much people in my profession (software engineer) get paid compared to people in important professions (teacher, police, etc.), especially when here in San Francisco you can make $60K (a pretty decent salary most places) and have trouble affording basic necessities - and teachers often don't make even that much. Thinking about wealth distribution in this country tends to make me think if there's some way communism could actually work.

I hate when people look at the education crisis and think that because schools are failing, teachers don't deserve pay raises. (Hello, maybe the low pay for teachers is why schools are failing!)

Also, back to why I posted that question to begin with: I love what I do, but there's absolutely no reason it needs to be treated like a critical and-of-the-world-if-this-doesn't-get-done thing. I'm not writing software that will prevent the collapse of government, or even anything that's going into a real product yet. Other groups within the company are anxious to get access to our software, though, and so this has led to a lot of pressure to deliver by A Certain Date when all that we had when that date was set was a prototype which runs in an entirely different environment than what they need it on. And, I was hired as a software architect, but instead I'm running boring and slow tests and being constantly pinged for results and having to test other peoples' quick hacks while not getting a chance to actually do my actual job (which is to engineer the version of the system which will actually run on the target platform). It's a stupid situation that I keep getting into.

And, which I'm running late for. Ugh.

erik wrote:It's weird to consider that anyone would average their vacation time into their answer to the question "How much do you work a week?"

Especially when most peoples' vacation time is stated in terms of the number of work hours it replaces to begin with.

Röss wrote:I have no complaints about being underpaid or overworked. I love my job.

I'm not surprised. Clock on at 9 - home by 3:30. Use the same lesson plan year in, year out and 12 weeks paid holiday a year. Pretty sweet deal if you ask me.

Of course, I'm thinking of Australian teachers. I guess that US (and Finnish) teachers would need more money because of the extra armed combat training they need to do. Having heavily armed children in the classroom with you would add an extra element of stress to the job.

fluffy wrote: I hate when people look at...education... and think that because schools are failing, teachers don't deserve pay raises. (Hello, maybe the low pay for teachers is why schools are failing!)

I agree with that completely. I'm not trying to bash teachers - I just love how they always try to justify their long holidays with the old "but we do a lot of work outside regular hours...." argument. Like other professions don't do that?!? (not that Ross actually said that anyway - but why ruin a good arguement with facts?)

erik wrote:It's weird to consider that anyone would average their vacation time into their answer to the question "How much do you work a week?"

Bob: "So, how many hours a week do you work?"
Bill: "I work 55 hours a week."
Bob: "Excuse me? I think you mean 52.88 hours a week, aren't you forgetting your TWO WEEK VACATION?!?!?!?!?"

No it isn't. I don't know what your industrial relation system is like, but when the vast majority of workers receive 10 days paid leave a year but one particular profession rececives 50 days paid leave a year - it is a valid consideration.

©aravan®ay wrote:I'm not trying to bash teachers - I just love how they always try to justify their long holidays with the old "but we do a lot of work outside regular hours...." argument.

I've never heard any teachers say that. My dad and many teachers I know personally have never expressed it. You've obviously had a difficult time with the concept of the school year. Feel free to post irrational thoughts here to try and work out your issues on the subject. Oh, you already have

I'd assume teachers, being government employees, probably do pretty well in such a pinko commie state as California. But I'd like to stress, once again, that teachers, at least in Florida, do not receive a paid holiday. Teachers are paid an hourly rate.

©aravan®ay wrote:

Röss wrote:I have no complaints about being underpaid or overworked. I love my job.

I'm not surprised. Clock on at 9 - home by 3:30. Use the same lesson plan year in, year out and 12 weeks paid holiday a year. Pretty sweet deal if you ask me.

Of course, I'm thinking of Australian teachers. I guess that US (and Finnish) teachers would need more money because of the extra armed combat training they need to do. Having heavily armed children in the classroom with you would add an extra element of stress to the job.

Well, you'd also be talking about teachers that "clock on at 9, are home by 3:30 and use the same lesson plan year in and year out." If you're trying to imply I don't work hard - you're wrong (by which I don't mean that I think I work harder than you. I also think my job carries a fair amount of responsibility, I have other people's children and their brains in my care every day - I know what I expect of those who care for my child.

Do I get paid well? Sure, with two incomes my wife and I can own a house, cars, live in a decent neighborhood. Do other professionals that require equivalent academic preparation get paid more than me - on average, yes. But I don't do this for the money, that's my point of saying I don't have complaints, I love teaching because I love teaching, not because I love time off.

AS far as Oats' post. I'd be very surprised if teachers are getting paid hourly - as far as I know teaching is generally a salaried position. I get paid for 10 months of work each year. This includes 3 weeks of vacation. I do not get paid during summer vacation, I save from my income the rest of the year in order to have money during that time.

Greetings from pinko Orange County California.

Lord of Oats wrote:I'd assume teachers, being government employees, probably do pretty well in such a pinko commie state as California. But I'd like to stress, once again, that teachers, at least in Florida, do not receive a paid holiday. Teachers are paid an hourly rate.

WTF?!?! Teachers don't get paid leave?! That is crazy! Who would be a teacher under those conditions?

Röss wrote: I get paid for 10 months of work each year. This includes 3 weeks of vacation. I do not get paid during summer vacation, I save from my income the rest of the year in order to have money during that time.

That sucks. Move to Australia, dude. You are totally being ripped off.

Röymond wrote: You've obviously had a difficult time with the concept of the school year.

Yes - that is the problem here I think. We're talking different award conditions here

Röymond wrote: Feel free to post irrational thoughts here

If a human and a bonobo have sex - will they produce an infertile offspring? Er...a friend of mine wants to know.

©aravan®ay wrote:

erik wrote:It's weird to consider that anyone would average their vacation time into their answer to the question "How much do you work a week?"

Bob: "So, how many hours a week do you work?"
Bill: "I work 55 hours a week."
Bob: "Excuse me? I think you mean 52.88 hours a week, aren't you forgetting your TWO WEEK VACATION?!?!?!?!?"

No it isn't. I don't know what your industrial relation system is like, but when the vast majority of workers receive 10 days paid leave a year but one particular profession rececives 50 days paid leave a year - it is a valid consideration.

Is it a valid consideration? Sure. But when someone asks "How many hours do you work a week" they're not asking about vacation time. They're asking about how many hours you have to spend (paid or not) working on things related to your job during the weeks that you are not on vacation.

I'm going to school right now, quite possibly to become a teacher. It's cool to hear this info (even if it really wasn't meant for me). Thanks.

©aravan®ay wrote:If a human and a bonobo have sex - will they produce an infertile offspring?

A hobo!

©aravan®ay wrote:If a human and a bonobo have sex - will they produce an infertile offspring? Er...a friend of mine wants to know.

You know, I've wondered about this, too.

Lord of Oats wrote:

©aravan®ay wrote:If a human and a bonobo have sex - will they produce an infertile offspring? Er...a friend of mine wants to know.

You know, I've wondered about this, too.

Yeah - we're all wondering. If you ask me - teachers should spend a bit less time farting about on holidays and a bit more time teaching kiddies the important stuff, like inter-primate procreation.

©aravan®ay wrote:

Lord of Oats wrote:

©aravan®ay wrote:If a human and a bonobo have sex - will they produce an infertile offspring? Er...a friend of mine wants to know.

You know, I've wondered about this, too.

Yeah - we're all wondering. If you ask me - teachers should spend a bit less time farting about on holidays and a bit more time teaching kiddies the important stuff, like inter-primate procreation.

Yeah, it's total shit. You take advanced biology and they teach you all about ligers and mules, and you ask about theoretical primate hybrids and everybody looks at you like you're some kind of freak.

Off-topic, did you know about when Peter Gabriel jammed with bonobos?

Teachers:
My Dad's (excluding my Dad) side of the family are all teachers or in the education field. Everywhere from my cousins that are teachers, to my uncle that is the assistant superintendent in Burbank CA.
#1. I've never met a teacher that doesn't live a good comfortable life.
#2. Teachers are smart and seem to manage their money very well.
#3. Every teacher I know became a teacher for the love of educating and would be a teacher no matter what they were paid.

Now, as far as better pay for teachers:
This came from my aunt years ago, she is a high school Principle now. "money is the root of all evil. If teachers were highly paid like those in the private sector, they would be more concerned with their money than the reason that they became an educator in the first place. More concern needs to be put in the educational tools for teachers to properly do their jobs, ei: books, less students per class room, after school programs, etc." this is not an exact quote, because I can't remember it word for word.
Bottom line. She's not concerned with her pay, but is concerned about the lack of concern for our education system.

If you ask a bunch of teachers who have been teaching for ever (and get paid accordingly) if they love teaching and would do it no matter what, you will get very different answers than if you ask a bunch of new teachers who don't get paid very well if they love it and would do it no matter what. Keeping teachers wages at a certain level to attract only altruistic people is bad. We shouldn't strive for altruistic teachers, we should strive for good ones. Will paying teachers more money attract better teachers? Maybe, maybe not, but to say "But then they'll only care about the money!!!" line of reasoning is hollow. Doctors get paid out the ass, and there are some that get into the profession for money, and others who get into the profession for personal satisfaction. When I go into the operating room, I don't care why my doctor went to med school. I care if he can make me not sick anymore.

Speaking as an ex-teacher who is awful with money, however, I think that your aunt is dead right in that changing things about the way classrooms are set up and run would do lots more for attracting good teachers and job satisfaction than simply raising salaries and raising expectations for teachers but not spending money to change things that might give students a better chance to learn.

Well, there will always be the good and bad. If I compared the ethics of the teachers I know compared to the Doctors I know, honest caring from teachers is much higher. It could also be the area that I live, but Doctors I have dealt with in my business, care more about their money than anyones wellbeing. Doctors are more like used car salesmen trying to sell you something that you don't need, to line their pockets. Yes, I have trust issues, lol.

Hey BLT, here's a chance for you to do a little extra un-paid overtime!

The pump on my pool filter isn't working. Any ideas for me?

The pump is running OK - but it won't suck. I filled up the inspection chamber on the suction side of the pump with water - but when I flick the power on - the pump goes whrrrrrr - but there is no suckage.

It's getting really hot here and the pool is going green. I need help.

©aravan®ay wrote:the pump goes whrrrrrr - but there is no suckage.

Are you sure you don't need a sex therapist?

Röss wrote:

©aravan®ay wrote:the pump goes whrrrrrr - but there is no suckage.

Are you sure you don't need a sex therapist?

I have half a dozen highly-trained sex therapists all oiled up and waiting in the spa. We all want the pump to work.

©aravan®ay wrote:Hey BLT, here's a chance for you to do a little extra un-paid overtime!

The pump on my pool filter isn't working. Any ideas for me?

The pump is running OK - but it won't suck. I filled up the inspection chamber on the suction side of the pump with water - but when I flick the power on - the pump goes whrrrrrr - but there is no suckage.

It's getting really hot here and the pool is going green. I need help.

inspection chamber How cute is that?

First off, it would help me if I knew what lead up to this problem. IE: It was working fine until I _________? Also, the make.

#1. Make sure that the "pump pot" lid o-ring is in place. If it is a newer style plastic pump, they fall off when you open the lid. The pump will not get a prime if the lid o-ring is bad, missing or not in it's seat.
#2. Make sure there are no cracks in the lid if it is a plastic lid. The pump will not gain a prime with a suction leak.
#3. Does your pump pot basket have a crack, or was it put in wrong on the last cleaning? Newer style pumps have closed faced impellers, so if leaves and debris get past the basket and get stuck in the impeller, it can't move water. Do you have pine trees? Does Australia have pine trees?
#4. Could the suction line be plugged up between the skimmer and the pump?
#5. Are there any valves in front of the pump. IE: Does this pump operate a pool/spa combo? If there is a valve, again, bad o_rings can cause a suction leak.
#6. Did the pump run dry for any long period of time? If so, the threaded MIP nipple that plumbs in to the suction port of the pump could have warped or lost it's seal from over heating.

Tell me which of the above six fits best, or give me more details, and I'll tell you best how to trouble shoot the problem and fix it.
Also, I didn't ask if the breaker is tripping after a minute of running, because I figured you would have mentioned that.

Billy's Little Trip wrote:

©aravan®ay wrote:Hey BLT, here's a chance for you to do a little extra un-paid overtime!

The pump on my pool filter isn't working. Any ideas for me?

The pump is running OK - but it won't suck. I filled up the inspection chamber on the suction side of the pump with water - but when I flick the power on - the pump goes whrrrrrr - but there is no suckage.

It's getting really hot here and the pool is going green. I need help.

inspection chamber How cute is that?

First off, it would help me if I knew what lead up to this problem. IE: It was working fine until I _________? Also, the make.

I had one of those filter sock-bag thingys on the skimmer box basket. It got sucked off the basket and disappeared. I was slightly concerned. About 2 weeks later - the sock appeared in the pump pot basket. I was happy. Everything was still working fine. I took the sock out of the pump pot - everything fine. Then I emptied the skimmer box basket which was very full. Pump went whhhrrrr again - but no more suck-suck.

I have a Poolrite CL110 filter - not sure what make the pump is. I've been having problems all year with my filter - cartridges suck. I had thousands of cane toad tadpoles in the pool at the end of winter - they clogged up the cartridge. And from other threads, you may recall we are in serious drought water restrictions - so hosing out our filters is a no-no.

#1. Make sure that the "pump pot" lid o-ring is in place. If it is a newer style plastic pump, they fall off when you open the lid. The pump will not get a prime if the lid o-ring is bad, missing or not in it's seat.
Yes it's there - but it might be dirty - I'll check that

#2. Make sure there are no cracks in the lid if it is a plastic lid. The pump will not gain a prime with a suction leak.
No cracks in the lid - but there is a bit of a chunk out of the O ring seat - that may be a problem - but it isn't the initial problem cos I broke that while I was trying to fix the initial problem by cleaning the O ring as you suggest in 1.


#3. Does your pump pot basket have a crack, or was it put in wrong on the last cleaning? Newer style pumps have closed faced impellers, so if leaves and debris get past the basket and get stuck in the impeller, it can't move water. Do you have pine trees? Does Australia have pine trees?
Trees in the Araacaria genus are called pines - but are not related to northern hemisphere pine trees - but dont get me started on that right now - suffice to say, there are none in my backyard


#4. Could the suction line be plugged up between the skimmer and the pump?
Could be. That was my initial diagnosis - but I figured if there was a blockage, then the pump-pot (whats wrong with "inspection chamber"?)would empty - then suck air.


#5. Are there any valves in front of the pump. IE: Does this pump operate a pool/spa combo? If there is a valve, again, bad o_rings can cause a suction leak.
No
#6. Did the pump run dry for any long period of time? If so, the threaded MIP nipple that plumbs in to the suction port of the pump could have warped or lost it's seal from over heating.
No - don't think so

Tell me which of the above six fits best, or give me more details, and I'll tell you best how to trouble shoot the problem and fix it.
Also, I didn't ask if the breaker is tripping after a minute of running, because I figured you would have mentioned that.

I guess #4 the suction line blockage is the most likely problem. How can I confirm that is the problem?

Otherwise - it could be #3.

I also wouldn't be surprised if #2 was also a problem - but it isn't the original problem

(BTW: I have called my local pool dude - but in the spirit of this thread, I've been working too many hours recently to take time off to meet them at my house to get it fixed - if only were a teacher! - I could knock off at 3pm and get this fixed )